Here's the thing

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I like those examples, but not ones I have read. I have a library of books all of which follow the principles of fish keeping as we know it today, but without the gizzmos.

That's my 'skeleton' analogy.

 

[itiwhetu]

Why don't you share your insight for those of us who don't know anything from 40 years ago? Give some examples of what we could do instead of buying something

A couple of things.

Use natural gravel. Not some colored sand or gravel that you buy in a plastic bag from a shop.
Build stands and tanks. Don't buy mass produced items. Make a tank and a stand fit for purpose.
Design your own lighting units that can have a selection of tubes that give off the correct light quality for your plants.
Build your own under gravel filters and then understand why they work so well.
Breed fish and grow plants and exchange them with other hobbyists. Not for money but because it feels good.
Play with your mechanical filters, use different natural mediums in them that can alter your pH and hardness for the benefit of your fish.

Just a couple of things to think about.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Discarding the old principles we now know to be nonsense and focussing on those that have stood the test of time;
Water is key.
Match the fish to the water...don't waste money on the many products that allow you to keep fish that wouldn't survive in your current water chemistry.
Cycle the tank properly and maintain it. Don't waste money on ammonia/nitrate removers.
I'll stick to my preference for a little added mineral content, but that's very cheap and I'll stick with a good water conditioner, which'll save me money in the longer term, (see cycling comment above).
Stocking is also key.
Match the fish to the water, etc..
Do not overstock.
Pay attention to the whole ecosystem (including live plants) and not just a smaller part of it.

By following these two key principles, you may never need to spend money on expensive treatments and water-changing chemicals.
You needn't spend money on replacement plants and fish.

Money can also be saved by keeping it natural.
None of the old books were keen on 'toys' in the tank, nor on brightly coloured artificiality.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

A couple of things.

Use natural gravel. Not some colored sand or gravel that you buy in a plastic bag from a shop.
Build stands and tanks. Don't buy mass produced items. Make a tank and a stand fit for purpose.
Design your own lighting units that can have a selection of tubes that give off the correct light quality for your plants.
Build your own under gravel filters and then understand why they work so well.
Breed fish and grow plants and exchange them with other hobbyists. Not for money but because it feels good.
Play with your mechanical filters, use different natural mediums in them that can alter your pH and hardness for the benefit of your fish.

Just a couple of things to think about.

I can go with all of those apart from the lights. Tubes are less available than they used to be and getting the right spectrums is even more problematic than it used to be in the 80s. Tubes never lasted long enough and if the starter unit went, then that was a major expense...unless you were trained in the Dark Arts of Electricity.
Whilst I don't need the gimmicks of thunderstorms and cloudy days, I do appreciate being able to emulate sunrise and sunset and adjust the spectrums according to my plants.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

A couple of things.

Use natural gravel. Not some colored sand or gravel that you buy in a plastic bag from a shop.
Build stands and tanks. Don't buy mass produced items. Make a tank and a stand fit for purpose.
Design your own lighting units that can have a selection of tubes that give off the correct light quality for your plants.
Build your own under gravel filters and then understand why they work so well.
Breed fish and grow plants and exchange them with other hobbyists. Not for money but because it feels good.
Play with your mechanical filters, use different natural mediums in them that can alter your pH and hardness for the benefit of your fish.

Just a couple of things to think about.

All good ideas

However...the time it takes to research and carry out or build all of those things is often too much time (unless you are retired) and in this day and age there is an attraction for the "ready made" and "plug in and play" cos many people have neither the time, patience or ability to do as you suggest in the post.

Fifty years ago the world was alot slower and why would anyone but those with time on their hands put in the effort and time to build their own when everything can be had already made and done?

It's like food...why make your own baps and burgers when you can pop down to the Maccy D's in town and have it done for you?

 

[itiwhetu]

Discarding the old principles we now know to be nonsense and focussing on those that have stood the test of time;
Water is key.
Match the fish to the water...don't waste money on the many products that allow you to keep fish that wouldn't survive in your current water chemistry.
Cycle the tank properly and maintain it. Don't waste money on ammonia/nitrate removers.
I'll stick to my preference for a little added mineral content, but that's very cheap and I'll stick with a good water conditioner, which'll save me money in the longer term, (see cycling comment above).
Stocking is also key.
Match the fish to the water, etc..
Do not overstock.
Pay attention to the whole ecosystem (including live plants) and not just a smaller part of it.

By following these two key principles, you may never need to spend money on expensive treatments and water-changing chemicals.
You needn't spend money on replacement plants and fish.

Money can also be saved by keeping it natural.
None of the old books were keen on 'toys' in the tank, nor on brightly coloured artificiality.

I'm going to annoy you by saying.
The "Water is Key" statement which I think is 100% correct. Why then do we still tell members, that even though we know a fish likes acid water to not worry about it living in an Alkaline tank. 40 years ago that attitude would have been frowned upon in most Aquarium Societies.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

All good ideas

However...the time it takes to research and carry out or build all of those things is often too much time (unless you are retired) and in this day and age there is an attraction for the "ready made" and "plug in and play" cos many people have neither the time, patience or ability to do as you suggest in the post.

It would be easy to argue that the ready made plug and play tank has caused more fish deaths than would be considered reasonable. Whilst there's a good argument for them facilitating the introduction to the hobby for many, the short-cut nature and immediate gratification of needs nature of these by-passes the required needs to care and patience and understanding.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I'm going to annoy you by saying.
The "Water is Key" statement which I think is 100% correct. Why then do we still tell members, that even though we know a fish likes acid water to not worry about it living in an Alkaline tank. 40 years ago that attitude would have been frowned upon in most Aquarium Societies.

'We' wouldn't include me, so I remain unannoyed.
As I'll keep saying...match the fish to the water.
That said, I'm happy to acknowledge that it is easier to match fish to water when they've been bred in Europe, as opposed to some dark blackwater creek up the Amazon.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

It would be easy to argue that the ready made plug and play tank has caused more fish deaths than would be considered reasonable. Whilst there's a good argument for them facilitating the introduction to the hobby for many, the short-cut nature and immediate gratification of needs nature of these by-passes the required needs to care and patience and understanding.

Absolutely

But where exactly are people going to be educated about the perils of the "plug in and play" mentality when the shops who sell them also bombard the newby fishkeeper with enough chemicals and medications to stock a chemistry lab and a vet?

Alot of those who get into fishkleeping are led to believe that its a simple, quick and easy pastime

It isn't and it never will be

But that will not stop the manufacturers of the "plug in and play" equipment or the producers of all the chemicals and medications will it?

Being "old school" is all well and good and you can try to keep to the old ways as much as possible...if you have experienced those methods first hand when they were around such as me and my dad

But people thesedays are attracted to these stunning aquarium kits that would look nice in that space in the lounge...they buy it...then they are told that they need to buy this, and this and oh don't forget that

Many are given poor advice in the shop, many don't read the instructions or understand the instructions on the packet

They put their water in and everything else, drop the fish in and voila we have cloudy water, ammonia spikes and dead bodies everywhere just cos some person in the shop told them what to do

If only it WAS as simple as that...well before the water companies started adding crap to the water, it actually was less complicated......

Sorry but those born after 1980 simply are not going to bother taking the time to read up on how things are or were done properly 50 years ago. Most will accept the word of the person at the till as gospel and fall into the trap of pearshaped aquariums and dead bodies. Once that happens they either give up or they find forums like this and get educated.

But at the same time, one person's experience will almost never match another person, you cannot and should not generalise anything with fishkeeping cos it is impossible to do that.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Absolutely

But where exactly are people going to be educated about the perils of the "plug in and play" mentality when the shops who sell them also bombard the newby fishkeeper with enough chemicals and medications to stock a chemistry lab and a vet?

Alot of those who get into fishkleeping are led to believe that its a simple, quick and easy pastime

It isn't and it never will be

But that will not stop the manufacturers of the "plug in and play" equipment or the producers of all the chemicals and medications will it?

Being "old school" is all well and good and you can try to keep to the old ways as much as possible...if you have experienced those methods first hand when they were around such as me and my dad

But people thesedays are attracted to these stunning aquarium kits that would look nice in that space in the lounge...they buy it...then they are told that they need to buy this, and this and oh don't forget that

Many are given poor advice in the shop, many don't read the instructions or understand the instructions on the packet

They put their water in and everything else, drop the fish in and voila we have cloudy water, ammonia spikes and dead bodies everywhere just cos some person in the shop told them what to do

If only it WAS as simple as that...well before the water companies started adding crap to the water, it actually was less complicated......

Sorry but those born after 1980 simply are not going to bother taking the time to read up on how things are or were done properly 50 years ago. Most will accept the word of the person at the till as gospel and fall into the trap of pearshaped aquariums and dead bodies. Once that happens they either give up or they find forums like this and get educated.

But at the same time, one person's experience will almost never match another person, you cannot and should not generalise anything with fishkeeping cos it is impossible to do that.

All of which emphasises @itiwhetu 's original post, where the industry effectively exploits the unwary...and this has always been true.

 

[Essjay]

Those UK residents who use T8 fluorescent tubes may like to know that the government is planning to ban their sale in 2023.

Another change, but this time not by the fish industry.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I don't necessarily disagree with some of the points raised here but this does keeping popping into my head....

 

[Deleted member 149562]

I buy "plug in and play" aquariums

I use the aquarium only.

The lights, heater and filter go in the cupboard as spares and I install equipment that I know works and has worked for me and my aquariums for decades.

Your average person walking into a shop off the street with no previous fishkeeping experience will use whatever is in the box and not know that its basic equipment designed to do the minimum or barely average for that specific aquarium. They will not know that the equipment is not actually suited or that their aquarium is too small...."cos it has big fish on the box so must be OK"

Plug in and play is a potentially good first step to get people into fishkeeping....but imho the mistake is that many who buy them think that the plug in and play aquarium kit is the be all and end all and there is no work involved, when in reality the truth is far from that, if anything a plug in and play will easily lull you into a sense of false security that usually ends up costing you the earth in time, money and finances when everything goes wrong

Just as winning that goldfish at the fair would live happily in an unfiltered goldfish bowl several decades ago...the buying public was lured into thinking that is all that is required to keep that goldfish happy....in the same way you can spend thousands on plug in and play aquariums that give the same perception of fishkeeping being easy.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

Those UK residents who use T8 fluorescent tubes may like to know that the government is planning to ban their sale in 2023.

Another change, but this time not by the fish industry.

About time to to be fair. T8 was obsolete 20 years ago.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

@itiwhetu

You have made a good argument to return to basics and to perhaps explore old school methodology more...

If you owned an aquatic shop and someone came to you wanting to buy a 2000 dollar "plug in and play" aquarium set, had absolutely zero previous experience in fishkeeping......how would you....

Dissuade them from buying that 2000 dollar aquarium and stand kit and persuade them to go to the library and read up on everything, including building their own etc?

And...importantly since you are the shop owner and thus rely on sales of equipment etc.....

Would you place your extensive knowledge of old school fishkeeping over and above the commission and profit gained by selling that lovely 2000 dollar boxed aquarium kit?

You might dissuade or try to dissuade since you have extensive experience gained over several decades but most shops that sell these kits do not have that experience or knowledge and nor to many of their customers.

We all agree that fishkeeping is being marketed as easy, the equipment is endless, the chemicals and medications are mindblowing.......but how can you reconcile the profit margin of the shops that sell these things with the knowledge and experience that you personally have if you were in the situation of owning a shop and could make a decent profit on a 2000 dollar kit?