Survival/DOA rate for mail order fish?

[GaryE]

It would be interesting to see how other non US people do. My feeling about the UK is that there is still a network of decent shops, and things aren't as 'fast foodized" as they are for Americans. Are people in other places as pushed to have to buy online?
In Canada, the network of online sellers is expanding, but people tend to be very naive about our climate. We're spoiled by Amazon dry goods and seem to expect fish to be plastic.
I get most of my requests to send fish after it's become too cold to ship safely.
What happens in Australia, Asia, and the EU?

 

[Essjay]

I can't speak for the rest of the UK but within half an hour drive of where I live I have 2 Maidenhead Aquatics (a national chain), a Pets at Home (but don't shop there) and at least 4 independent shops.

 

[gwand]

Within half an hour of where I live we have two independent shops and four national chain stores, two Petsmarts and two Petcos. That is a bad ratio.

 

[Colin_T]

It would be interesting to see how other non US people do. My feeling about the UK is that there is still a network of decent shops, and things aren't as 'fast foodized" as they are for Americans. Are people in other places as pushed to have to buy online?
In Canada, the network of online sellers is expanding, but people tend to be very naive about our climate. We're spoiled by Amazon dry goods and seem to expect fish to be plastic.
I get most of my requests to send fish after it's become too cold to ship safely.
What happens in Australia, Asia, and the EU?

I can't comment on what happens in the pet industry currently but online shopping here in Australia is massive since Covid19. Before Covid19 a few places did online shopping and most people simply went to the store. Now every business (or nearly every business) has online shopping with either "click & collect" or "direct to boot" orders. I have been doing a lot of direct to boot orders to get food so I don't have to go into a shop where I might catch something. I actually caught a bug on Monday when I had to pick up the thermal paste for my new computer. I went and did some shopping after that and Tuesday night my sinuses were gunked up and I couldn't breath. Wednesday night my throat started burning. Today (Thursday night) my sinuses are still gunked up and my throat (top of mouth at back near throat) is on fire and I can't talk. I sound a bit like the Godfather (from the movie). I can't even understand what I am saying. This is why I have been doing direct to boot orders and my medical mask didn't do its job when I was at the shops.

But online orders are big now and so much stuff is being shipped by courier and postal services. There's a new crime wave with bad guys following couriers and stealing items being left at doors.

We don't get carried away with 24 hour shipping and immediate delivery and hopefully never will. But most things can be delivered to your door within a day or two if you don't mind paying extra for the postage. Going back to the thermal paste I bought on Monday, I ordered it online and it cost about $15.00 for 3.5 grams of paste in a small plastic syringe. I could have paid to have it delivered but the prices started at $19 for delivery in 4 days and went up to $49 for next day delivery. I don't have that sort of money so drove in and did my click & collect order, which cost nothing except the price of the item (and me catching a bug afterwards).

 

[Donya]

So after the various responses here, I decided to try again, but not with the same place. I specifically went looking for some place to order from that would stricly avoid the "double bounce" issue while minimizing geographic distance. I found one such place and gave it a go. I did two fish this time and, thankfully, earlier today I got two very healthy and active fish in bags and they started eating right away after acclimation. Honestly they are in such good shape I think if anything goes wrong from here out, it's at least partly if not all on me. I now realize having seen the packing on this box that, even though I thought the previous shipper knew what they were doing, there is most certainly a tier above that. Among other things, a much larger volume of water relative to fish size was used.

My feeling about the UK is that there is still a network of decent shops, and things aren't as 'fast foodized" as they are for Americans. Are people in other places as pushed to have to buy online?

I don't think my situation is terribly widespread in the USA. It's actually the first time I've lived in an area with no reasonably reachable LFS, and I've moved around a lot over my life. The total absence of LFS in my current place is relatively recent and due to overall business attrition in less wealthy areas of the state, which didn't just hit LFS but also a ton of other shop categories - it snowballed right after I moved in and was kind of grim. To use Colin's mention of thermal paste as a good example, I don't think I can even get something specialty like that now within a 2h drive, if not longer. Even the fast food is signiicantly diminished. But if what you want is some hay bales, you've come to the right place LOL. Basically if I was still living closer to the coast or even just less totally remote, I'd still be spoiled for choice with LFS and have no need of online ordering. Most if not all of the various shops I used to visit along the vaguely coastal metropolitan span from eastern NY up through Massachusetts are all still active, and I've seen on other social media sites that some have even expanded.

 

[Donya]

Well, so much for my previous post. Maybe it's just because it's saltwater that I'm having a rubbish time; or maybe one of the local delivery guys compulsively kicks all the boxes. Who knows. At any rate, both fish arrived alive and healthy as far as I could tell, both eating, and both are now dead. Everything was fine and good as far as can be seen, then just one moment a sudden spaz attack and dead, which from everything I've read in the past is a good indicator of either a seizure or heart attack. I have seen it before unfortunately, oddly both times before were also with aquacultured marine fish, but from stores transported in the car in those past cases. I took swabs/samples and checked with a microscope looking for any sign of disease or any parasite/infection etc that would give an alternate culprit, but everything looked perfect. All other stock in the tanks is doing great. No chemistry is amiss. I was sure I would find *something* that would pin it on the environment given how good these fish did right out of the bag, but really nothing is pointing that direction. The timing is supicious after what everyone said about the window of problems post-arrival. So I guess I'm done trying fish through the post since my current stat of 100% failure rate within about a week does not seem consistent with what others are experiencing and suggests some more chronic issue in the loop whether it's the local side of shipping, the stock, or me.

 

[Colin_T]

contact the supplier about the fish and let them know they didn't survive.

what sort of fish were they?

 

[Donya]

what sort of fish were they?

a royal gramma basslet and bicolor blenny

 

[Back in the fold]

The only fish I’ve ever received by mail are Killies . Aphyosemion australe , Fundulopanchax gardneri , Pachypanchax playfairii , and my three Nothobranchius : guentherii , rachovii and korthausae . All were mailed by private individuals and all arrived alive and well . The boxes prepared by these individuals were homemade and of excellent quality . These guys WANTED the fish to arrive safely . I suppose that someday I’ll get a dead one but it hasn’t happened yet .,

 

[Colin_T]

a royal gramma basslet and bicolor blenny

They should have been fine, especially the blenny, they are tough little fish.

If they are aquacultured, that would rule out cyanide. The fact they settled in well and ate, then died a week later is odd.

What is the salinity in your tank vs the supplier's tank?
I doubt it's salinity because most fish can tolerate a slight change without too many issues but if the supplier had theirs significantly lower it might be something to look at.

 

[GaryE]

Saltwater seems like a different hobby to me. Maybe it's because I've never gone there, but my experiences with freshwater fish don't always overlap with what saltwater keepers do and have done.

 

[Donya]

What is the salinity in your tank vs the supplier's tank?

It was a 0.001 difference if I remember right, mine was reading 1.026 that day and I think theirs was 1.025. They weren’t shipped in hypo. SG was the only thing tested before a speedy acclimation because I didn’t want to draw things out with the oxygen & ammonia situation. One thing that bothered me is whether I could have bodged the acclimation, since for inverts it’s different and for local fish the ammonia thing isn’t as severe. So this instance wasn’t a literal drop and plop since the seller included a note recommending going to 50% briefly after bag opening (just in case of some other big change I assume, pH maybe) and then finishing the transition shortly after. It was pretty close to true drop and plop though. No signs of gill irritation or heavy breathing so seems an unlikely thing to blame. Lights were on low, etc…like you said, it doesn’t make sense. Unless there is some cryptic toxin that can affect those two types of fish but not cardinals, damsels, or any inverts.

Would use of cyanide be a more likely match for what I observed if the fish weren’t actually aquacultured? That would be horrendous if it’s the case but they weren’t little tiny babies like some tank breeders sell and it’s also not like designer clowns where you know they came from a tank because of the color. In truth I have no hard proof of aquaculturedness for the past cases either, but had just never suspected otherwise.

 

[Magnum Man]

a couple hour drive for any dedicated fish stores here.... have one semi local ( mostly dog grooming pet store, whose fish tanks are marginal... I have bought a few fish there, but they have been a risk... I do buy bichir food, and frozen foods from them... so mail order is the main source for fish.... I've had a few ugly shipments and did try ordering from Hawaii once, unfortunately during the LA fires, so between extreme distance and circumstances that was ugly too... I can count on one hand shipments with death, and can think of only two, with all dead...

so... I think there is a distinction between dead on arrival, and fish that arrive live, but don't make it 30 days in my tanks... you are happy to see them arrive live, but that just means the seller is released, and shipping went well... but if they weren't healthy when they arrived, sometimes they can be treated, and live, and sometimes there is just no saving them...

I haven't had salt water tanks for 30 years, and that required local purchase... back then we had a good mom and pop shop, that the owner was breeding clown fish, which I thought was amazing, and one good very local fish only store, that seemed to cater to me, he always brought in, what ever I was interested in...

 

[gimme30]

@Donya First off, my condolences. You're between a rock and a hard place. I refuse to order online simply because I want to observe the fish in person before purchase, and I'm lucky enough to have a couple reliable stores that will order the oddballs for me and quarantine them properly.
Since that's not an option for you, maybe try a place that guarantees fish beyond their arrival? A quick search came up with a place called LiveAquaria, offering a 7 day "arrive alive, stay alive" guarantee. (I know nothing about them so check reviews first)

 

[gimme30]

You know what? Scratch that! I just looked at some place called Dan's and their prices are ridiculous!
Road trips are fun. And cheaper. Plan ahead for your next vacation!