GOLDFISH WITH FINROT AGAIN!!!!!

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sanchay

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Guys only recently i posted both my goldfish having finrot....and they healed...moved em to the main tank...now again the 2nd goldfish is having severe finrot again


incase if yall want the link

I moved both the goldfish to the main tank last week...I had exams this week...so was not able to observe them properly....as my exam got over today...i decided to have a look on how good are they doing and 2nd goldfish seems to have again but this time its severe (not stressed)....the water conditions in the main tank are good (0,0,20 on the top half and 0,0,15 in the lower half)
MVIMG_20220107_154553_Greatness.jpg

ig you guys can see the rot in the reflection
MVIMG_20220107_155011_Greatness.jpg


i am not pressing him or applying any pressure on him....he is still in water...just made a cup around him (i wont do this unless its severely needed)

i suspect one thing....there is some new kind of algae recently(around 3-4 months) growing in my tank....this algae is copper-brown in color when scraped, grows too quickly...none of the fish eat this algae even when scraped off the glass

IMG_20220107_155105_Greatness.jpg

this is the cave i made for that goldfish affected from fin rot....he sleeps here, hangs out here, hides inside when he's scared....i scrubbed these pebbles only this week and this has grown again (my cousin put a few shells in the tank yesterday...i will be removing it shortly)
IMG_20220107_155313_Greatness.jpg


this algae is all around my tank...even though i have plenty of plants and a snail.....these algae seems to flourish.....does this fin rot have to do something with this algae?

***EVEN THE SNAIL DOES NOT WANT TO EAT THIS ALGAE***

the snail goes over these rocks and glass....but never seen the snail eating this algae (it used to eat the green algae though)

the other goldfish was staying in the middle of the tank while the danios stay at the top half most of the while...only this goldfish swims in the lower parts of the tank...and this algae grown over all the gravel and decours is making it suspicious

what could be the reason?
 
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Colin_T

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There is obviously something in that tank that is causing the problem. Goldfish do not normally hide or sleep in caves so something or someone is stressing the fish out and causing it to hide in a cave for its own protection.

The fact the fish got better in the other tank and it did not contain danios, would suggest the danios are the problem, or at least part of the problem.

The brown algae just looks like brown algae and is not an issue. If it wipes off in a film and smells musty/ mouldy, then it's blue green algae (Cyanobacter bacteria), which can affect animals that are in close contact to it but should not cause fin rot or fin damage. It usually poisons shrimp and bottom dwelling fishes before it affects other fish. However, it does not look like Cyanobacter, and there is not that much from what I can see.

..the water conditions in the main tank are good (0,0,20 on the top half and 0,0,15 in the lower half)
I have no idea how you get 20ppm of nitrate in the top half of the tank and 15ppm of nitrate in the bottom half. That really doesn't make sense. If you have any aeration or filtration, the water will be mixing and the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate should be exactly the same wherever you take the water sample from.

I would put the fish back in the other tank and keep it there for a few months to heal properly and fatten up. Then in a few months, try moving it back into the tank and see how it goes. if it starts hiding, move it back out straight away.
 
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sanchay

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There is obviously something in that tank that is causing the problem. Goldfish do not normally hide or sleep in caves so something or someone is stressing the fish out and causing it to hide in a cave for its own protection.

The fact the fish got better in the other tank and it did not contain danios, would suggest the danios are the problem or at least part of the problem.

The brown algae just looks like brown algae and is not an issue. If it wipes off in a film and smells musty/ mouldy, then it's blue green algae (Cyanobacter bacteria), which can affect animals that are in close contact to it but should not cause fin rot or fin damage. It usually poisons shrimp and bottom dwelling fishes before it affects other fish. However, it does not look like Cyanobacter, and there is not that much from what I can see.


I have no idea how you get 20ppm of nitrate in the top half of the tank and 15ppm of nitrate in the bottom half. That really doesn't make sense. If you have any aeration or filtration, the water will be mixing and the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate should be exactly the same wherever you take the water sample from.

I would put the fish back in the other tank and keep it there for a few months to heal properly and fatten up. Then in a few months, try moving it back into the tank and see how it goes. if it starts hiding, move it back out straight away.
hmm....ok...coz i had the goldfish with the danios for over an year now....only recently the rot's there....I have never seen the danios misbehaving with the goldfish (I used to have zebra danios which misbehaved though...returned them asap after they started misbehaving....but these giant danios are calm)

lets say...he is not stressed...after i turn off the lights...after sometime..he goes there and starts sleeping for like an hour or two and then will be back on his job of searching for food in the gravel...then he would be swimming around....its not exactly like a cave though...just 2 rocks supporting a rock....I am having the same cave setup for like 1.5 years as i found out that that shubunkin likes to hang out around that setup...so that structure is undisturbed(except during the algae scrubbing)...i bought the danios only like an year back

1641577248972.png

this is how it looks

good to know that the algae is not the issue here...my tank smells slightly musty though during water changes (not usual)

yea about the water parameters i turn off the filter during the day for like an hour or two(max 2 hours with lights on) so that there is enough CO2 for the plants too...i took the readings during that period

alright then...ill have both the shubunkins in the 5G tank...but wont it be small for them? (this shubunkin seems to glass surf a lot in the smaller tank and never sleep)
 

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You don't want to turn the filter off because it can cause the filter bacteria to die off.

You get plenty of carbon dioxide in the aquarium and it comes from the fish and bacteria. They produce it all day every day.

If only one fish has fin damage, just move that one into the smaller tank. You can put a little cave in for him too if you like. The fish needs feeding up too and possibly deworming.
 
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sanchay

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You don't want to turn the filter off because it can cause the filter bacteria to die off.

You get plenty of carbon dioxide in the aquarium and it comes from the fish and bacteria. They produce it all day every day.

If only one fish has fin damage, just move that one into the smaller tank. You can put a little cave in for him too if you like. The fish needs feeding up too and possibly deworming.
okie...i will not turn off the filter

also, I noticed that one of my giant danio (the dominant danio among the two danios) is also suffering from fin rot(i did not see any rot yesterday and today a large part of the dorsal fin is missing)...can you please help me out...i am really confused

the water parametres are 0,0,20 (top and down) with filter running

i have no idea what is wrong here...that danio does not look stressed but the dorsal fin of the giant danio looks really badly torn

until now the 1st shubunkin and the other danio looks fine...

should i add more salt to the main tank?
 

Colin_T

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pictures of the danio?
pictures of the entire tank?
video of all the fish and tank?

remove the bigger pebbles and ornaments and give the tank a good clean. clean the filter too. do a big water change and gravel clean every day for a week and see how it goes.

You could try adding salt too.
 

GaryE

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Giant Danios are the source of the wounds, and something in the maintenance regime is behind the fin rot. I notice that when you ask, and the Danios get pointed out, you deny. But it's a pattern consistent with a bored fish. Maybe it took a year. But it's happening now.
I like Danios. In the right set up, they're great. A goldfish tank can't be the right set up for an active fish like that. It's too calm. In time, a lot of tankmates see goldies as a moving buffet. With salt in the tank, there is delicious body slime, and apparently, the fins taste good to other fish. The goldfish can barely defend themselves once another fish figures all this out.
Giant Danios sort rank, so they'll bite each other a bit too.
 
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sanchay

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pictures of the danio?
pictures of the entire tank?
video of all the fish and tank?

remove the bigger pebbles and ornaments and give the tank a good clean. clean the filter too. do a big water change and gravel clean every day for a week and see how it goes.

You could try adding salt too.
hey..umm sry for the late reply

i suspected my water being bad

so as soon as I sent a message here yesterday I did a 60% water change with a heavy gravel vacuum (removed all the decors cleaned em)(i also moved the pebble cave from the main tank to the hospital tank where the 2nd shubunkin is and he already occupied the cave lol)

yes here is a video and a photo

AM-JKLWHWwQyuNrQKNMJ1jRU4ONUBYKsXYDNP_ZSCwLgLxscO5WZn7syzAL67GwdLLypHJFnMkVKdiUm8PzM_kaVhXisuChCrg=w1299-h975-no


1641825536773.png

just that one fin in the top


Giant Danios are the source of the wounds, and something in the maintenance regime is behind the fin rot. I notice that when you ask, and the Danios get pointed out, you deny. But it's a pattern consistent with a bored fish. Maybe it took a year. But it's happening now.
I like Danios. In the right set up, they're great. A goldfish tank can't be the right set up for an active fish like that. It's too calm. In time, a lot of tankmates see goldies as a moving buffet. With salt in the tank, there is delicious body slime, and apparently, the fins taste good to other fish. The goldfish can barely defend themselves once another fish figures all this out.
Giant Danios sort rank, so they'll bite each other a bit too.
maybe you are right about the danios....guess one of them started to really dominate the other....is there any way that i can reduce this aggression?


this is a video taken a month back...they were pretty sweet with each other


this is a video taken today (one of the danios is kinda cocky with the other) but i have never seen the danios bother the goldfish though....the goldfish in the tank with the lights were already nipped by zebra danios when i was a rookie (2.5 years back)...the LFS guy told my father that the zebra danios go well with the shubunkins and made us purchase it (6 of em and 2 shubunkins)...to make things worse i had a 5 gallon tank back then...these zebra danios were continuously bothering the shubunkins (the tails were ragged and shredded) to a point were i felt really bad for the shubunkins...apparently after a certain time 1 of em decided to kill itself by jumping out of the tank...and this goldfish remained there(hence i named that goldfish BOLD)....after this incident i gave away all the danios to one of my friend (he has like 6 tanks...hes crazy bout fish keeping)...

I am pretty sure i have never seen BOLD being stressed like how he used to be with the zebra danios 2.5 years back(he did not eat for a whole week...he was too thin and lean).......if BOLD is stressed about anything...he would start to flee (dart around like there is no tomorrow and get stuck between rocks by ramming through them) when i am around...But i have never seen this behavior in him for the past 2 years (sometimes he bolts around when i am doing a water change)

Also that friend of mine....he gave his betta for a month(this happened like 6-7 months back)...his tank started to leak really badly...so he remembered the 5G tank i had and brought the betta here...it was the same time when my 5G tank was also leaking...so we put the betta in the main tank with the danios and the shubunkins (we were really doubtful about aggression and he asked me to remove the betta from the tank if i notice any)...I had that betta for a month and all 5 of the fishes went together without any fights (initially the betta isolated himself from the others...after 3-4 days he became casual) and i never saw the betta's tail being nipped...guess my danios were not bored then

are there any means i could reduce their boredom?

they dont seem to like a lot of plants (they seem to avoid the plants if there are too much of them....and they never seem to swim in the lower half of the tank where the decors are placed
 
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sanchay

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Giant Danios are the source of the wounds, and something in the maintenance regime is behind the fin rot. I notice that when you ask, and the Danios get pointed out, you deny. But it's a pattern consistent with a bored fish. Maybe it took a year. But it's happening now.
I like Danios. In the right set up, they're great. A goldfish tank can't be the right set up for an active fish like that. It's too calm. In time, a lot of tankmates see goldies as a moving buffet. With salt in the tank, there is delicious body slime, and apparently, the fins taste good to other fish. The goldfish can barely defend themselves once another fish figures all this out.
Giant Danios sort rank, so they'll bite each other a bit too.
pictures of the danio?
pictures of the entire tank?
video of all the fish and tank?

remove the bigger pebbles and ornaments and give the tank a good clean. clean the filter too. do a big water change and gravel clean every day for a week and see how it goes.

You could try adding salt too.
also i really appreciate both of you trying to help me....especially @Colin_T.....this means a lot to me....i have an emotional attachment towards them
 

Colin_T

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The danio in the picture looks like it has a bite in the dorsal (top) fin.
The only way to stop aggression in danios is to have a large group of them in a big tank. Then any aggression is spread out over all the individuals and they don't do any major damage.
 
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sanchay

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The danio in the picture looks like it has a bite in the dorsal (top) fin.
The only way to stop aggression in danios is to have a large group of them in a big tank. Then any aggression is spread out over all the individuals and they don't do any major damage.
oh....I tried to find these danios in many shops...but i am not able to find these...all the LFS tell that they are no longer getting giant danios as very few buy these danios (i did not know much about this fish initially...so i only got a pair of danios....is there any other way to reduce aggression?

will adding more decors do any help?
 

Colin_T

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The only way to stop the nipping is to get more of them and unless you can find more, I would probably get rid of them.

It comes down to do you prefer the goldfish or the danios. Then keep the ones you want and get rid of the others.

The only other option is to get another tank and separate the goldfish permanently. The danios can probably mix with similar sized barbs or tetras but they can't stay with the goldfish, and the barbs and tetras can't be kept with the goldfish either.
 
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sanchay

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The only way to stop the nipping is to get more of them and unless you can find more, I would probably get rid of them.

It comes down to do you prefer the goldfish or the danios. Then keep the ones you want and get rid of the others.

The only other option is to get another tank and separate the goldfish permanently. The danios can probably mix with similar sized barbs or tetras but they can't stay with the goldfish, and the barbs and tetras can't be kept with the goldfish either.
oh ok then....ill move the other shubunkin to the 2nd tank

Is there any way to like atleast reduce the aggression amongst themselves?

I am really sorry if i am bothering you too much
 

Colin_T

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Is there any way to like at least reduce the aggression amongst themselves?
Add more of them so any aggression is spread over all the members in the group. Plus their behaviour changes and they become less nippy when kept in larger groups.
 
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sanchay

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Add more of them so any aggression is spread over all the members in the group. Plus their behaviour changes and they become less nippy when kept in larger groups.
will adding a different species like tetras do the job? (if so, please recommend one)

i searched in 3 LFS tday and none of em have these danios (they all tell one reason that noone buys these danios so they simply stopped getting em
 

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