Fish-in cycling went well, fish now flashing

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Aaran9

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My fish-in tank cycling went as well as can be expected. A little back story, the filter was upgraded from a hang-on to a canister. After waiting a period of time, the substrate was replaced, changing gravel to agramax / Cichlid mix.

Unfortunately, the time between changes wasn’t sufficient. The biofilter was compromised. I had to cycle the tank, using Seachem Prime and Stability as well as adding a seeded / active filter sponge from Angles Plus. Stayed on top of the multiple water changes a day, monitored water parameters several times a day. Added air stone. Used salt once when fish readily appeared stressed. All the fish made it through.

My water parameters are: 0 ppm ammonia / 0 ppm nitrites / 10 ppm nitrates / 7.6 ph / 180 ppm gh. Tank temp is at 81 F. My canister is a Marineland C360, running a standard setup with routine maintenance.

My fish: 3 African cichlids, 1 red tail shark, 1 pleco, 2 clown loaches, 4 giant danio. 2 of the danio and 2 of the cichlids were introduced to the tank over a period of time shortly before this mess happened. All 4 are adolescents. The water parameters before this happened were good.

It’s been 4 days since the tank stabilized after the crash and the readings remain solid. I measure it twice daily.

Two days ago I stopped doing water changes but continue to monitor the water parameters twice daily. Again, no fluctuations. Since that time, however, the fish in the tank have increased their flashing and darting and it continues to worsen. They never flashed before the crash. And only a little during the cycling.

The fish have no signs of ich, other than the flashing and darting. My red zebra, who though ornery, has been my best confidant through this ordeal when it comes to communicating, has become withdrawn and is spending more time near the bottom of the tank. His eating has slowed. He does get those occasional momentary burst of energy to flash, dart, and chase others out of his area. The other fish are increasing their flashing now.

Suggestions on where I go from here? Should I treat for ich / Gill flukes ? Med suggestions if so? Because of the pleco and loaches, reluctant to go the whole salt route.
 
Can you post a picture of the fish that are flashing, and if possible a short video clip? You can post the video on youtube and copy the link here. If you can't do a video it is fine but we need photos.

How long has this situation been going on for?

What have you added to the tank during this time and what did you add to the tank during the month before this all started?
 
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How long has this situation been going on for?

Colin, thanks for the reply. The canister was changed on March 20th, 2018. The substrate was changed on April 3, 2018.

On April 8th I noticed the red zebra flashing. Immediately tested water and discovered a NH3 of 2ppm. dosed with ammo lock. changed water 25%

Started water changes 3 times a day, spaced 6-8 hrs apart, dosing ammo lock enough to replace changed water. continued to add salts at 1/2 strength, continued to monitor water before each water change. ammonia fluctuated between 0.5 - 2.0 ppm

4/11 - visited reputable aquarium store who recommended switching to Prime and Stability. add air pump and stone and active sponge filter. stopped salts.

4/13 - ammonia levels climbed to 4 ppm, locked down with Prime. Kept dosing with Stability. Continued water changes 3X day. Monitoring water before each change.

4/15 - NH3 still at 4ppm, NO2 climbing from zero to 0.5ppm by end of day and through water changes.

4/16 - NH3 still at 4.0ppm, NO2 climbed to 2.0ppm, NO3 @ 10ppm

4/17 - NH3 drops to 2ppm, NO2 raises to 2 ppm, NO3 @ 10ppm

4/17 - by end of day NH3 drops to 1 ppm, NO2 raises to 5ppm, NO3 @ 20ppm

By the 20th, my NH3 @0.0ppm, NO2 @ 0.0ppm and NO3 dropping to around 5-10ppm.

Stuck with 3 water changes per day spaced evenly apart, used only prime and stability and the active filter.

Water parameter have held constant since the 20th.
 
All the fish look really healthy except the peacock who has clamped fins and looks really unhappy.

Gill flukes don't cause that sort of rubbing on rocks.

I am guessing it is a protozoan infection, most likely Ichthyopthirius (whitespot) or Oodinium (velvet). Shine a torch on the redtail shark and see if it shows any fine gold dust like spots or reflective spots on the body. If it does show gold spots or a goldish reflection it is velvet.
If there are no white spots or gold reflections, then it is probably velvet and not whitespot. Whitespot is very easy to see but velvet can be difficult until it is too late.

If it is protozoans, it appears they have only just started to build up in numbers. The regular water changes you did during the cycling probably diluted the numbers of parasites in the water.

Did you add any new plants or fish before 8 April?

The zebra flashing on 8 April was probably the ammonia.

If it is velvet or whitespot, the parasites might have been brought in with the "seeded filter material" you bought from the petshop.

Any medication containing Malachite Green would work on whitespot but maybe not velvet, but you can only use it at half strength due to the loaches and catfish. "Waterlife Protozin" or "Waterlife Myxazin" should both treat whitespot but Waterlife Cuprazin & Protozin are for velvet. The company that makes them suggests Myxazin for catfish and Protozin for anything else. I found Protozin & Cuprazin worked better than Myxazin even when used at half strength.

Acriflavine works on velvet but not sure if it treats whitespot.

Another option would be heat treatment. Raise the tank temperature to 30C and keep it there for 2 weeks. If it is whitespot or velvet, the high temperature will kill the parasites and you won't need to add any medication. However, you will have to monitor the fish during that time and after just to make sure it's not something else.
You also need to increase aeration in the tank when you raise the temperature because warmer water holds less oxygen.

Another option is to move the fish into a clean container of water each day for 2 weeks. The old container of water gets tipped out and washed out with hot soapy water or bleach and rinsed and dried before being re-used. This would entail removing all the fish from the main tank and keeping them in a smaller aquarium or plastic storage container. And moving them all into a new container each day. The parasites drop off the fish and sit on the bottom and the fish are removed from the water before the parasites can reinfect them.

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If you treat the tank, make sure you don't overdose. You have lots of rocks in there and they will displace some of the water, and you also need to remove any carbon from the filter before treating.
If it is Oodinium (velvet), turn the tank lights off during treatment.

To work out the volume of water in the tank, remove all the big rocks and ornaments. Then
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

When you measure the height of the tank, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level. Once you have measure the water volume, put the rocks/ ornaments back into the tank and use a permanent marker to draw a line on the glass showing the water level, and put down how many litres, eg: 220 litres at this point.

If you want to use a medication look for something with Malachite green and Acriflavine and that should deal with any protozoans in the tank. If you want to try heat first that is fine too. Whatever you do, start asap because the longer this goes on, the more chance of losing fish.

Personally I would try high temperature for 2 weeks. Get the tank to 30C and turn the lights off during that time. Increase aeration and monitor the fish.
 
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What have you added to the tank during this time and what did you add to the tank during the month before this all started?

Colin, before the canister was installed, the 2 danio and 2 juvie cichlids were added in pairs about 3 weeks apart. everyone was happy at that time. was testing water weekly, performing weekly water changes. hang on filter - pad changes every 3 weeks.

Once I realized the biofilter crashed I did nothing with adding to or disturbing the tank or new canister filter. I wanted to stabilize the tank and not add fuel to the fire. I didn't even rearrange decorations that were placed at the time of the substrate change. at this time the tank is purely functional, tryin to get these little buggers through it. no fish, decorations, plants have been added after the canister was installed.

I haven't used any other additives than I have listed.

The only thing I can add is that before my biofilter crash I used API Tap Water Conditioner and transitioned to Prime to lock down the NH3 and NO2.

I couldn't get a video of the Red Zebra, as she is not very active, though she did scuttle out of her den like hot brass went down her shirt, flashed and went back to her den.
 
The photos and video you provided are fine, I don't need to see any more.

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re: your water changes. Bigger water changes are more effective at reducing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and anything else in the water. If you ever have to dilute these or any other chemicals in the future, do a 75% water change instead of 25%. You should do a gravel clean when you do water changes too.
Just make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the aquarium.

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I am fairly certain it is a protozoan infection due to the clamped fins and rubbing on rocks. You could try doing a 75% water change today and see if the fish look better a couple of hours later. If they do it might be something in the water (not ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, but another chemical). If the fish don't look better a few hours after the water change, then it is almost guaranteed to be protozoan.

When you do water changes, do you use fish only buckets, or do you grab any bucket from around the house?
Some household cleaning products can leave a residue behind in buckets and that can irritate or kill fish. If you don't have a couple of buckets specifically for your fish, then get some and use a permanent marker to write "FISH ONLY" on them, and only use them for the fish.

Fill the buckets with water, add dechlorinator and aerate for at least 30minutes before you use it.

I assume you are in America, in which case you probably have chloramine in your tap water. Make sure the water conditioner is suitable for removing chloramine. You can double dose with dechlorinators if you are unsure about what is in the water, and it won't harm the fish.
 
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Colin, I use only equipment dedicated to the fish family for the fish. my water change buckets are florescent orange and purposely bought for this reason. they are not used for anything not fish related. I do live in the states and religiously use de-chlorinator / chloramine water conditioner.

I turned the light out and put a flashlight on the red-tail. looks like he was sprinkled with gold dust. Velvet.

I want to thank you for helping me. I didn't want to treat for something that wasn't the problem, that could very well do more harm than good. Now onto treatment.
 
I would try raising the temp without adding any treatments. The last thing thou want to do is crash the cycle again.
 

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