Fish Gasping - Tried Several Approaches To No Avail

[shufflepuff]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone can help solve my problem or give me some ideas to try, because my current tank issue is driving me mad! I have trawled forums for clues, but none of the solutions mentioned have helped me so far. Also, I'm sorry, but this is going to be loooong, because I figure that the more info I give, the more some of you might be able to help.

I'm currently the proud owner of a 60L (about 15.85 gallons, according to google) freshwater tropical tetra tank. I have 9 neons, 2 serpaes and 3 reds (these 5 hang out together). I keep the tank at between 23*C - 26*C (73.4*F - 78.8*F). This current tank has been established for I think a year or more. A long time, anyway. My current fish community have been in there for a long time, and I haven't added any new fish, plants or anything else at all in the recent past - no events have occurred other than a water change lapse that I think could account for my tank issue.

My standard cleaning method is to do a water change by using my gravel vac - I tend to do about 25% every week. This time, I was late. I was due to clean on Monday, but I left it 'til Wednesday, when I noticed all fish were gulping at the surface - I went straight for a 25% water change, because in the past when I've tried to do a 50% water change to sort things out, they tend to get too stressed and gulp at the surface anyway. 

By Thursday, they were still gulping, so I rinsed the filter sponge  with tank water and popped it back in, and did 25% water change. Friday, no change, so I dismantled the filter and gave it a really good clean inside, plus cleaned the filter sponge again (all with tank water), plus 25% change. More gulping, so I tested the water ammonia level, and it came up as 0.25. Nitrates and Nitrites both came up with 0, pH came up as 7. Sat and Sun I did 25% water changes both days, and added some 'good' bottled bacteria to help, to no avail - ammonia had jumped to 0.5. I woke up this morning (Monday), to see that they were /still/ gasping, so I bit the bullet and did a 50% change. Later on this afternoon, because they were still gasping, I tested the ammonia. 0.5!! Whyyyy? In a moment of panic, I threw in an extra cap of water conditioner (I already use more than the recommended dose, which I was told was okay to do), and more 'good' bacteria, to try and help. STILL GASPING hours after this.
 
I use tap water conditioned with API Stress Coat Plus with Aloe Vera to do my water changes. 

Out of sheer curiosity, I have tested the ammonia levels of my tap water conditioned and unconditioned, straight from the tap - unconditioned it seems to be 0.5 - 1, and conditioned it's 0.

Please help me if you can, I've tried everything I can think of aside of adding 'special' extra chemicals to bring this ammonia down, I just want my fish to be happy again. =( (I'm so sorry about the length).

 

[Metka]

It seems like you have killed the majority your nitrate bacteria by cleaning the filter sponge too throroughly.
Do you use the liquid test kits for your readings?
 
Generally, fish tend to "gasp" if there are high levels of ammonia in the water - the fact that you have zero Nitrates suggests that you have one of two things.
 
1. You killed the nitrate bacteria, and as such your tank has to re-cycle.
2. You aren't shaking the API Nitrate bottle #2 enough - really shake that bad boy up, it needs it.
 
Until you get nitrate readings, you need to continue to do heavy water changes every day - although small levels of ammonia aren't that harmfull to your fish, if they are used to living in a completely ammonia free tank and aren't used to, it the shock can be fatal.
 
I would suggest leaving the filter alone for a few weeks, do some heavy water changes (50-60% daily) until the nitrates begin to show up.
Remember, Nitrites (the one before nitrates) are harmful to your fish but need to grow in order to cycle the tank. Once these start to show, keep up the heavy water changes.
 
EDIT:  By the way, I would heavily advise against using any "bottle bacteria". You really don't need to use it and It doesn't provide any benefits to the cycling process - it can actually cause more harm than good.

 

[shufflepuff]

Okay, thank you so much, I'll follow all of your suggestions and see how it goes! Thank you so much

 

[bigcheed]

a tip on gravel syphoning. you should only syphon every other water change. and only half the tank at a time. the majority of your bacteria live in the gravel. excessive syphoning can disturb your colony and cause a decline which will cause a mini cycle which by the sounds of it is what your experiencing. keep up with the water changes and testing as advised and you should come trough it. good luck.

 

[DrRob]

I tend to only apply that advice to tanks with undergravel filters bigcheed. It was what we used to do with those tanks for that very reason. Messing with the gravel can still cause mini cycles, but mainly because it disturbs the gathered mulm and other organic matter, releasing the mess of stuff mixed in with it.
 
It does sound like something went wrong before all this filter changing started, I wonder whether something has been building up slowly with gravel detritus or similar that has finally overwhelmed the filter, but that would generally result in a short, sharp shock type reaction, as the filter bacs would be highly active in that sort of tank.
 
What we do occasionally see with city water is the lines being flushed with doses of things (generally extra chlorine) that overwhelms the dechlorinator, that can set off spikes like this. Generally a cycle like that is rapid, as it doesn't kill everything, but it tends to get missed.
 
Regardless, the advice is good on shaking the living daylights out of those nitrate tests, and in regular water changes.

 

[bigcheed]

fair enough drRob. it was advice given to me when i fist started. ive applied it since and it works for me. just goes to show you cant believe everything you hear. i do keep a clan of ammano shrimp in my though. so maybe thats why its effective in my tank. they do a great job of cleaning up un eaten food.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

First off there are ammonia oxidizing bacteria and nitrite oxidizing bacteria in tanks, there are no nitrate oxidizing bacteria. next it is hard to damage only one oF these two types in a tank. It can be done under lab conditions but it takes specific additives you would not find in a tank.
 
I am not a fan of aloe vera in tanks. I would switch to Prime. Read here pages 34 and 35 to see why http/137.161.203.100/environment/docs/afep/system/2009-SurgicalProtocol_LiteratureReview.pdf#page=45
 
some 'good' bottled bacteria doesn't tell us much. what brand?
 
At a pH of 7and a temp of 78 neither .25 nor .50 ppm of ammonia should cause fish to be gasping, there is almost none of the toxic form NH3 (it would be about .003 ppm). Nitrite is the more likely culprit. But you have no nitrite readings. So these things would have had to be higher before you tested and come down. Doubtful.
 
Overdosing dechlor can cause false positives on ammonia kits.