Equipment Question

[Nik00117]

I've been out of the loop for a while. What type of equipement would you recommend for a tropical Cichlid tank?

I do know one thing I feel as if using two of everythign is the smart way to go. Like i'd want to have two filters, two heaters etc since i'm looking into a fairly large tank.

What type of filters/heaters do you guys recommend? Also what guidelines should I follow.

 

[Ludwig Venter]

I was quite surprised this afternoon when I connected up one of my Chritmas presents from my daughter (an Inside/Outside digital thermometer) to my tank.... (the outside temp was 28.4)

I have one of these outside thermal filters which also heats up your water on a 700liter tank.... (personally, I trusted the filter to do it's work, but never thought the heater would be able to heat up so much water in a simple "flow-through situation)......

I've now turned the thermostat down, as my prevalent temperature was at 30.5..... It is an Eheim thermal something, something and proved to me, that nothing of two's are necessary!

 

[doresy]

You want to start by stating which tank you are going to have....both dimensions and capacity

 

[Nik00117]

That much I don't yet, i'm in the early stages of just looking about. But let's say a 450 L at 1,50m long 50cm width 60cm height

 

[doresy]

That much I don't yet, i'm in the early stages of just looking about. But let's say a 450 L at 1,50m long 50cm width 60cm height

Nice........don't see the point of 2 of everythng unless you are parnoid about brakedowns.

If you have a filter that is more than capable of handling the capacity of your tank then bacteria of the correct level will form in it. If you have 2 filters then the same amount of bacteria will form, just being divided equally between the 2 filters but consuming twice the amount of electricity.

If you have 2 heaters (which are known to malfunction) each of say 100w at either end of the tank then some will say it makes the temperature more equal in a long tank. The power consumption would be the same as say a 200watt heater. If one were to stop working then the other would be able to cope untill you replaced the broken one. Personally I would trust the one heater and, as you should, check the thermometer daily. If there is a malfunction then in a large tank it should be easy to spot, up or down before it is critical.

*EDIT* The amount of time it takes to cycle a set-up is plenty of time to 'run in' the filter/heater and gain confidence in them

Most importantly would be to chose a filter/heater which can easily handle your tanks capacity with power to spare and of a good and trusted manufacturer.

 

[OldMan47]

2 heaters is a good idea in my mind. I have a community tank about that size with a 250W at one end and a 300W at the other. They are not on very much of the time but the tank holds its temperature very constant with a heater at each end. The idea of hot and cold spots in the tank convinced me to put substantial heaters at each end. The total wattage is what is recommended for a tank that size and I run them both with the same setting. Quite often I find that both are on about the same amount of time so I think they are working together. If either one were to stick ON it would take a while for the tank to get too hot fore the fish so I'm hoping I would notice. Obviously if one failed OFF, the other would be able to help the temperature quite a bit until the bad one could be replaced.

 

[raptorrex]

there is also something to be said for two filters too. when you clean the filter you deplete the bio colony. having two filters makes the loss each time less! mind you, if you use internals, it must make a din in the tank.

 

[Nik00117]

Boboboy you hit the spot with me on the dual Fitlers.

I'm not worried about a mechanical breakdown, but what if I have a friend watch the tank and one of the filter media gets cleaned a bit toog ood? Well at least the tank will be able to recover faster because the other matured media is already in the tank.

The idea with the Dual heaters is that one of each side of the tank in order to keep the temp more even across the board.

 

[rabbut]

Well, dual filtration came about because of naff filters like Fluval exturnals These things were so prone to break-downs, that users decided they needed to run two to keep relatively safe if one failed, so they had a back-up. All this despite most Fluval owners telling you they are the best filters arround Mature media would need cleaning under the tap to give a mini-cycle realy IME...

Anyhow, for filtration in a 450l tank, I'd go with Exturnals, as internal just can't cope with tanks over 50g IMO. Look at a pair of Tetratec EX1200's (one will just about cope with a 250l IME, so two should cut the mustard. Tetratec do a EX2400 that would also be good, but is more than twice the price of an EX1200, so it's more cost effective to get two of those) or a pair of Eheim 2028's or an Eheim 2080. Some might recomend a Fluval FX5, but I wouldn't go down the Fluval route again...

For heaters, you want about 500W of power. I'd mebe consider the Hydor EHT 300W exturnal heaters, as they spread the heat more evenly, and you can use two to get the power you need. They also heat more quickly than standord heaters, making temprature recovery after a waterchange by hose (the only sencible way of waterchanging a 450l tank realy...) a lot quicker

All the best
Rabbut

 

[raptorrex]

Boboboy you hit the spot with me on the dual Fitlers.

I'm not worried about a mechanical breakdown, but what if I have a friend watch the tank and one of the filter media gets cleaned a bit toog ood? Well at least the tank will be able to recover faster because the other matured media is already in the tank.

The idea with the Dual heaters is that one of each side of the tank in order to keep the temp more even across the board.

glad you like the idea but i think you miss my point on the dual heater thing. for me it has nothing to do with evenness of heat. its down to reliability. heaters are known both to fail and stick on. using two heaters, just, means that your fish will not boil or freeze till you can replace the faulty unit.

 

[rabbut]

But it increases the chances of it failing in the first place with By-metalic switch types Running two heaters gets them switching on and off more often, wearing out the strip inside over a shorter period of time. Eventually it leads to a fluctuating temperature and failure, from one unit, which in by-metalic strip heaters typically means sticking in the on position...

If you want to double up heaters, it's best to use an electrinic control circuit type, as they don't wear out as fast and usualy fail off Fluval Tronics and Hydor's are the best two electronic heaters that spring to mind With electronics, considering the fact they will almost always fail off, I'd buy two, each of which can heat the tank alone, and set one 2 degrees cooler than the other. This way, when the main one fails, the back-up steaps in preventing a large temperature drop, and also aids temperature stability if you waterchange via hose, as heating power will double if the temperature drops by more than the safety allowance

All the best
Rabbut

 

[raptorrex]

But it increases the chances of it failing in the first place with By-metalic switch types Running two heaters gets them switching on and off more often, wearing out the strip inside over a shorter period of time. Eventually it leads to a fluctuating temperature and failure, from one unit, which in by-metalic strip heaters typically means sticking in the on position...

If you want to double up heaters, it's best to use an electrinic control circuit type, as they don't wear out as fast and usualy fail off Fluval Tronics and Hydor's are the best two electronic heaters that spring to mind With electronics, considering the fact they will almost always fail off, I'd buy two, each of which can heat the tank alone, and set one 2 degrees cooler than the other. This way, when the main one fails, the back-up steaps in preventing a large temperature drop, and also aids temperature stability if you waterchange via hose, as heating power will double if the temperature drops by more than the safety allowance

All the best
Rabbut

A fall of two degrees, will not even be noticed by the fish! even 4 will cause problems for very few. as many tanks are kept in the living area of the house, a drop of more than 5 degrees is very unlikely. so my comments about freezing, were to say the least, over the top. but unless neither heater is capable of heating the tank up too much. there is no point in having two. you can presume that a more expensive heater will not fail in the on position. but if it does, and they do, you will boil your fish.

the most cost effective way of heating and ensuring safe operation at all times, is to buy two heaters at roughly half the wattage, each, required for your tank. whilst this does not absolve you of responsibility to check. it does mean you can leave the tank, unattended, for some time. knowing that the heat side, at least, of your system is safe.

trawling the forums and sites, it seems that expensive heaters seem to fail with the same regularity as their cheaper cousins. i read people with very old, very cheap, for the time, heaters that still give good service. and again people with newer Juwel heaters, manufactured by Hydor, still complain that they fail by sticking on. shelag had a Jager stick on recently!
my point is, cheap or expensicve these things fail. it seems clear they need changed regulally, for total peace of mind, so why spend more than is nesseccery?

 

[rabbut]

Or you could stick to heaters that tend to fail off, like electronics based Fluval Tronics internals and Hydor exturnals. A good heater should not ever need a replacement before the tank starts to leak due to age, and I know many people running 15yr old Visitherms, but they are by-metalic strip type and thus will fail on more times than not when they do fail... (In theory, I don't actually know anyone who's had one fail...)

Two smaller heaters in a large tank could be a good idea to spread heat, but I would argue that it would still be better to wire them to a central thermostat to readuce failure rates... Floor the tempearture dial on each and wire them into a Habistat reptile thermostat and both will be switched on and off together, by electronics...

A 2 degree drop won't be noiced short term, but for Discus keepers like me, a long time at a lower temperature could potentialy lead to issues after a week or so. 2c is a measurable difference on a thermometer, so giving you an "alert" system to a failed heater, without a significant temperature drop. If my heater failed off, the tank temperature would drop 10 degrees, as it holds on 30c while the room is at 20...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[raptorrex]

Or you could stick to heaters that tend to fail off, like electronics based Fluval Tronics internals and Hydor exturnals. A good heater should not ever need a replacement before the tank starts to leak due to age, and I know many people running 15yr old Visitherms, but they are by-metalic strip type and thus will fail on more times than not when they do fail... (In theory, I don't actually know anyone who's had one fail...)

Two smaller heaters in a large tank could be a good idea to spread heat, but I would argue that it would still be better to wire them to a central thermostat to readuce failure rates... Floor the tempearture dial on each and wire them into a Habistat reptile thermostat and both will be switched on and off together, by electronics...

A 2 degree drop won't be noiced short term, but for Discus keepers like me, a long time at a lower temperature could potentialy lead to issues after a week or so. 2c is a measurable difference on a thermometer, so giving you an "alert" system to a failed heater, without a significant temperature drop. If my heater failed off, the tank temperature would drop 10 degrees, as it holds on 30c while the room is at 20...

All the best
Rabbut

I quite agree getting two heaters run by an external stat, would be the ideal situation, unless the external stat goes faulty. but using as i have stated, costs much less, and achieves the same result. it was also interesting to note that on, none sales, sites dealing with aquaria heating and heaters. the advice was, usually, to do as i say, for the reasons i mention!! they do not say you have too, just advise it as a sensible precaution. i never looked before, i thought i had the idea by myself
Hey Ho!!

Ideally we should use heaters that cant boil our fish, not by technology, but by dint of not being powerful enough to heat more than a few degrees above our requirement. this is not that hard to do. but it does mean doing tests, finding the mean, highest and lowest room temperature. to decide the exact wattage you require. even so i would still use two, because one can fail, and that will never change.lol

 

[OohFeeshy]

For something that size (and presuming you want a nice 'display' ish tank), it would be worth looking into a sump both for large volume of filter media (which, being a cichlid tank, you'll need) and also as somewhere to keep all the equipment.