Dear members,
What a stressful few days it has been in my house!!!
I have no idea what happened, everything was going so well with my little adopted fish – even my known tail biter seemed okay and then everything took a turn for the worst.
If you do not have time to read through all the observation notes posted directly below that I have been keeping regarding the last week that my fish have been unwell – then please just skip down to the part in this post starting with the section headed **EMERGENCY TIME!!! 23/11/12 ONWARDS.
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Observation note Saturday 17th Nov 2012
Second fish was delivered to my apartment.
Previous owner purchased this little guy in October 2011 from Malaysia. He is a half moon very dark midnight blue betta with red pectoral fins and some red lines through his tail – in most light and photos he looks completely black though. His fins are very long and look heavy for him – owner told me he needs resting points near the water height because he finds it hard to swim up to the top of the tank from the bottom because his fins are so heavy for him. Looks like he does not really swim fast or very much at all – just floats around slowly. Doesn’t really explore or adventure around his tank like the tail biting little guy does.
Observation note Sunday 18th Nov 2012
My door bell rang this morning and it was a parcel delivery: along with the treasures inside were the bigher/taller silk plants I had ordered and they are great - very wide and very soft silk leaves, they are almost as high as the water level which is what I was hoping for. I've been watching the heavy finned new guy closely today to make sure that he is feeling alright after his move; He has happily eaten his food every meal time without hesitation. He has calmed down heaps as far as flaring at the tail biter is concerned (I did move the bowls slightly further apart). He seems to be a very laid back little guy - just floats around slowly unless he is actually showing off/flaring. He does seem to like to rest right on the bottom of his tank.
My tail biter on the other hand - is as active as ever. He is very happy with his new tall and wide silk leaf hiding and resting points and he has even taken straight away to the taller 'upside down glass' resting ledge that I gave them both today.
Observation note Tuesday 20th Nov 2012
Water change for both fish - First ever water change with new heavy finned fish.
Added both the seachem prime and seachem stress to his new water like I have been doing for Tail biter.
Took out all the floating lily pads because they were making it hard to feed them/observe them properly.
Attison betta pellet food delivery arrived this morning along with the indian almond leaves from the Betta Congress International association. Attison Pellets are really tiny and instructions say feed up to 7 pellets in a feeding session twice a day. Both fish ate them no problem, no spitting them out. Tail biter much more active/alert than heavy fin guy when it comes to finding food. Heavy finned guy will not eat anything that is not floating on the water – he will not chase slowly sinking blood worms for example, and he misses or doesn’t see or isn’t interested in the pellets unless they are put right in front of him – even then he seems to wait for them to float towards him instead of him swimming toward them to eat them.
Observation note Wednesday 21st Nov 2012.
My husband left me a note before leaving for work saying that both fish seemed very agreesive/agitated this morning. He said they were flaring around but he didn’t know if it was at each other or simply at their own reflections in the bowl. Tail biter specifically was swimming up and down repeatedly from top to bottom of tank and hubby said it seemed he was using the side of the bowl to try and catch his tail to bite it. Ive watched them all morning, and for the first few hours I was awake I did not see any signs of this but I’m pretty sure I have since seen my tail biter doing what hubby saw.
I have now cut two squares of indian almond leaves I received yesterday and added them to his tank after washing them, also giving a piece to the heavy fin fish tank – am doing this in another attempt to try and make the tail biter happier and more calm to kill off this tail biting habit. I have also taken out the upside down tall glass that was in his tank to give him more swimming space – now he just has the two tall silk plants. Funnily enough, I was reading about a tail biter this morning who only bites his tail when the plants in his tank are too densely planted – argh – some say he needs more plants/hiding spots/playing areas and some say he needs less. Am pretty convinced now that tail biter would benefit from a much larger tank.
Heavy finned guy does seem a little more active today – I am thinking that could be due to the fact that this is his first day since I added the seachem stress to his water, or the new food or…I don’t really know J
1pm onwards – Tail biter is seriously agitated today, in an attempt to calm him down further I have placed a black tea towel around the back side of his bowl. The towel is now blocking the direct light coming in through the window, making his bowl seem a lot darker and completely blocking any view he might have had of the other fish.
While Ive been watching him I have noticed a spot on his bottom fin that looks dark but photographs the same as his greenish body colour, but he also has some black smudges on this bottom fin just under where it connects with his body – I don’t know if these marks have always been there – will check the previous photos – will also do a search online to see if this could be why he is irritated/itchy etc.
Observation note 22/11/12 Thursday – everyone is happy today, both fish calm and acting normally AND we have two big bubble nests that each of them has been busy making under their new indian almond leaf pieces – yippee!!
****EMERGENCY TIME - STARTED FROM HERE ON TO GET WORRIED
Observation note 23/11/12 Friday: Heavy fin fish seems like he doesn’t want his food today, no idea why, First noticed today because he went to eat his breakfast but then spat it out multiple times - – then he just stopped trying to eat it anytime I tried again with pellets. Tried different pellet, same thing – he doesn’t want them. Both fish are getting an early 100% water change just to be safe. Seachem prime and seachem stress in new water as per usual. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks.
Observation note 24/11/12 Saturday: Heavy fin fish still refusing food and now he is laying on the bottom of his tank. Tail biter looks happy. Heavy fin fish that is not eating anymore and looks sick/lethargic also now has a clamped and ragged top fin – I honestly don’t know if this is how his fin looked when he arrived at my place, I didn’t inspect him close enough because he came as the ‘healthy’ fish with zero problems and I was so focused on the tail biter. He got worse and worse and I was really worried and had done hours more research – which has been non stop since I took them in. The only thing I had on hand was aquarium salt. Late this evening I made up a little half gallon bowl with seachem prime, seachem stress and half a teaspoon of dissolved aquarium salt. Moved the heavy fin fish into this solution and watched him. No change really. I left him there for a little while – the treatment I was going to follow said to leave him there for 24 hours, then give all new water and salt everyday for 7 days. But I had hesitations after he was in there for a while because I really didn’t feel confident in the science behind what I was doing to him so I took him out the salt after a little while and into his usual bowl. He sank to the bottom on the tank and laid there – I was certain he would be dead by the morning.
Observation note 25/11/12 Sunday:
Sunday morning – heavy finned fish is alive and looking better than ever! What a relief! He is hungry and wanting food. Tail biter looks good too. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks. Heavy fin fish has come back to life today and very keen to get back to his regular food routine. Heavy fin fish still has a noticely ragged top tail. Tail biter as happy as ever.
Observation note Sunday evening = I came home, went straight to the fish tanks for dinner feeding – heavy fin fish is happy and eating well but I cant see the tail biter, look for him and see he is lying flat on the bottom on his tank!!! Tap the tank, no response, move the bowl around, no response…completely lifeless except for a little movement of his gills – emergency time - I grabbed a little bowl, put seachem prime and stress into it and tried to move this little guy into – which was difficult because he was lifeless and I was so scared of hurting him trying to carefully put him in a cup for transfer. In the little new bowl he laid there, poor little thing! I realised even in the half gallon hospital bowl he could not get up all the way for air, so I took out half of the water and helped him up every couple of minutes by slightly tilting the bowl. When I put a pellet by his head as a test he eagerly grabs at it – no hesitation. Immediately I took the almond leaves out of both the normal tanks. Both tanks had been given a piece of the same leaf this morning – that was washed before putting in their tanks everyday – nothing else had changed – and a day later I had another almost dead fish. At this point the heavy fin fish who was still looking fine and eating well was given yet another 100% water change just to be safe, with seachem prime and stress and I did not give him another of the almond leaves.
Observation note 26/11/12 Monday: (today)
Monday morning = heavy fin fish still looks good and tail biter is still alive, just, laying on his side at the bottom of the little bowl I had him in for the night. Still wanting to eat though – struggling to get the top of the water for air so im still helping him by tilting the bowl slightly to lift him up. Now this morning my little tail biter seems to have some water cotton fluff around the edges of his bottom fin, and flowing off from the fin slightly…
So at 10:30am I put all new water into a half gallon hospital tank, Added, seachem prime, seachem stress, and seachem paraguard to the water and moved tail biter into it. He seemed to immediately pick up a little. An hour later he is now able to actually not just lay flat on his side and can hang properly just below the water line for a few minutes before laying back on the bottom.
After more hours of research I decide that the seachem paraguard could help the heavy finned guy with this mystery fin rot he seemed to get at the same time as he looked on the verge of the death the other day. So I put a bit of this into his tank as well.
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I am completely baffled – nothing science based is explaining the last week of events for me.
I have been super careful since taking these two in.
Keeping their routine as similar as possible to what they were use to in their previous home to reduce shock and stress.
The introduction of Seachem Stress to their water was initially to help the little tail biter regrow his fin – no adverse reaction from either fish for this addition to their water with every water change.
Both fish always get 100% water change twice a week, hasn’t been a problem.
Both fish happily took to the introduction of the Attison Betta Pellets – which I imported because reading and advice told me they were superior to the Hikari Gold baby pellets these guys has always lived on.
The absolute and only factor which seems to have caused an adverse reaction – at different times for each fish – is the placement of a new piece of indian almond leaf.
But both fish show completely different symptons at each point there has been a sudden emergency.
Heavy fin guy – went off his food, top tail ragged and withdrawn, ended up lifeless after a couple of days of these off behavious.
Tail biter – never off his food, never looked lethargic, just suddenly laying on the bottom of his tank lifeless, the next day I can see the white cotton around the edge of his bottom tail and he is also still lifeless on the bottom of his tank.
Am I going crazy?
Is there any chance the indian almond leaves could have introduced a problem in the water?
To be honest, before my little tail biter was found on the bottom of his tank, I was certain that my heavy fin guy had taken a turn for the worse simply because he was stressed from the recent move to me, thus his immune system was compromised, resulting in one of the bacteria that is always present in the water being able to adversely affect him and take a hold.
But now that the tail biter fish suddenly got hit with sickness as well I am stumped – and am now thinking the almond leaves are the common link.
I can not however find any information regarding negative side affects of the introduction of the leaves.
And I never would have gone to the trouble of importing them and including them in my boys tanks if I thought they could in any way react badly with them
In fact – both fish seem to loved them – they both built big nests underneath the leaves almost instantly – but then a day later they were almost dead
I am confused and stressed – and I know that someone here will be able to help me out.
As you can see, I have gone with the seachem paraguard as a first point of medicated treatment.
Unfortunately I live somewhere that very little is known about animal care and also the stores here almost stock nothing that I know is recommended as far as medication options. I also do not want to medicate inccorrectly - or over medicate.
As well as the
-aqauarium salt,
-seachem stress guard,
-seachem prime,
-seachem paraguard…..
I also have here with me right now but have not opened =
Myxazin (by Waterlife – formaldehyde 0.12% w/w, Malachite green 0.085% w/w, acriflavine hydrochloride 0.055% w/w)
and also Jungle Anti-Parasite Medicated Fish food (metronidazole 1.0%, praziquantel 0.5%, levamisole 0.4%)
Please tell me, what medication (if any) should I be using??
If you can offer me any support, treatment suggestions etc for my little sick tail biter today – I would really appreciate it
I am aware that the ideal environment for a happy healthy betta is a large tank, with a gentle filter system and a very consistent tank temperature maintained by an easily regulated heater.
These little guys have never had that in the past with their previous owner and they have only been with me a few weeks - the previous owner reported that neither of them have ever been sick in their time with her (not including the ongoing behaviour problem with the known tail biter).
So since moving into my place, their setup has been kept the same as it always has been:
- 3 gallon vase,
-no filter,
-no heater,
-100% water changes twice a week
-water dip stick tests I had done were reporting safe Ph/No3/No2/GH
- I had my house climate control set to 24 degrees Celsius before the week before the first fish moved in because when i inquired this is what the previous owner told me her house was set at. Soon after he arrived and I was checking on the thermometer I decided to insert and I realised that with my room at 24 degrees his water was not 24 and was way too cold for him, I then pushed my room setting up to 27 degrees celsius and since then it seems their water stays roughly around 3 degrees under whatever the room setting is. Today though I pushed the room pre-set temp up to 31.5, and it was hot in here, but now it is night time I see even tho the room is set to try and maintain temp 31.5 it is only reporting an actual temp of 26.5 right this minute.
I was really trying to keep things as consistent as possible for them straight after the move to me to reduce the stress, except for the one by one decor changes etc I have been trying with one of the fish to stop his tail biting habit, also the change of food brand and inclusion of seachem stress to both of their water.....And of course the recent introduction of the Indian almond leaves which was suppose to be a big positive but is the only 'what's just changed' variable I can identify for both fish.
Each fish got so sick so suddenly each time over the last handful of days that I did not retest with the dipstick the water that I quickly pulled them out of, I realise now I should have - but unfortunately when the heavy finned guy first was acting off we were assuming it was just the stress from the move because the tail biter appeared to be doing so very well here.
The heavy finned guy now looks and is acting completely fine - back in his 3 gallon bowl. His top fin is ragged but not clamped anymore and his appetite and activity levels are better than ever. To be honest I do not know if his top fin actually just looked ragged like that when he arrived here or not, I didn't take serious enough notice because he wasn't acting sick and he came from a loving owner who reported perfect health. He is a very dark blue/black colour in most lights with red markings/stripes all through his fins which makes looking for 'dark fin edges' or 'red bleeding fin tips' near impossible
My little tail biter is still now sitting in his little half gallon recovery bowl. I am reluctant to move him to anything bigger because he is so weak and I don't want him unable to reach the surface for air when he needs to.
I can report that yesterday and today when using my torch, I can clearly see a blood spot where the white fluff was coming off from around the edge of his bottom fin, and we still have white fluff bits floating now in his water and little bits coming off him.
With the torch his body does look like it has the metallic/gold shimmer that I've read about but i really don't know if that is actually just his natural colouring (he is a mustard).
He is still very interested in food.
Due to the fact that he is more alive today than the last two days, I am wondering if the seachem paraguard could already be having a good effect on this fungus (this is fungus right?) and if he would further benefit from a stronger solution one hour dip bath, any advice?
Or, if either of the other medications I mentioned above would be better suited?
Very confused though because the heavy finned guy had no signs of white fluff etc, and he picked up so quick the day after I had him in the subtle salt solution a little while the night before when I had no other treatments on hand.
I'm sorry if this is way too much information, please find below the answers to the normal fish sickness background data:
HEAVY FIN FISH
Housing
What size is your tank? 3 gallons
What temperature is your tank? stays about 24 degress celsius (I pushed room climate control up to 31.5 in the last few days so water has been reporting warmer than usual)
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? no
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none
Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Have switched them from Hikari bio gold baby pellets which they have always had to attison betta pellets in the last two weeks they’ve been with me. They also enjoy frozen blood worms once a week.
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice a day, up to seven pellets each time – as per attison instructions.
Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Twice a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Seachem Prime, Seachem Stress, and in the last week have also added pieces of Indian Almond leaf to tank.
Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
N/A
I have a dip stick test kit but im not certain of its reliability and my ability to correctly gauge the results using the colour chart. Hence, I change the water 100% twice a week, at which time I wash all silk plants in hot water before using again. Water dip stick tests I had done were reporting safe Ph/No3/No2/GH
Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? His top fin is now ragged
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He started acting different when he refused food and was very lethargic, not very responsive..then a couple of days later was laying on the bottom of his tank.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 23/11/12 Friday: Heavy fin fish seems like he doesn’t want his food today, no idea why, First noticed today because he went to eat his breakfast but then spat it out multiple times - – then he just stopped trying to eat it anytime I tried again with pellets. Tried different pellet, same thing – he doesn’t want them. Both fish are getting an early 100% water change just to be safe. Seachem prime and seachem stress in new water as per usual. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? 24/11/12 Saturday: Heavy fin fish still refusing food and now he is laying on the bottom of his tank. Tail biter looks happy. Heavy fin fish that is not eating anymore and looks sick/lethargic also now has a clamped and ragged top fin – I honestly don’t know if this is how his fin looked when he arrived at my place, I didn’t inspect him close enough because he came as the ‘healthy’ fish with zero problems and I was so focused on the tail biter. He got worse and worse and I was really worried and had done hours more research – which has been non stop since I took them in. The only thing I had on hand was aquarium salt. Late this evening I made up a little half gallon bowl with seachem prime, seachem stress and half a teaspoon of dissolved aquarium salt. Moved the heavy fin fish into this solution and watched him. No change really. I left him there for a little while – the treatment I was going to follow said to leave him there for 24 hours, then give all new water and salt everyday for 7 days. But I had hesitations after he was in there for a while because I really didn’t feel confident in the science behind what I was doing to him so I took him out the salt after a little while and into his usual bowl. He sank to the bottom on the tank and laid there – I was certain he would be dead by the morning.
25/11/12 Sunday:
Sunday morning – heavy finned fish is alive and looking better than ever! What a relief! He is hungry and wanting food. Tail biter looks good too. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks. Heavy fin fish has come back to life today and very keen to get back to his regular food routine. Heavy fin fish still has a noticely ragged top tail. Tail biter seems as happy as ever.
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
Not that I know of and not in the last couple of weeks since he moved in with me.
How old is your fish (approximately)? His previous owner purchased him in Oct 2011, he has been in my house since 17th Nov 2012
TAIL BITING FISH:
Lives in the same conditions as the heavy fin fish.
Housing
What size is your tank? 3 gallons
What temperature is your tank? 24 degress celsius
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? no
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none
Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Have switched from Hikari bio gold baby pellets to attison betta pellets in the last two weeks. frozen blood worms once a week.
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice a day, up to seven pellets each time – as per attison instructions.
Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Twice a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Seachem Prime, Seachem Stress, and in the last week also added pieces of Indian Almond leaf
Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
N/A
I have a dip stick test kit but im not certain of its reliability and my ability to correctly gauge the results using the colour chart. Hence, I change the water 100% twice a week, at which time I wash all silk plants in hot water before using again. Water dip stick tests I had done were reporting safe Ph/No3/No2/GH
Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Found him flat on the bottom of his tank the night of 25/11/2 no previous warning signs. But as of 26/11/12 the end of his bottom fin looks white and cottony.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Lifeless on the bottom of his tank
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Sunday evening, 25/11/12
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? 25/11/12 Sunday: Sunday morning – heavy finned fish is alive and looking better than ever! What a relief! He is hungry and wanting food. Tail biter looks good too. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks. Heavy fin fish has come back to life today and very keen to get back to his regular food routine. Heavy fin fish still has a noticely ragged top tail. Tail biter as happy as ever. Sunday evening = I came home, went straight to the fish tanks for dinner feeding – heavy fin fish is happy and eating well but I cant see the tail biter, look for him and see he is lying flat on the bottom on his tank!!! Tap the tank, no response, move the bowl around, no response…completely lifeless except for a little movement of his gills – emergency time - I grabbed a little bowl, put seachem prime and stress into it and tried to move this little guy into – which was difficult because he was lifeless and I was so scared of hurting him trying to carefully put him in a cup for transfer. In the little new bowl he laid there, poor little thing! I realised even in the half gallon hospital bowl he could not get up all the way for air, so I took out half of the water and helped him up every couple of minutes by slightly tilting the bowl. When I put a pellet by his head as a test he eagerly grabs at it – no hesitation. Immediately I took the almond leaves out of both the normal tanks. Both tanks had been given a piece of the same leaf this morning – that was washed before putting in their tanks everyday – nothing else had changed – and a day later I had another almost dead fish. At this point the heavy fin fish who was still looking fine and eating well was given yet another 100% water change just to be safe, with seachem prime and stress and I did not give him another of the almond leaves.
26/11/12 Monday:
Monday morning = heavy fin fish still looks good and tail biter is still alive, just, laying on his side at the bottom of the little bowl I had him in for the night. Still wanting to eat though – struggling to get the top of the water for air so im still helping him by tilting the bowl slightly to lift him up. Now this morning my little tail biter seems to have some water cotton fluff around the edges of his bottom fin, and flowing off from the fin slightly…
So at 10:30am I put all new water into a half gallon hospital tank, Added, seachem prime, seachem stress, and seachem paraguard to the water and moved tail biter into it. He seemed to immediately pick up a little. An hour later he is now able to actually not just lay flat on his side and can hang properly just below the water line for a few minutes before laying back on the bottom.
After more hours of research I decide that the seachem paraguard could help the heavy finned guy with this mystery fin rot he seemed to get at the same time as he looked on the verge of the death the other day. So I put a bit of this into his tank as well.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? He is a known tail biter – but has been otherwise healthy and happy since moving in with me and his owner reports that he has never suffered tail rot as a result of his ongoing tail biting attacks.
How old is your fish (approximately)? His previous owner purchased him in Jan 2012. Been with me since 2nd of Nov 2012.
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If however you require even further background information about how these little guys came into my life, their environment and history before assisting me - please see below the older forum posts looking for help and my personal observation journal notes that I have pasted below, they begin from the first date that the little known tail biter came into my home...
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Notes to self:
*First little betta came into my home on Friday 2nd of Nov 2012.
I took him in because his owner was leaving the country and was not able to find a new loving home for him. All her other betta fish had found new homes but this little guy wasn't chosen by anyone. She loved her fish very much and was a great owner - none of her other fish ever attacked their own tail.
* He had been living with his previous owner since January 2012.
* She had purchased him as a beautiful half moon betta with zero tail damage, in Asia and brought him back to this country packed inside her suitcase.
*After he moved into her home, he has routinely chomped off over half his natural tail length. Owner reports that his tail does try to grow back, but once it does he always eats it back down to his ‘preferred size’.
Observation note Fri 2.11.12 owner brought him over to my house so this is the first day with me. Bowl, products, food, bowl decorations all exactly the same as he has always had. We set up his bowl together and I learned all I could from her about her ‘routine’ with him. Previous owner says he looks very calm here, doesn’t seem stressed by move – eating normally – enthusiastic to greet us at waters surface when we move near his tank.
4.11.12 Extracts from some of my betta forum posts looking for help:
http
/www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f59/very-recently-adopted-a-tail-biting-betta-never-owned-a-tail-biter-before-232195.html
http/www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=118765
Really need to refresh my betta knowledge as soon as possible - thanks for your help:
Hi all,
I have very recently adopted a betta who is a known tail biter.
I have not had any fish for quite a few years now - and the only ones I've ever owned were betta's. None of my betta's ever ate their own tails though. So I have been obsessively searching the info to update my care knowledge and also read up on this self inflicted tail damage problem.
Hoping some of the very knowledgeable people here will be able to keep me on the right track with this little guy. I have learnt from other posters the importance of keeping photo logs to track progress so am doing this also.
He was originally purchased by his previous owner as a beautiful half-moon but his owner tells me that he quickly became a consistent tail biter and in the 10 months since she bought him he has routinely eaten more than half the length of his tail off. She tells me it does start to grow back but despite her best efforts he just always chomps it back down again (she had concluded that perhaps it is just too heavy for him and he likes it shorter).
I am keen to troubleshoot this problem behaviour and help this little guy to be happy and healthy if I can, hopefully breaking the tail biting habit and grow back his fins to their gorgeous natural size. But I am definitely not a betta/fish expert. I have owned numerous Betta's in the past and none of them ever bit their own tail.
I am using the Seachem Prime Water Conditioner (as was his previous owner) and I was wondering if I could also start using the Seachem Stress Coat as part of his everyday water content and if that would help the growing process for his tail? Also looking for clarity about whether this product is used WITH the prime water conditioner, or instead of, or only ever meant to be used in a treatment/hospital tank to encourage repair of visible wounds instead of as an always included product after water changes.
His previous owner assures me that although he has been a tail biter since his day one with her - that he has never suffered fin rot as a result.
I have been shown the photos of how he looked when he was younger and she had just purchased him and at that time he had zero tail damage – his tail was full and beautiful so I know the behaviour started once he made the move.
Since I agreed to adopt him - I have been researching like crazy about ways people find work with their tail biters to break the habit and repair the tail.
Poor little guy.
What I know of his history:
He was purchased in Asia and then transported in a suitcase.
Since then he has been living in a glass bowl that is about 3 gallons (for about 9 months now).
No filter.
No heater.
At least once if not twice a week 100% water changes.
Owner’s feeding routine was giving him 4 Hikari baby pellets a day for food (usually given at four spaced out / different times of the day, so one pellet each feeding time) – on one day of the week though he was getting frozen blood worms.
He has had the 3 gallon bowl all to himself but I believe his glass tank was sitting next to another glass betta bowl in his previous home.
I have taken him in and purchased the bowl he has been living in from his previous owner.
I am just about to place an order for completely new decorations such as plants / floating log / mirror etc to just experiment and gradually swap out one by one all of the decorations he currently has and has always had in his bowl and see if perhaps one of the objects in his environment has been the tail biting trigger.
I've also read that sometimes just moving the position of the tank or the lighting in the room etc can be enough to break the cycle (depending on why the fish is doing it) and so will wait a week before changing decorations to see if he is happier just from being in his new location inside my home.
Very keen to help this little guy repair his beautiful tail because the photos of him are truly stunning before he ate his fins back to kind of delta size but also because this behaviour doesn’t seem to be an indication of a happy, stable, content little fish.
From all my research, and in trying to pin point the WHY he is doing it - he does not fit the criteria of a 'highly aggressive' or 'skittish/neurotic' fish...so I'm leaning toward he may have always been too bored, too hungry or it is a hereditary bad habit. He seems like a happy guy, doesn’t act sluggish, or scared and is always eager to come straight up to the surface to greet me for food. Spends most of the day just calmly swimming all around this bowl.
I have read about the possible solution of getting him some companion fish to see if that keeps him more occupied and less interested in his tail but as he has never ever had tank mates before I would like to try all the more subtle changes first. If it gets to this point; How many companion fish would you say is a happy and safe mix in a 3 gallon tank with just one betta? (and which companion fish would be most recommended).
So any other advice you can offer regarding successfully repairing his fins – but most importantly stopping the biting would be appreciated.
I am also interested to hear from Betta owners who swear by or swear off the Moss balls (both the Marimo live Balls and the Fluval imitations – and the pro’s and con’s of live v’s artificial in an uncycled tank).
Lastly, is anyone able to tell me if you have ever heard or seen any info regarding whether dried blood worms are known to cause constipation / digestive problems with betta’s. As compared with using the frozen blood worm cubes?
His previous owner loved him very very very very much and I’m sure she took very good care of him and all her other betta’s (he was the only tail biter she had) – She had tried many things to break his bad habit and is knowledgeable about betta’s but I still have my fingers crossed he may be able to be helped.
He has been with me a few days now and I have not actually caught him in the tail biting act – but I am preparing myself because I have been shown pictures by his previous owner of him with part of his tail still hanging out of his mouth!!!
Thank you very much for any help you can offer and also for sharing your time.
Reply to forum questions 4.11.12
- Previous owner described his behaviour to me as 'being his own barber' because he always eats his tail back whenever it starts to grow back to healthy/normal size for a half moon.
I have not really read anything concrete on the subject though - as you say everyone seems to be experiementing with different solutions for every different little fish.
I am certainly not an expert and at this point I still feel this habit is so sad and he must not be happy - because I have not read anything that supports that it is 'natural or normal' for these guys to 'trim' their own tails to their desired lengths.
Have you seen anything supporting this behaviour as completely healthy in some of the betta's who just dont want a huge tail?
-His previous owner told me she kept her house at a constant 24 degrees celsius.
So before I took him in I turned my climate control unit setting to 24 degrees celsius also, so as to reduce the stress induced by all the changes/moving house for him. I've been trying to keep everything as consistent as possible for him since taking him on so I could avoid a sudden shock death and also monitor his usual behaviuour.
He has been with me two nights now and despite his previous owner never doing so and feeling if the room temp stayed consistent so will his water - I have inserted a digital thermometer into his tank so I can monitor what I assume will happen even with the climate control set, thus being unavoidable changes throughout the day just based on night v's day time etc and sunlight/warmth/heat through the rooms windows at different levels throughout the day.
I realised today his water was still reporting too cool for him though - so I have pushed my room climate control aircon up to 26 degrees. Am hoping once the room warms up this will have a positive effect on his water temp rising.
-He has been in a 3 gallon tank.
By himself.
I've kept him in the exact same tank at my place.
He has a little house down the bottom that I am told he has always had and he likes to pop in and out of there, especially likes to sleep in there.
There is a little penny wort plant on top of the house.
And there is a fake floating lily that I have been told he likes to make bubble nests under.
I can see that at present there is not enough hiding, playing or resting space scattered inside the main space of the tank though as the shape of the tank means the base is quite small and fits only the sleeping house and the penny wort that sits on top of the house is too small to provide 'near surface' resting spots or for him to play/hide between foliage etc.
So I have today placed an online order for a few new things to switch around and experiment with which will hopefully arrive in about two weeks:
Exercise floating mirror
Mini floating betta log with feeding hole
Different types of floating lily options
Variety of different types and sizes of silk plants to try out
Seachem stress guard
And I am going to keep an eye out for a different little sleeping house to sit on the bottom where his current one is that he really likes, just in case something about the shape or colour of the current one is upsetting to him.
Observation note Tuesday 6.11.12 My lounge room now reporting at 26 degrees. This is the first day of blood worm feeding with me – seems like he absolutely loves them. Grabs them at the surface and even swims down to get them as they start to sink. Then later this night was his first water change with me. Used the Seachem Prime from his old owner, and did not put his green elephant house back into his bowl because the space inside it is really small and I have read about tail biters who do it when they are inside their ‘cave’ or ‘house’ and removing that object can stop the tail biting trigger. I am going to buy him another house but one that has a much bigger space inside so perhaps his fins feel less squashed or irritated when he tries to sleep inside it. After I changed the water I put him back into his bowl and he seems very happy and calm.
Observation note Wednesday 7.11.12 Today I added some Seachem Stress Coat to his bowl (because my order for it arrived today). He didn’t really react at all after I added it BUT later in the evening when I went over to talk to him he flared at me – which his owner says he never does and which I had never seen him do to us. So I watched him for a while from a distance. He actually seemed agitated. He was swimming all around, up and down, but his swimming seemed a bit frantic, not his usual cruising calmly swimming around. I was quite worried but did not know if perhaps this was him ‘at his best’, or not feeling hungry, or maybe with warmer water than he was use to so just acting ‘natural’….not sure if it was a good thing or bad thing….worried he was reacting negatively to the Seachem Stress I had added to his water earlier because I know that product has never been used with him in the past. Later on he did seem to settled down a little and go to rest/sleep on the bottom of his bowl like he usually does when the lights are turned off.
Observation note & forum post Thurs 8.11.12: He came up for his breakfast pellet, did not flare when he saw me and ate the pellet normally. He seems calm again today. His water is reporting colder this morning though as the sun is not coming through the window properly yet and the room is reporting at 25 degrees. Seems to be hanging out just kind of staying near the surface of the water. I am staying home today so will keep a close eye on him, The good news is – Since he arrived here on Friday – I have not seem any damage to his tail, nor have I caught him attacking or even being interested in his tail. But that could change because his owner said he only eats it once it starts to grow back past the length ‘he likes’…and at the moment, the tail is short and I can not actually see any ‘new growth’ or transparent ends that look like it is growing back, so, fingers crossed IF it tries to grow he will just leave it alone now.
Delivery information for his new decorations that I ordered online looks like they will arrive on Monday which is great.
Bad news is I can not locally source either of the food pellets that were recommended (Omega One Betta Pellets & New Life Spectrum Betta Pellets) – and Amazon suppliers will not ship either of them to my location. Planning to have a look for a different source online that I can order and have them delivered from.
1) Does anyone know a reliable/trusted supplier online who will ship me the food products mentioned in the notes at a reasonable price and who accepts pay pal?
2) Can anyone tell me if it is safe to use an artificial ‘Fluval Moss Ball’ (the fake version of the live Marimo Balls) inside a 3 gallon tank? I am asking because the product specs on the Fluval Ball say it treats tanks from 10-20 gallons, so am wondering if it would be ‘too strong’ in however it is supposed to work or harmful at all to put it inside a 3 gallon tank. (Just looking at it for entertainment purposes really – but if it does help with the water then that is a bonus).
3) Can anyone suggest the most likely reason for the sudden change of ‘frantic/aggressive’ personality I saw on the night of Wednesday 7.11.12 – Could it have had something to do with the Seachem Stress liquid I added to his bowl – and from your experience, can you tell me if it does actually sound like it was a negative or positive behaviour change?
Observation note Saturday 10/11/12:
Amazon fish related order arrived this morning.
Completed 100% water change with Seachem Prime and Stress Coat.
Added 2 x new silk plants (one looks like a penny wort replica the other has tall long fern type leaves) and also added a small zoo-med betta floating log with feeding hole.
Put fish back into his tank with the newtoys – he was calm, seemed happy, floated around calmly-looked to be exploring his new decorations but did not seem stressed by any of it nor did he seem to be avoiding any of the pieces. Within 5 minutes of being put into his bowl he was even swimming straight through the floating betta log, inside, outside, all around – took a pellet through the feeding hole - he even used the bulb of wood on the outside to rest his nose on and seemed very happy with it.
Probably about an hour later I was watching him from the couch – he swan inside his log and then the next minute he was thrashing round in circles like Ive never seen him do before anywhere in his tank.
I moved from the couch and sat by his tank, watching and my hubby sat watching from the other end. After another few minutes he swam back inside the floating betta log – it looked like once he was inside he then relaxed and tried to settle down inside it – his fins floated/expanded/branched out – and he immediately then started thrashing round and round in circles, like he was trying to attack his fins – perhaps because they hit the inside of the log and he thought he was being attacked by something or…?
I took the floating betta log straight out if his tank.
Then put in a new floating lily pad instead. (almost exactly the same as the one he has always had in there)
It looks like there is new damage now to the longest part of his back fin and also a chunk out of his tail fin – but it is really hard to know for sure because I have not seen new damage before and his tail is pretty ragged already from past abuse).
I plan to watch him carefully over the next week – now that I have seen this new frenzied tail attack behaviour, it seems quite feasible that his little house that he had always had but that I did take out of his tank a few days after he moved in with me, was the tail biting trigger. I had removed that little house and never saw him showing any interest in his tail until I gave him the floating betta log – which once inside that it I could clearly see what was happening.
I am slightly concerned now that his new silk plants that branch out through his bowl…which I had hoped would give him new ‘hiding’ and playing and exploring stimulation could in fact trigger the same behaviour – as he swims by the leaves they could touch his fins and set him off on the circling tail attacks – but I have not seen that reaction caused by the leaves yet and he has been swimming in between them and all around the bowl today – something to watch out for though.
At present it appears the behaviour is only triggered when his fins are touched inside a ‘confined space’.
Hubby is concerned that now he does not have a ‘house’ or ‘cave/log’ he can go into whenever he wants that will not be able to get enough ‘dark time’ to sleep properly or enough when he needs to. Hubby has suggested that if he does has this specific confined space tail biting trigger and that is the reason he attacks it all the time/never lets it grow back properly – that perhaps we need to start covering his bowl with a towel/sheet or something to make it dark for him…in place of giving him a ‘cave’ to go inside. I want to do more research to see if that is necessary.
I have Attisons betta pellets being shipped from the IBC. Still yet to find supplier who will ship here and has Omega One or New Life Spectrum pellets tho.
Observation note Sunday 11/11/12
Added one more silk plant to his bowl today. (3 in total now plus floating lily pad)
He appears so much more confident and brave when it comes to the silk plants today. I have been watching him try different and new routes of getting around and between the plants – have seen him seem to be resting on/squished between the bunched leaves of the pennywort.
Have not yet seen with my own eyes him spin in tail attack circles any time the leaves have touched his fins.
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Thank you for your time.
What a stressful few days it has been in my house!!!
I have no idea what happened, everything was going so well with my little adopted fish – even my known tail biter seemed okay and then everything took a turn for the worst.
If you do not have time to read through all the observation notes posted directly below that I have been keeping regarding the last week that my fish have been unwell – then please just skip down to the part in this post starting with the section headed **EMERGENCY TIME!!! 23/11/12 ONWARDS.
***********************
Observation note Saturday 17th Nov 2012
Second fish was delivered to my apartment.
Previous owner purchased this little guy in October 2011 from Malaysia. He is a half moon very dark midnight blue betta with red pectoral fins and some red lines through his tail – in most light and photos he looks completely black though. His fins are very long and look heavy for him – owner told me he needs resting points near the water height because he finds it hard to swim up to the top of the tank from the bottom because his fins are so heavy for him. Looks like he does not really swim fast or very much at all – just floats around slowly. Doesn’t really explore or adventure around his tank like the tail biting little guy does.
Observation note Sunday 18th Nov 2012
My door bell rang this morning and it was a parcel delivery: along with the treasures inside were the bigher/taller silk plants I had ordered and they are great - very wide and very soft silk leaves, they are almost as high as the water level which is what I was hoping for. I've been watching the heavy finned new guy closely today to make sure that he is feeling alright after his move; He has happily eaten his food every meal time without hesitation. He has calmed down heaps as far as flaring at the tail biter is concerned (I did move the bowls slightly further apart). He seems to be a very laid back little guy - just floats around slowly unless he is actually showing off/flaring. He does seem to like to rest right on the bottom of his tank.
My tail biter on the other hand - is as active as ever. He is very happy with his new tall and wide silk leaf hiding and resting points and he has even taken straight away to the taller 'upside down glass' resting ledge that I gave them both today.
Observation note Tuesday 20th Nov 2012
Water change for both fish - First ever water change with new heavy finned fish.
Added both the seachem prime and seachem stress to his new water like I have been doing for Tail biter.
Took out all the floating lily pads because they were making it hard to feed them/observe them properly.
Attison betta pellet food delivery arrived this morning along with the indian almond leaves from the Betta Congress International association. Attison Pellets are really tiny and instructions say feed up to 7 pellets in a feeding session twice a day. Both fish ate them no problem, no spitting them out. Tail biter much more active/alert than heavy fin guy when it comes to finding food. Heavy finned guy will not eat anything that is not floating on the water – he will not chase slowly sinking blood worms for example, and he misses or doesn’t see or isn’t interested in the pellets unless they are put right in front of him – even then he seems to wait for them to float towards him instead of him swimming toward them to eat them.
Observation note Wednesday 21st Nov 2012.
My husband left me a note before leaving for work saying that both fish seemed very agreesive/agitated this morning. He said they were flaring around but he didn’t know if it was at each other or simply at their own reflections in the bowl. Tail biter specifically was swimming up and down repeatedly from top to bottom of tank and hubby said it seemed he was using the side of the bowl to try and catch his tail to bite it. Ive watched them all morning, and for the first few hours I was awake I did not see any signs of this but I’m pretty sure I have since seen my tail biter doing what hubby saw.
I have now cut two squares of indian almond leaves I received yesterday and added them to his tank after washing them, also giving a piece to the heavy fin fish tank – am doing this in another attempt to try and make the tail biter happier and more calm to kill off this tail biting habit. I have also taken out the upside down tall glass that was in his tank to give him more swimming space – now he just has the two tall silk plants. Funnily enough, I was reading about a tail biter this morning who only bites his tail when the plants in his tank are too densely planted – argh – some say he needs more plants/hiding spots/playing areas and some say he needs less. Am pretty convinced now that tail biter would benefit from a much larger tank.
Heavy finned guy does seem a little more active today – I am thinking that could be due to the fact that this is his first day since I added the seachem stress to his water, or the new food or…I don’t really know J
1pm onwards – Tail biter is seriously agitated today, in an attempt to calm him down further I have placed a black tea towel around the back side of his bowl. The towel is now blocking the direct light coming in through the window, making his bowl seem a lot darker and completely blocking any view he might have had of the other fish.
While Ive been watching him I have noticed a spot on his bottom fin that looks dark but photographs the same as his greenish body colour, but he also has some black smudges on this bottom fin just under where it connects with his body – I don’t know if these marks have always been there – will check the previous photos – will also do a search online to see if this could be why he is irritated/itchy etc.
Observation note 22/11/12 Thursday – everyone is happy today, both fish calm and acting normally AND we have two big bubble nests that each of them has been busy making under their new indian almond leaf pieces – yippee!!
****EMERGENCY TIME - STARTED FROM HERE ON TO GET WORRIED
Observation note 23/11/12 Friday: Heavy fin fish seems like he doesn’t want his food today, no idea why, First noticed today because he went to eat his breakfast but then spat it out multiple times - – then he just stopped trying to eat it anytime I tried again with pellets. Tried different pellet, same thing – he doesn’t want them. Both fish are getting an early 100% water change just to be safe. Seachem prime and seachem stress in new water as per usual. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks.
Observation note 24/11/12 Saturday: Heavy fin fish still refusing food and now he is laying on the bottom of his tank. Tail biter looks happy. Heavy fin fish that is not eating anymore and looks sick/lethargic also now has a clamped and ragged top fin – I honestly don’t know if this is how his fin looked when he arrived at my place, I didn’t inspect him close enough because he came as the ‘healthy’ fish with zero problems and I was so focused on the tail biter. He got worse and worse and I was really worried and had done hours more research – which has been non stop since I took them in. The only thing I had on hand was aquarium salt. Late this evening I made up a little half gallon bowl with seachem prime, seachem stress and half a teaspoon of dissolved aquarium salt. Moved the heavy fin fish into this solution and watched him. No change really. I left him there for a little while – the treatment I was going to follow said to leave him there for 24 hours, then give all new water and salt everyday for 7 days. But I had hesitations after he was in there for a while because I really didn’t feel confident in the science behind what I was doing to him so I took him out the salt after a little while and into his usual bowl. He sank to the bottom on the tank and laid there – I was certain he would be dead by the morning.
Observation note 25/11/12 Sunday:
Sunday morning – heavy finned fish is alive and looking better than ever! What a relief! He is hungry and wanting food. Tail biter looks good too. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks. Heavy fin fish has come back to life today and very keen to get back to his regular food routine. Heavy fin fish still has a noticely ragged top tail. Tail biter as happy as ever.
Observation note Sunday evening = I came home, went straight to the fish tanks for dinner feeding – heavy fin fish is happy and eating well but I cant see the tail biter, look for him and see he is lying flat on the bottom on his tank!!! Tap the tank, no response, move the bowl around, no response…completely lifeless except for a little movement of his gills – emergency time - I grabbed a little bowl, put seachem prime and stress into it and tried to move this little guy into – which was difficult because he was lifeless and I was so scared of hurting him trying to carefully put him in a cup for transfer. In the little new bowl he laid there, poor little thing! I realised even in the half gallon hospital bowl he could not get up all the way for air, so I took out half of the water and helped him up every couple of minutes by slightly tilting the bowl. When I put a pellet by his head as a test he eagerly grabs at it – no hesitation. Immediately I took the almond leaves out of both the normal tanks. Both tanks had been given a piece of the same leaf this morning – that was washed before putting in their tanks everyday – nothing else had changed – and a day later I had another almost dead fish. At this point the heavy fin fish who was still looking fine and eating well was given yet another 100% water change just to be safe, with seachem prime and stress and I did not give him another of the almond leaves.
Observation note 26/11/12 Monday: (today)
Monday morning = heavy fin fish still looks good and tail biter is still alive, just, laying on his side at the bottom of the little bowl I had him in for the night. Still wanting to eat though – struggling to get the top of the water for air so im still helping him by tilting the bowl slightly to lift him up. Now this morning my little tail biter seems to have some water cotton fluff around the edges of his bottom fin, and flowing off from the fin slightly…
So at 10:30am I put all new water into a half gallon hospital tank, Added, seachem prime, seachem stress, and seachem paraguard to the water and moved tail biter into it. He seemed to immediately pick up a little. An hour later he is now able to actually not just lay flat on his side and can hang properly just below the water line for a few minutes before laying back on the bottom.
After more hours of research I decide that the seachem paraguard could help the heavy finned guy with this mystery fin rot he seemed to get at the same time as he looked on the verge of the death the other day. So I put a bit of this into his tank as well.
********
I am completely baffled – nothing science based is explaining the last week of events for me.
I have been super careful since taking these two in.
Keeping their routine as similar as possible to what they were use to in their previous home to reduce shock and stress.
The introduction of Seachem Stress to their water was initially to help the little tail biter regrow his fin – no adverse reaction from either fish for this addition to their water with every water change.
Both fish always get 100% water change twice a week, hasn’t been a problem.
Both fish happily took to the introduction of the Attison Betta Pellets – which I imported because reading and advice told me they were superior to the Hikari Gold baby pellets these guys has always lived on.
The absolute and only factor which seems to have caused an adverse reaction – at different times for each fish – is the placement of a new piece of indian almond leaf.
But both fish show completely different symptons at each point there has been a sudden emergency.
Heavy fin guy – went off his food, top tail ragged and withdrawn, ended up lifeless after a couple of days of these off behavious.
Tail biter – never off his food, never looked lethargic, just suddenly laying on the bottom of his tank lifeless, the next day I can see the white cotton around the edge of his bottom tail and he is also still lifeless on the bottom of his tank.
Am I going crazy?
Is there any chance the indian almond leaves could have introduced a problem in the water?
To be honest, before my little tail biter was found on the bottom of his tank, I was certain that my heavy fin guy had taken a turn for the worse simply because he was stressed from the recent move to me, thus his immune system was compromised, resulting in one of the bacteria that is always present in the water being able to adversely affect him and take a hold.
But now that the tail biter fish suddenly got hit with sickness as well I am stumped – and am now thinking the almond leaves are the common link.
I can not however find any information regarding negative side affects of the introduction of the leaves.
And I never would have gone to the trouble of importing them and including them in my boys tanks if I thought they could in any way react badly with them
In fact – both fish seem to loved them – they both built big nests underneath the leaves almost instantly – but then a day later they were almost dead
I am confused and stressed – and I know that someone here will be able to help me out.
As you can see, I have gone with the seachem paraguard as a first point of medicated treatment.
Unfortunately I live somewhere that very little is known about animal care and also the stores here almost stock nothing that I know is recommended as far as medication options. I also do not want to medicate inccorrectly - or over medicate.
As well as the
-aqauarium salt,
-seachem stress guard,
-seachem prime,
-seachem paraguard…..
I also have here with me right now but have not opened =
Myxazin (by Waterlife – formaldehyde 0.12% w/w, Malachite green 0.085% w/w, acriflavine hydrochloride 0.055% w/w)
and also Jungle Anti-Parasite Medicated Fish food (metronidazole 1.0%, praziquantel 0.5%, levamisole 0.4%)
Please tell me, what medication (if any) should I be using??
If you can offer me any support, treatment suggestions etc for my little sick tail biter today – I would really appreciate it
I am aware that the ideal environment for a happy healthy betta is a large tank, with a gentle filter system and a very consistent tank temperature maintained by an easily regulated heater.
These little guys have never had that in the past with their previous owner and they have only been with me a few weeks - the previous owner reported that neither of them have ever been sick in their time with her (not including the ongoing behaviour problem with the known tail biter).
So since moving into my place, their setup has been kept the same as it always has been:
- 3 gallon vase,
-no filter,
-no heater,
-100% water changes twice a week
-water dip stick tests I had done were reporting safe Ph/No3/No2/GH
- I had my house climate control set to 24 degrees Celsius before the week before the first fish moved in because when i inquired this is what the previous owner told me her house was set at. Soon after he arrived and I was checking on the thermometer I decided to insert and I realised that with my room at 24 degrees his water was not 24 and was way too cold for him, I then pushed my room setting up to 27 degrees celsius and since then it seems their water stays roughly around 3 degrees under whatever the room setting is. Today though I pushed the room pre-set temp up to 31.5, and it was hot in here, but now it is night time I see even tho the room is set to try and maintain temp 31.5 it is only reporting an actual temp of 26.5 right this minute.
I was really trying to keep things as consistent as possible for them straight after the move to me to reduce the stress, except for the one by one decor changes etc I have been trying with one of the fish to stop his tail biting habit, also the change of food brand and inclusion of seachem stress to both of their water.....And of course the recent introduction of the Indian almond leaves which was suppose to be a big positive but is the only 'what's just changed' variable I can identify for both fish.
Each fish got so sick so suddenly each time over the last handful of days that I did not retest with the dipstick the water that I quickly pulled them out of, I realise now I should have - but unfortunately when the heavy finned guy first was acting off we were assuming it was just the stress from the move because the tail biter appeared to be doing so very well here.
The heavy finned guy now looks and is acting completely fine - back in his 3 gallon bowl. His top fin is ragged but not clamped anymore and his appetite and activity levels are better than ever. To be honest I do not know if his top fin actually just looked ragged like that when he arrived here or not, I didn't take serious enough notice because he wasn't acting sick and he came from a loving owner who reported perfect health. He is a very dark blue/black colour in most lights with red markings/stripes all through his fins which makes looking for 'dark fin edges' or 'red bleeding fin tips' near impossible
My little tail biter is still now sitting in his little half gallon recovery bowl. I am reluctant to move him to anything bigger because he is so weak and I don't want him unable to reach the surface for air when he needs to.
I can report that yesterday and today when using my torch, I can clearly see a blood spot where the white fluff was coming off from around the edge of his bottom fin, and we still have white fluff bits floating now in his water and little bits coming off him.
With the torch his body does look like it has the metallic/gold shimmer that I've read about but i really don't know if that is actually just his natural colouring (he is a mustard).
He is still very interested in food.
Due to the fact that he is more alive today than the last two days, I am wondering if the seachem paraguard could already be having a good effect on this fungus (this is fungus right?) and if he would further benefit from a stronger solution one hour dip bath, any advice?
Or, if either of the other medications I mentioned above would be better suited?
Very confused though because the heavy finned guy had no signs of white fluff etc, and he picked up so quick the day after I had him in the subtle salt solution a little while the night before when I had no other treatments on hand.
I'm sorry if this is way too much information, please find below the answers to the normal fish sickness background data:
HEAVY FIN FISH
Housing
What size is your tank? 3 gallons
What temperature is your tank? stays about 24 degress celsius (I pushed room climate control up to 31.5 in the last few days so water has been reporting warmer than usual)
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? no
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none
Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Have switched them from Hikari bio gold baby pellets which they have always had to attison betta pellets in the last two weeks they’ve been with me. They also enjoy frozen blood worms once a week.
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice a day, up to seven pellets each time – as per attison instructions.
Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Twice a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Seachem Prime, Seachem Stress, and in the last week have also added pieces of Indian Almond leaf to tank.
Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
N/A
I have a dip stick test kit but im not certain of its reliability and my ability to correctly gauge the results using the colour chart. Hence, I change the water 100% twice a week, at which time I wash all silk plants in hot water before using again. Water dip stick tests I had done were reporting safe Ph/No3/No2/GH
Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? His top fin is now ragged
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He started acting different when he refused food and was very lethargic, not very responsive..then a couple of days later was laying on the bottom of his tank.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 23/11/12 Friday: Heavy fin fish seems like he doesn’t want his food today, no idea why, First noticed today because he went to eat his breakfast but then spat it out multiple times - – then he just stopped trying to eat it anytime I tried again with pellets. Tried different pellet, same thing – he doesn’t want them. Both fish are getting an early 100% water change just to be safe. Seachem prime and seachem stress in new water as per usual. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? 24/11/12 Saturday: Heavy fin fish still refusing food and now he is laying on the bottom of his tank. Tail biter looks happy. Heavy fin fish that is not eating anymore and looks sick/lethargic also now has a clamped and ragged top fin – I honestly don’t know if this is how his fin looked when he arrived at my place, I didn’t inspect him close enough because he came as the ‘healthy’ fish with zero problems and I was so focused on the tail biter. He got worse and worse and I was really worried and had done hours more research – which has been non stop since I took them in. The only thing I had on hand was aquarium salt. Late this evening I made up a little half gallon bowl with seachem prime, seachem stress and half a teaspoon of dissolved aquarium salt. Moved the heavy fin fish into this solution and watched him. No change really. I left him there for a little while – the treatment I was going to follow said to leave him there for 24 hours, then give all new water and salt everyday for 7 days. But I had hesitations after he was in there for a while because I really didn’t feel confident in the science behind what I was doing to him so I took him out the salt after a little while and into his usual bowl. He sank to the bottom on the tank and laid there – I was certain he would be dead by the morning.
25/11/12 Sunday:
Sunday morning – heavy finned fish is alive and looking better than ever! What a relief! He is hungry and wanting food. Tail biter looks good too. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks. Heavy fin fish has come back to life today and very keen to get back to his regular food routine. Heavy fin fish still has a noticely ragged top tail. Tail biter seems as happy as ever.
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
Not that I know of and not in the last couple of weeks since he moved in with me.
How old is your fish (approximately)? His previous owner purchased him in Oct 2011, he has been in my house since 17th Nov 2012
TAIL BITING FISH:
Lives in the same conditions as the heavy fin fish.
Housing
What size is your tank? 3 gallons
What temperature is your tank? 24 degress celsius
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? no
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none
Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Have switched from Hikari bio gold baby pellets to attison betta pellets in the last two weeks. frozen blood worms once a week.
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice a day, up to seven pellets each time – as per attison instructions.
Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Twice a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Seachem Prime, Seachem Stress, and in the last week also added pieces of Indian Almond leaf
Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
N/A
I have a dip stick test kit but im not certain of its reliability and my ability to correctly gauge the results using the colour chart. Hence, I change the water 100% twice a week, at which time I wash all silk plants in hot water before using again. Water dip stick tests I had done were reporting safe Ph/No3/No2/GH
Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Found him flat on the bottom of his tank the night of 25/11/2 no previous warning signs. But as of 26/11/12 the end of his bottom fin looks white and cottony.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Lifeless on the bottom of his tank
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Sunday evening, 25/11/12
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? 25/11/12 Sunday: Sunday morning – heavy finned fish is alive and looking better than ever! What a relief! He is hungry and wanting food. Tail biter looks good too. Both fish get given a new piece of the same indian almond leaf that was washed before putting it on their tanks. Heavy fin fish has come back to life today and very keen to get back to his regular food routine. Heavy fin fish still has a noticely ragged top tail. Tail biter as happy as ever. Sunday evening = I came home, went straight to the fish tanks for dinner feeding – heavy fin fish is happy and eating well but I cant see the tail biter, look for him and see he is lying flat on the bottom on his tank!!! Tap the tank, no response, move the bowl around, no response…completely lifeless except for a little movement of his gills – emergency time - I grabbed a little bowl, put seachem prime and stress into it and tried to move this little guy into – which was difficult because he was lifeless and I was so scared of hurting him trying to carefully put him in a cup for transfer. In the little new bowl he laid there, poor little thing! I realised even in the half gallon hospital bowl he could not get up all the way for air, so I took out half of the water and helped him up every couple of minutes by slightly tilting the bowl. When I put a pellet by his head as a test he eagerly grabs at it – no hesitation. Immediately I took the almond leaves out of both the normal tanks. Both tanks had been given a piece of the same leaf this morning – that was washed before putting in their tanks everyday – nothing else had changed – and a day later I had another almost dead fish. At this point the heavy fin fish who was still looking fine and eating well was given yet another 100% water change just to be safe, with seachem prime and stress and I did not give him another of the almond leaves.
26/11/12 Monday:
Monday morning = heavy fin fish still looks good and tail biter is still alive, just, laying on his side at the bottom of the little bowl I had him in for the night. Still wanting to eat though – struggling to get the top of the water for air so im still helping him by tilting the bowl slightly to lift him up. Now this morning my little tail biter seems to have some water cotton fluff around the edges of his bottom fin, and flowing off from the fin slightly…
So at 10:30am I put all new water into a half gallon hospital tank, Added, seachem prime, seachem stress, and seachem paraguard to the water and moved tail biter into it. He seemed to immediately pick up a little. An hour later he is now able to actually not just lay flat on his side and can hang properly just below the water line for a few minutes before laying back on the bottom.
After more hours of research I decide that the seachem paraguard could help the heavy finned guy with this mystery fin rot he seemed to get at the same time as he looked on the verge of the death the other day. So I put a bit of this into his tank as well.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? He is a known tail biter – but has been otherwise healthy and happy since moving in with me and his owner reports that he has never suffered tail rot as a result of his ongoing tail biting attacks.
How old is your fish (approximately)? His previous owner purchased him in Jan 2012. Been with me since 2nd of Nov 2012.
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If however you require even further background information about how these little guys came into my life, their environment and history before assisting me - please see below the older forum posts looking for help and my personal observation journal notes that I have pasted below, they begin from the first date that the little known tail biter came into my home...
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Notes to self:
*First little betta came into my home on Friday 2nd of Nov 2012.
I took him in because his owner was leaving the country and was not able to find a new loving home for him. All her other betta fish had found new homes but this little guy wasn't chosen by anyone. She loved her fish very much and was a great owner - none of her other fish ever attacked their own tail.
* He had been living with his previous owner since January 2012.
* She had purchased him as a beautiful half moon betta with zero tail damage, in Asia and brought him back to this country packed inside her suitcase.
*After he moved into her home, he has routinely chomped off over half his natural tail length. Owner reports that his tail does try to grow back, but once it does he always eats it back down to his ‘preferred size’.
Observation note Fri 2.11.12 owner brought him over to my house so this is the first day with me. Bowl, products, food, bowl decorations all exactly the same as he has always had. We set up his bowl together and I learned all I could from her about her ‘routine’ with him. Previous owner says he looks very calm here, doesn’t seem stressed by move – eating normally – enthusiastic to greet us at waters surface when we move near his tank.
4.11.12 Extracts from some of my betta forum posts looking for help:
http
/www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f59/very-recently-adopted-a-tail-biting-betta-never-owned-a-tail-biter-before-232195.htmlhttp
/www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=118765Really need to refresh my betta knowledge as soon as possible - thanks for your help:
Hi all,
I have very recently adopted a betta who is a known tail biter.
I have not had any fish for quite a few years now - and the only ones I've ever owned were betta's. None of my betta's ever ate their own tails though. So I have been obsessively searching the info to update my care knowledge and also read up on this self inflicted tail damage problem.
Hoping some of the very knowledgeable people here will be able to keep me on the right track with this little guy. I have learnt from other posters the importance of keeping photo logs to track progress so am doing this also.
He was originally purchased by his previous owner as a beautiful half-moon but his owner tells me that he quickly became a consistent tail biter and in the 10 months since she bought him he has routinely eaten more than half the length of his tail off. She tells me it does start to grow back but despite her best efforts he just always chomps it back down again (she had concluded that perhaps it is just too heavy for him and he likes it shorter).
I am keen to troubleshoot this problem behaviour and help this little guy to be happy and healthy if I can, hopefully breaking the tail biting habit and grow back his fins to their gorgeous natural size. But I am definitely not a betta/fish expert. I have owned numerous Betta's in the past and none of them ever bit their own tail.
I am using the Seachem Prime Water Conditioner (as was his previous owner) and I was wondering if I could also start using the Seachem Stress Coat as part of his everyday water content and if that would help the growing process for his tail? Also looking for clarity about whether this product is used WITH the prime water conditioner, or instead of, or only ever meant to be used in a treatment/hospital tank to encourage repair of visible wounds instead of as an always included product after water changes.
His previous owner assures me that although he has been a tail biter since his day one with her - that he has never suffered fin rot as a result.
I have been shown the photos of how he looked when he was younger and she had just purchased him and at that time he had zero tail damage – his tail was full and beautiful so I know the behaviour started once he made the move.
Since I agreed to adopt him - I have been researching like crazy about ways people find work with their tail biters to break the habit and repair the tail.
Poor little guy.
What I know of his history:
He was purchased in Asia and then transported in a suitcase.
Since then he has been living in a glass bowl that is about 3 gallons (for about 9 months now).
No filter.
No heater.
At least once if not twice a week 100% water changes.
Owner’s feeding routine was giving him 4 Hikari baby pellets a day for food (usually given at four spaced out / different times of the day, so one pellet each feeding time) – on one day of the week though he was getting frozen blood worms.
He has had the 3 gallon bowl all to himself but I believe his glass tank was sitting next to another glass betta bowl in his previous home.
I have taken him in and purchased the bowl he has been living in from his previous owner.
I am just about to place an order for completely new decorations such as plants / floating log / mirror etc to just experiment and gradually swap out one by one all of the decorations he currently has and has always had in his bowl and see if perhaps one of the objects in his environment has been the tail biting trigger.
I've also read that sometimes just moving the position of the tank or the lighting in the room etc can be enough to break the cycle (depending on why the fish is doing it) and so will wait a week before changing decorations to see if he is happier just from being in his new location inside my home.
Very keen to help this little guy repair his beautiful tail because the photos of him are truly stunning before he ate his fins back to kind of delta size but also because this behaviour doesn’t seem to be an indication of a happy, stable, content little fish.
From all my research, and in trying to pin point the WHY he is doing it - he does not fit the criteria of a 'highly aggressive' or 'skittish/neurotic' fish...so I'm leaning toward he may have always been too bored, too hungry or it is a hereditary bad habit. He seems like a happy guy, doesn’t act sluggish, or scared and is always eager to come straight up to the surface to greet me for food. Spends most of the day just calmly swimming all around this bowl.
I have read about the possible solution of getting him some companion fish to see if that keeps him more occupied and less interested in his tail but as he has never ever had tank mates before I would like to try all the more subtle changes first. If it gets to this point; How many companion fish would you say is a happy and safe mix in a 3 gallon tank with just one betta? (and which companion fish would be most recommended).
So any other advice you can offer regarding successfully repairing his fins – but most importantly stopping the biting would be appreciated.
I am also interested to hear from Betta owners who swear by or swear off the Moss balls (both the Marimo live Balls and the Fluval imitations – and the pro’s and con’s of live v’s artificial in an uncycled tank).
Lastly, is anyone able to tell me if you have ever heard or seen any info regarding whether dried blood worms are known to cause constipation / digestive problems with betta’s. As compared with using the frozen blood worm cubes?
His previous owner loved him very very very very much and I’m sure she took very good care of him and all her other betta’s (he was the only tail biter she had) – She had tried many things to break his bad habit and is knowledgeable about betta’s but I still have my fingers crossed he may be able to be helped.
He has been with me a few days now and I have not actually caught him in the tail biting act – but I am preparing myself because I have been shown pictures by his previous owner of him with part of his tail still hanging out of his mouth!!!
Thank you very much for any help you can offer and also for sharing your time.
Reply to forum questions 4.11.12
- Previous owner described his behaviour to me as 'being his own barber' because he always eats his tail back whenever it starts to grow back to healthy/normal size for a half moon.
I have not really read anything concrete on the subject though - as you say everyone seems to be experiementing with different solutions for every different little fish.
I am certainly not an expert and at this point I still feel this habit is so sad and he must not be happy - because I have not read anything that supports that it is 'natural or normal' for these guys to 'trim' their own tails to their desired lengths.
Have you seen anything supporting this behaviour as completely healthy in some of the betta's who just dont want a huge tail?
-His previous owner told me she kept her house at a constant 24 degrees celsius.
So before I took him in I turned my climate control unit setting to 24 degrees celsius also, so as to reduce the stress induced by all the changes/moving house for him. I've been trying to keep everything as consistent as possible for him since taking him on so I could avoid a sudden shock death and also monitor his usual behaviuour.
He has been with me two nights now and despite his previous owner never doing so and feeling if the room temp stayed consistent so will his water - I have inserted a digital thermometer into his tank so I can monitor what I assume will happen even with the climate control set, thus being unavoidable changes throughout the day just based on night v's day time etc and sunlight/warmth/heat through the rooms windows at different levels throughout the day.
I realised today his water was still reporting too cool for him though - so I have pushed my room climate control aircon up to 26 degrees. Am hoping once the room warms up this will have a positive effect on his water temp rising.
-He has been in a 3 gallon tank.
By himself.
I've kept him in the exact same tank at my place.
He has a little house down the bottom that I am told he has always had and he likes to pop in and out of there, especially likes to sleep in there.
There is a little penny wort plant on top of the house.
And there is a fake floating lily that I have been told he likes to make bubble nests under.
I can see that at present there is not enough hiding, playing or resting space scattered inside the main space of the tank though as the shape of the tank means the base is quite small and fits only the sleeping house and the penny wort that sits on top of the house is too small to provide 'near surface' resting spots or for him to play/hide between foliage etc.
So I have today placed an online order for a few new things to switch around and experiment with which will hopefully arrive in about two weeks:
Exercise floating mirror
Mini floating betta log with feeding hole
Different types of floating lily options
Variety of different types and sizes of silk plants to try out
Seachem stress guard
And I am going to keep an eye out for a different little sleeping house to sit on the bottom where his current one is that he really likes, just in case something about the shape or colour of the current one is upsetting to him.
Observation note Tuesday 6.11.12 My lounge room now reporting at 26 degrees. This is the first day of blood worm feeding with me – seems like he absolutely loves them. Grabs them at the surface and even swims down to get them as they start to sink. Then later this night was his first water change with me. Used the Seachem Prime from his old owner, and did not put his green elephant house back into his bowl because the space inside it is really small and I have read about tail biters who do it when they are inside their ‘cave’ or ‘house’ and removing that object can stop the tail biting trigger. I am going to buy him another house but one that has a much bigger space inside so perhaps his fins feel less squashed or irritated when he tries to sleep inside it. After I changed the water I put him back into his bowl and he seems very happy and calm.
Observation note Wednesday 7.11.12 Today I added some Seachem Stress Coat to his bowl (because my order for it arrived today). He didn’t really react at all after I added it BUT later in the evening when I went over to talk to him he flared at me – which his owner says he never does and which I had never seen him do to us. So I watched him for a while from a distance. He actually seemed agitated. He was swimming all around, up and down, but his swimming seemed a bit frantic, not his usual cruising calmly swimming around. I was quite worried but did not know if perhaps this was him ‘at his best’, or not feeling hungry, or maybe with warmer water than he was use to so just acting ‘natural’….not sure if it was a good thing or bad thing….worried he was reacting negatively to the Seachem Stress I had added to his water earlier because I know that product has never been used with him in the past. Later on he did seem to settled down a little and go to rest/sleep on the bottom of his bowl like he usually does when the lights are turned off.
Observation note & forum post Thurs 8.11.12: He came up for his breakfast pellet, did not flare when he saw me and ate the pellet normally. He seems calm again today. His water is reporting colder this morning though as the sun is not coming through the window properly yet and the room is reporting at 25 degrees. Seems to be hanging out just kind of staying near the surface of the water. I am staying home today so will keep a close eye on him, The good news is – Since he arrived here on Friday – I have not seem any damage to his tail, nor have I caught him attacking or even being interested in his tail. But that could change because his owner said he only eats it once it starts to grow back past the length ‘he likes’…and at the moment, the tail is short and I can not actually see any ‘new growth’ or transparent ends that look like it is growing back, so, fingers crossed IF it tries to grow he will just leave it alone now.
Delivery information for his new decorations that I ordered online looks like they will arrive on Monday which is great.
Bad news is I can not locally source either of the food pellets that were recommended (Omega One Betta Pellets & New Life Spectrum Betta Pellets) – and Amazon suppliers will not ship either of them to my location. Planning to have a look for a different source online that I can order and have them delivered from.
1) Does anyone know a reliable/trusted supplier online who will ship me the food products mentioned in the notes at a reasonable price and who accepts pay pal?
2) Can anyone tell me if it is safe to use an artificial ‘Fluval Moss Ball’ (the fake version of the live Marimo Balls) inside a 3 gallon tank? I am asking because the product specs on the Fluval Ball say it treats tanks from 10-20 gallons, so am wondering if it would be ‘too strong’ in however it is supposed to work or harmful at all to put it inside a 3 gallon tank. (Just looking at it for entertainment purposes really – but if it does help with the water then that is a bonus).
3) Can anyone suggest the most likely reason for the sudden change of ‘frantic/aggressive’ personality I saw on the night of Wednesday 7.11.12 – Could it have had something to do with the Seachem Stress liquid I added to his bowl – and from your experience, can you tell me if it does actually sound like it was a negative or positive behaviour change?
Observation note Saturday 10/11/12:
Amazon fish related order arrived this morning.
Completed 100% water change with Seachem Prime and Stress Coat.
Added 2 x new silk plants (one looks like a penny wort replica the other has tall long fern type leaves) and also added a small zoo-med betta floating log with feeding hole.
Put fish back into his tank with the newtoys – he was calm, seemed happy, floated around calmly-looked to be exploring his new decorations but did not seem stressed by any of it nor did he seem to be avoiding any of the pieces. Within 5 minutes of being put into his bowl he was even swimming straight through the floating betta log, inside, outside, all around – took a pellet through the feeding hole - he even used the bulb of wood on the outside to rest his nose on and seemed very happy with it.
Probably about an hour later I was watching him from the couch – he swan inside his log and then the next minute he was thrashing round in circles like Ive never seen him do before anywhere in his tank.
I moved from the couch and sat by his tank, watching and my hubby sat watching from the other end. After another few minutes he swam back inside the floating betta log – it looked like once he was inside he then relaxed and tried to settle down inside it – his fins floated/expanded/branched out – and he immediately then started thrashing round and round in circles, like he was trying to attack his fins – perhaps because they hit the inside of the log and he thought he was being attacked by something or…?
I took the floating betta log straight out if his tank.
Then put in a new floating lily pad instead. (almost exactly the same as the one he has always had in there)
It looks like there is new damage now to the longest part of his back fin and also a chunk out of his tail fin – but it is really hard to know for sure because I have not seen new damage before and his tail is pretty ragged already from past abuse).
I plan to watch him carefully over the next week – now that I have seen this new frenzied tail attack behaviour, it seems quite feasible that his little house that he had always had but that I did take out of his tank a few days after he moved in with me, was the tail biting trigger. I had removed that little house and never saw him showing any interest in his tail until I gave him the floating betta log – which once inside that it I could clearly see what was happening.
I am slightly concerned now that his new silk plants that branch out through his bowl…which I had hoped would give him new ‘hiding’ and playing and exploring stimulation could in fact trigger the same behaviour – as he swims by the leaves they could touch his fins and set him off on the circling tail attacks – but I have not seen that reaction caused by the leaves yet and he has been swimming in between them and all around the bowl today – something to watch out for though.
At present it appears the behaviour is only triggered when his fins are touched inside a ‘confined space’.
Hubby is concerned that now he does not have a ‘house’ or ‘cave/log’ he can go into whenever he wants that will not be able to get enough ‘dark time’ to sleep properly or enough when he needs to. Hubby has suggested that if he does has this specific confined space tail biting trigger and that is the reason he attacks it all the time/never lets it grow back properly – that perhaps we need to start covering his bowl with a towel/sheet or something to make it dark for him…in place of giving him a ‘cave’ to go inside. I want to do more research to see if that is necessary.
I have Attisons betta pellets being shipped from the IBC. Still yet to find supplier who will ship here and has Omega One or New Life Spectrum pellets tho.
Observation note Sunday 11/11/12
Added one more silk plant to his bowl today. (3 in total now plus floating lily pad)
He appears so much more confident and brave when it comes to the silk plants today. I have been watching him try different and new routes of getting around and between the plants – have seen him seem to be resting on/squished between the bunched leaves of the pennywort.
Have not yet seen with my own eyes him spin in tail attack circles any time the leaves have touched his fins.
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Thank you for your time.
