Can i bend your ears for advise pls

Russjw

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I was watching my tank sunday night and i noticed one of my barbs rubbed itself of the substrate so after watching closely she did it again later on.

I knew this could be a sign somethings irritating her so i checked my water params and my nitrate was higher than usual. (Think this was down to more food going in for shrimp and Otos and the barbs devouring 20 table spoons of duckweed. I had done an extra WC tho because of this) I did a substrate clean and a 75% water change and ive repeated this every night since. (All water params were back to normal after first WC)

But still every now and then i see one of the barbs rub off a leaf or the sand. Theres no
physical sign of white spots or clamping of thins etc they look perfectly healthy otherwise.

Would you guys & girls just keep water changing till this stops. Not sure what it could be...????
 
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Byron

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It is most likely ich. Flashing (the rapid scrape of the gill area on plant leaves, substrate, wood, rock, etc, can be due to water issues, gill flukes, ich, velvet, and who knows what else. But in most cases it is ich. Ignore it for the present. Keep the fish as free as possible of any stress.

Ich is said to be present in many home aquaria. Fish when healthy and not subjected to stress can easily fight it off; some suggest they even build some form of immunity. [There must be truth in this, or fish in the wild would all have died off long ago from ich.] But any stress, especially if it becomes severe, can weaken the immune system and the fish generally, and that is when ich can break through the normal defenses of the fish. Stress and stress alone causes ich to become serious; 95% of all fish disease is due to stress with the organism present obviously, but it is the stress that brings on the disease.

Ich first attacks a fish in the gills, so we do not see any white spots, and the fish flashes to dislodge the parasite. When spots do appear, the fish has obviously been weakened by stress to the point that it can no longer fight it off successfully. At that point I would raise the temperature to 86F (30 C) for two weeks. But I never do this just with flashing unless spots are clearly evident. This temperature will kill ich, though sometimes it can be a particularly severe or stubborn outbreak and salt can be used. But usually thee fish either fight it off, or the heat achieves success.
 
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Russjw

Russjw

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It is most likely ich. Flashing (the rapid scrape of the gill area on plant leaves, substrate, wood, rock, etc, can be due to water issues, gill flukes, ich, velvet, and who knows what else. But in most cases it is ich. Ignore it for the present. Keep the fish as free as possible of any stress.

Ich is said to be present in many home aquaria. Fish when healthy and not subjected to stress can easily fight it off; some suggest they even build some form of immunity. [There must be truth in this, or fish in the wild would all have died off long ago from ich.] But any stress, especially if it becomes severe, can weaken the immune system and the fish generally, and that is when ich can break through the normal defenses of the fish. Stress and stress alone causes ich to become serious; 95% of all fish disease is due to stress with the organism present obviously, but it is the stress that brings on the disease.

Ich first attacks a fish in the gills, so we do not see any white spots, and the fish flashes to dislodge the parasite. When spots do appear, the fish has obviously been weakened by stress to the point that it can no longer fight it off successfully. At that point I would raise the temperature to 86F (30 C) for two weeks. But I never do this just with flashing unless spots are clearly evident. This temperature will kill ich, though sometimes it can be a particularly severe or stubborn outbreak and salt can be used. But usually thee fish either fight it off, or the heat achieves success.
Thank you Byron, ill keep a close eye on them for now then and act once i can see signs of any spots etc.

Would my Oto's, Amano's and snails be ok at 30c if it does turn out to be ich do you know?
 

Byron

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Thank you Byron, ill keep a close eye on them for now then and act once i can see signs of any spots etc.

Would my Oto's, Amano's and snails be ok at 30c if it does turn out to be ich do you know?
I will not comment re the shrimp but leave that for others. I cannot see snails being killed by a brief period of higher temperatures. And most fish can deal with this; I did this in my cory tank a few years ago on the advice of Neal Monks and just ensured the surface disturbance was increased significantly to keep oxygeen entering the water. The cories showed no signs of rapid respiration and I cannot recall them surface breaching more either.
 
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Russjw

Russjw

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Ive done a bit of digging and it looks like most shrimp will be ok at 30c. Hopefully i wont have to do that but least i know i can turn the temp up if needed.

Cheers Byron
 

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That explanation makes sense. I have occasionaly seen a single fish flashing and watched closely without doing anything. I have never thought about it too hard because it aways stops quickly and I have never seen any other symptoms (spots or otherfish doing the same). It is many years (perhaps even decades) since I have had an actual outbreak of ich - and that was well before I was disciplined about weekly changes.
 

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Good info, Byron. I have a couple of fish with a spot on them and was questioning how they could get Ich. I did battle a disease in the tank and stress was elevated, I’m sure. Great job of explaining what we should already know but often forget. Russ, I’m watching too for now. They seem to be fighting it on their own. Fingers crossed for both of us.
 

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That explanation makes sense. I have occasionaly seen a single fish flashing and watched closely without doing anything. I have never thought about it too hard because it aways stops quickly and I have never seen any other symptoms (spots or otherfish doing the same). It is many years (perhaps even decades) since I have had an actual outbreak of ich - and that was well before I was disciplined about weekly changes.
Same here. If it stops quickly with no other symptoms theres not much to do, except maybe a water change... maybe the fish just had an itch ;)
 

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It's all too easy to overfeed, miss a water change (or two), not notice a fish that's died and is hidden in some strange place....All leading to poor water quality. The problem is that all tanks are very small bodies of water and it doesn't take much for elevated pollution to adversely affect fish. Flashing can be a result of the irritation resulting from poor water quality. The best "medicine" is often fresh water as it acts like a tonic. Failing this, Byron's advice (as always) of elevating tank temperature to 86F/30C for ich, is a good, easy measure. However, there are two considerations: 1) DON'T overreact. Often as well meaning, good fishkeepers, we spring into action the minute we see something wrong and take measures that really aren't necessary and sometimes do more harm than good. And 2) Anytime the temperature in a tank is high, there is less oxygen in the water. So, as mentioned, it's always a good idea to have an airstone or some other means of increasing surface turbulence to ensure good gas exchange.
 
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Russjw

Russjw

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Ill be gutted if they get ich. Im religious when it comes to my tank maintance.

Ive had no deaths in this tank yet, i dont over feed and do 75% water changes every week without fail.

Only thing i can think of is the barbs chomped through a load of duckweed very quickly over a 2 day period and obviously its got to come out aswell. I did do an extra water change mid week because of this but extra food wises other than that theres only been a few algae wafers/shrimp pellets and a few cucumber slices over the week since having my otos. Less than my 100 litre as.
 

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Are there any cucumbers left? What temperature is your water usually at? I have you recently added any new décor?
 

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Ive done a bit of digging and it looks like most shrimp will be ok at 30c. Hopefully i wont have to do that but least i know i can turn the temp up if needed.

Cheers Byron
Even if it is ich, your shrimp will be fine. I just stocked my tank and of course, pretty quickly got ich. Turned the tank temp up and didn't do anything else. My amanos and everyone but the plants were fine. Plants have melted a little, so I turned the temp back to normal (79F) after a week, and there are no signs of ich left and everyone seems healthy. The increased heat REALLY works!!
 
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Russjw

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Even if it is ich, your shrimp will be fine. I just stocked my tank and of course, pretty quickly got ich. Turned the tank temp up and didn't do anything else. My amanos and everyone but the plants were fine. Plants have melted a little, so I turned the temp back to normal (79F) after a week, and there are no signs of ich left and everyone seems healthy. The increased heat REALLY works!!
Thats good to know, thanks for that :)
 
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Russjw

Russjw

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Increased heat does work, if you want faster results, you could always get some medication.
Dont really want to put med's in if i dont have to. If i do ever get ich ill try the heat method :) at the moment im just keeping their water spotless and keeping a close eye on them
 
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