Can A Water Change Be Too Dramatic?

[ColR1948]

I was reading an article where a young lady just topped up her water when it evaporated and never did a water change, she didn't know any different.
A friend advised her to test her water and do a water change, she did a large change and the next day most of her fish were dead, the reason was they had adjusted to her original water even though it wasn't good.
In the article it said instead of a large change, if she had done a smaller gradual change her fish wouldn't have been stressed and the shock of the new even though it was better water wouldn't have killed them.

Her friend who advised her often did water changes and never had this problem, so was the reason because the fish had got used to the the fresh new water the friend did where as the young lady's water was more of a shock to her fish and that is why some of them died?

In some ways it seems to make sense, again this brings me to the threads you read where people advise to do a large water change, if it is a spike then I suppose that advice is correct but if someone has never done a change then perhaps a smaller one bit by bit might be better so what do you all think?

 

[roadmaster]

I would agree, Regular water changes weekly, would prevent sudden change in water chemistry that happen's when water changes are infrequent.
Is the sudden change, even for the better that causes osmoregulatory problem's with fishes.
In cases where ammonia or nitrites spikes are observed, then the large water change would be the path forward and less harmful than the ammonia,nitrites would be on the fish.

 

[PrairieSunflower]

I agree too, the sudden change of environment is the problem rather than the size of water changes. I think of it like if you took me from the level of oxygen I am used to breathing and in a snap placed me on top of a mountain with very little oxygen... I would have a really hard time adjusting... its sort of what happens to fish if you change their environment too quickly.

I change my tank's water between 50-80% every 3-4 days... but I ALWAYS do it that way so its never a shock.

 

[star4]

Most likely just topping off the tank didnt affect the chemistry that much, however its not good. Regular waterchanges are needed to balance out the water chemisty as various minerals etc get used up. There is a syndrome known as old tank syndrom where everything has been fine for ages with no water changes but suddenly everything dies, usually all the ph buffers are used up and the ph crashes. Most likely this person just topping off the tank every so ofter just held on enough to keep the ph from crashing but it would have been low, the large wc with a higher ph is what most likely killed the fish.

 

[Chad]

In a reef tank too large of a change can be devistating. As mentioned it's not so much the amount of water but what that water means to the tank. pH, temp, nutrients, calcium, etc. should be kept pretty stable and a large change can really mess that up in a hurry.

 

[iantaylor]

i have a 200ltr food grade plastic drum which is filled up from my HMA filter, it is heated to the same temp of my aquarium
so doing a large water change is no problem to me but i do know a lot of people cant do what i do.
Also agree with star4 you must check the water chemistry regular, i do mine the the before i do a water change.

 

[snazy]

Obviously, in a tank where no water changes were done, just top ups, the total dissolved solids, ph, etc.. can be completely different than the initial tap water and a big water change if done too fast can kill the fish in some circumstances. That doesn't mean that the neglected tank won't kill the fish anyway early or later. The amount of dissolved organics, nitrates, metals, etc.. that accumulate in a tank with just top ups will either bring disease outbreaks or lead to ph crashes, ammonia/nitrite spikes, etc... So one needs to apply common sense rather earlier than later and start doing small daily water changes, increasing slightly the amount until the tank water quality is near that of the new fresh water replaced, whether this is tap water or some ro/mineral enriched water depending on the tank occupants and tank type.

 

[ColR1948]

That's more or less what I was saying in my initial post, the lady didn't know any different so just topped up.
You are right the fish probably would have died in the near future but she brought that future nearer by the big water change.

On this subject I have a cousin who had a tank and I was talking to her about testing water and changing, she said, "You are not one of them that believe all that rubbish are you?" Later in the conversation she was telling me about the fish she that had died, "Probably a bad batch," she said. I said, "So you don't think it was the water then?" She wouldn't have it, she was so sure what she did was right, so you can't educate some people, I just felt sorry that the fish didn't need to die because of her ignorance.

 

[PrairieSunflower]

I know someone who has a goldfish... those really pretty ones, large, long and thin with a mermaid type tail (forget what they are called, not a fancy)... she has it in a bowl... and I was over and thought it was dead (floating on its side at the top, very still)... and she informed me it does that all the time and has for 2 years... she is sure its normal (kept in about a 5 galon bowl...)

 

[star4]

I sold a complete tank a couple of years ago to someone who had never kept fish before, they were here nearly two hours while I explained everything to her, hubby insisted on helping her take the tank to her house and set it up. She had my phone number and boy did she use it. I helped out every phone call then one night at 1am I got a call saying the filter was making a noise. I told her turn it off increase the air from the air pump and I would be over in the morning. Dutifully I went, she had by this time had the tank near 9 months, OMG she had stuffed so many fish in it they could hardly swim (I sold her the tank fully stocked) I had to remove a load of fish (including dead ones) and clean out the filter. I ordered her a larger external filter and went and fitted it once it had arrived. A few weeks later I got a call, "my tank looks funny and smells horried" I got there and I couldnt see the fish, she had bought yet more fish, so again I sorted out the tank removing more fish. Two months later another call, a friends tank had split and this lady had took in the fish, but her tank was "funny again" again vastly overstocked so I removed the fish she didnt like, and cleaned out the filter again. She claims to do water changes, but no way that water is changed weekly like she says. I have had to call it a day, after nearly two years of sorting out her mess and her not listening to my advise I now refuse to answer the phone, its bad for the fish and it breaks my heart to think of the state they have to live in.

Some people never learn

 

[NewBea]

WOW - unbelievable - I'm surprised you helped her as long as you did! It's one thing to be a novice at fish keeping - I count myself to be one - but it's a whole other thing not to listen to advice! I'm so glad that I joined this forum as I already had a lot of help from experienced fish owners - and I would hate myself if I caused them poor little creatures to die - even if it was just down to lack of experience. The lady you mentioned never even had to "self educate" herself - you offered all the advice and help she needed.

My mother in law told me that they had fish when her sons were younger. She said the only "problem with fish" that they keep dieing. I told her about the stuff I read and heard and she said that she used to give fresh water to the fish as well, but I bet all that she was doing was just topping up the tank - like the old lady in the initial story. She did say however that she had a book that she read and back then there wasn't much help available other than local shops - and we all know what sort of advice they normally give. I read a tropical fish tank book as well, but it didn't give enough detail on any aspects of tank keeping at all - they were barely scratching the surface really.
It really makes me wonder how people kept fish in the old days where even people who meant well and wanted to do the right thing still didn't have enough information on how to do things the right way. There must have just believed that fish only live for a few months.

Oh and can I just add that hats off to some of the experienced guys in here who must have been giving advice to newbies like myself for years and still have the patience to explain things in a nice and helpful way even to people who clearly have done no research or reading before they started up a tank whatsoever and make the stupidest mistakes possible. It's great that we have a pool of people that we can rely on for help!

 

[star4]

I am known locally as the mad fish woman as I take in any fish in trouble, I have had all sorts of fish dropped off or phone calls for help, my vets phoned me once because someone brought 3 guppies into the surgery in a soup bowl and left them on the counter!! I will help anyone who asks for my help as far as I can but that woman started taking the p

 

[The Taffy Apple]

That's more or less what I was saying in my initial post, the lady didn't know any different so just topped up.
You are right the fish probably would have died in the near future but she brought that future nearer by the big water change.

On this subject I have a cousin who had a tank and I was talking to her about testing water and changing, she said, "You are not one of them that believe all that rubbish are you?" Later in the conversation she was telling me about the fish she that had died, "Probably a bad batch," she said. I said, "So you don't think it was the water then?" She wouldn't have it, she was so sure what she did was right, so you can't educate some people, I just felt sorry that the fish didn't need to die because of her ignorance.ie

Unfortunately, there are two kinds of fish keepers... those that keep fish, to look at and enjoy... and those that keep fish AND water, to look at and enjoy.
I bought my current tank from an 'old-school' (his words, not mine) aquarist who didn't believe in fishless cycles. He didn't believe in water testing and he didn't believe in regular water changes. I have, to a certain degree, changed this fella's attitude towards tropical fish, so much so it has reignited his love for the hobby and he is soon to take a mature media seeding from me to complete a fishless cycle on a new, 200L tank.
Point people, if they are willing to listen, to the comments, evidence and facts on this forum..it will allow them to look at fish tanks differently.

Terry.

 

[ColR1948]

@Star 4, leave us your telephone number we might need you to come over.

 

[iantaylor]

I used to work at a large Aquatic retailer
and some people just never learn you can sort out there aquarium time and time again and you might as well be banging your head against a brick wall.
we used to set up aquariums in offices and every month would be the same removing dead fish and un-eaten food a nightmare