Betta help tropical fish emergency

mll6966

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my betta had a small tiny bump on his dorsal back in march it slowly got bigger so I did a round of kanaplex. Didn't see a change. It got to the point where it looks like it fell off but just went up to under dorsal and took over... I just did my second round of kanaplex. The first pic is the first day, the second is the third day and to me, it looks worse! Any thoughts?

Tank parameters:

nitite 0
ammonia 0
nitrate 10-15
ph 7
gh and kh in range, don't have the numbers on hand

I keep up with water changes


temp always around 80 but I lowered it to 78.5 ish for more oxogen, air stone running

He was swimming fine for a while during the second round of kanaplex, 6 weeks after the first very lethargic sitting on betta leaf but still very happy to eat anything, after kanaplex and salt ended 2 days ago he's swimming around fine but his fin is not healing ???? I ordered paragaurd but am reluctant to put it in my planted ... thoughts help


Help please
 

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mll6966

mll6966

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Colin_T

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Probably a drug resistant bacterial infection. It has already eaten his tail so I would euthanise him. Then sterilise the tank and contents before starting again.

This next bit applies to anyone. If your fish get sick, ask for help immediately. The sooner the disease is identified, the more chance of saving the fish (or animal).
 
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mll6966

mll6966

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Probably a drug resistant bacterial infection. It has already eaten his tail so I would euthanise him. Then sterilise the tank and contents before starting again.
I'm sorry but euthanize him? That is out of the question. He is still extremely active reactive to his name and doesn't tail bite.. He's never nipped his tail once, he's the happiest fish ever, I even have a 2k camera on his tank at all times, in case I travel, which I don't unless it was a day but I care that much so I can review everything..
 
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mll6966

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Probably a drug resistant bacterial infection. It has already eaten his tail so I would euthanise him. Then sterilise the tank and contents before starting again.

This next bit applies to anyone. If your fish get sick, ask for help immediately. The sooner the disease is identified, the more chance of saving the fish (or animal).
 
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mll6966

mll6966

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He just had this happen, thats why I am asking for help
 

Colin_T

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my betta had a small tiny bump on his dorsal back in march it slowly got bigger so I did a round of kanaplex. Didn't see a change. It got to the point where it looks like it fell off but just went up to under dorsal and took over... I just did my second round of kanaplex. The first pic is the first day, the second is the third day and to me, it looks worse! Any thoughts?
I thought this started back in March?

Either way, something is eating him alive, probably bacteria. The Kanamycin (Kanaplex) hasn't helped.

You can take him to a fish vet and get them to take a swab of the area and culture it to find out what bacteria is causing it, and hopefully have an antibiotic to save him. This could cost a lot of money.

You can try one of the broad spectrum medications that kill bacteria and fungus but aren't antibiotics.

You can leave him to slowly get eaten away by the bacteria and fungus that is in the wound.

You can euthanise him.

If you really want to try and save him, get a broad spectrum medication that kills bacteria and fungus but isn't an antibiotic, and treat him with that and some salt. Use the medication and salt at the same time to try and kill the infection. However, if it continues, the fish should be euthanised so it doesn't suffer.

--------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.
 
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mll6966

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He had a tiny dot in march, come June it was maybe quarter pea size, July it just took a turn for the worst, I have been in contact with my aquatic vet, I have been sending photos, and was first told to come in immediately, but the second photo, she said was it looks a bit like healing. These are different but I photo in the post, she said still come in but it's 200 for the first visit just to check him, plus I am guessing 700 plus for surgery, I would have to dive into my stock savings for that :( but, I would. I get paid on the 5th that's all I am waiting for. I was going to get methylene blue but he's a blue fish so it would be so hard to tell what do you think? I'm sorry if I came off aggressive
I'm just emotional
 
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mll6966

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This is the progression
 

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mll6966

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timestamps: first photo march 29rh
2nd April 14
3rd april 14
5th apri 18th
6th august 16
then each day by day, I have a bunch in between by airdrop didn't work too well

ps, I had a lovely cyano bloom in this photo reel thats taken care of now so don't mind the lovely blue-green
:/ just trying to keep happy hopes

also I don't know if they upoaded in order but you can tell the time by the little bump starting with the teal photo
 
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Just got this on my night came so he can still swim like a betta: side note no one is downstairs no lights or noise, but still need to fix dorsal
 

Colin_T

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If you really want to try and save him, get a broad spectrum medication that kills bacteria and fungus but isn't an antibiotic, and treat him with that and some salt. Use the medication and salt at the same time to try and kill the infection. However, if it continues, the fish should be euthanised so it doesn't suffer.
Methylene Blue is an option but there are a few newer products that might also work. Whatever you do, you need to start asap. The longer it is left without treatment, the more damage that will be done.
 

AdoraBelle Dearheart

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Wow, he’s in rough shape, poor guy. I’m sorry, but I don’t know what could be causing this. I’ll @ some of our disease experts.

@Colin_T @Slaphppy7 @AdoraBelle Dearheart @PheonixKingZ
Thank you so much for the tag and the vote of confidence! Sadly though, I'm far from a fish expert, let alone in diseases. I just often end up in the emergency threads because I can usually talk someone through an emergency first aid water change and my heart goes out to people having an emergency and I want to help where I can! Which usually just means urging a large water change and tagging @Colin_T for all else, since he really is the disease expert!

Hi OP. I do have to agree though that he's in very rough shape. Can someone link me to whichever product Parguard is, please? When I search I'm only getting results for the birth control device, and lots of US products aren't available in the UK. I don't want to advise trying a med when I don't know what's in it.

@mll6966 I'm sorry that this is happening to your fish, and that the news isn't great. @Colin_T might sound a little cold when he recommends euthanising him, because for you, he's your pet fish with a name and you can't imagine doing it while he's swimming around, but Colin is looking at the damage - look closely again at the progression in the photographs.. it isn't just that he's lost his tail. It has eaten into his body! No matter how active he is, that has to be causing a lot of pain, and the chances of successfully treating it at this late stage, without knowing the precise bacteria that's causing it, are incredibly low. But throwing random antibiotics at him in the hope it might work isn't a solution either, since it means extending his suffering while you try different antibiotic courses in a "hit 'em and hope" approach, and that kind of misuse of antibiotics is why we now have drug resistant bacteria at all, and drug resistant bacteria are killing humans as well as animals. Mis-using antibiotics without knowing what the actual bacteria involved is, in order to save a single pet fish that is unlikely to survive at this point - isn't something we can encourage in good faith for that reason.

So while Colin's bedside manner might be upsetting when you want to save your pet fish, he really is considering how painful that must be for the fish. I winced when I saw how much it had eaten into his body, that's a nasty infection. Had treatment begun back when the lump first appeared and grew in March, or when the tail first began to recede, we'd have a better chance of saving him. But now you can really only follow Colin's advice and try using the methylene blue (can still use it with a blue fish, but it will stain the silicone on your tank) or the broad spectrum non-antibiotic treatment until you can get him to a fish vet. But you need to start that urgently, because despite swimming around, and looking "happy" (we really cannot tell, as humans, if fish are happy" that poor betta is being eaten alive and is suffering.

The aquatic vet isn't likely to operate, more likely to take a scraping and identify which bacteria is involved, so an antibiotic can be chosen that targets the specific bacteria involved. But not many people will or can afford to take a £10 betta to an aquatic vet. So they end up trying random antibiotics hoping that they will work and causing more problems as I wrote above and extending the animal's suffering. If the vet says that he's too far gone and also recommends euthanising, then it would be best to listen to them, I'm sorry.

But this began back in March, he's only just had a second attempt at treatment, and you were reluctant to try a third, so the slowness in reacting/treating is a bit alarming to me... if you want to try to save him (and I completely understand that you can't face the idea of euthanising him yourself) and you truly are willing to take him to the aquatic vets as soon as possible - then you need to get hold of and start treating him with that broad spectrum non-antibiotic or methylene blue immmediately - go to a store to buy it I mean, rather than order it online and wait days for delivery, because the fish is being eaten alive and suffering.

I'm sorry I don't have more optimistic news for you. :(
 

AdoraBelle Dearheart

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Just got this on my night came so he can still swim like a betta: side note no one is downstairs no lights or noise, but still need to fix dorsal
Completely unimportant but have to let you know anyway - it's not his dorsal fin involved, the dorsal fin is the one on his back. It's the caudal fin being affected here, the tail. :)
Probably a drug resistant bacterial infection. It has already eaten his tail so I would euthanise him. Then sterilise the tank and contents before starting again.

This next bit applies to anyone. If your fish get sick, ask for help immediately. The sooner the disease is identified, the more chance of saving the fish (or animal).

Just wanted to stress this part of Colin's advice for you or anyone else who lurks to read the thread and is in a similar boat. If courses of antibiotics haven't worked, if the fish dies or needs to be euthanises because of a severe infection like this where the specific cause is unknown, it's far too risky to use the same tank/substrate/decor/plants and buy another betta and plop them in the same tank.

Steralising and starting over means binning everything that cannot be bleached, so pretty much the entire contents. Wood, stone, most substrates..
The tank itself can be cleaned with bleach, rinsed incredibly well, allowed to air dry, rinsed again with water and triple strength declorinator, rinsed thoroughly, allowed to air dry again. That should be enough to have killed off any bacteria and make the tank safe for use again. Some equipment can be soaked in a bleach solution - buckets, nets, filter and some filter media, like sponges, airline tubing. But a lot of that stuff is cheap and easier/safer to replace rather than trying to steralise if you're not sure how to do it properly. Some plants can survive a bleach dip, but many, especially the more expensive ones, won't, and most wouldn't risk it and bin the plants, substrate etc. Not worth the risk. I'd personally bleach the tank and filter itself, bin the rest and start over.
 

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