Bacteria In A Bottle, Does Is Work?

[snazy]

pH 8.4 (baking soda added
full bottleit
API Tap Water Conditioner
No water changes
It eventually cycled, about 23 days...

Thanks for that


When you say full bottle, what was the size of it and what size is the tank? Did you pour some of it in the filter?
Api tap water conditioner-one of them with the + on it with the slime coat stuff has also ammo lock in it and labels outside are nearly identical as I have both. Which one did you use?

From reading your log, you had the temperature on the high side most of the time and is above the maximum temperature if my F/C calculator is right. . Ammonia should definately not be over 4ppm as it causes tetra safe start bacteria to die at this level and above.
Obviously I never put any baking soda and I think if you needed to modify the Ph, then better wait after a cycle as it may change anyhow when everything settles.
The only other thing which may prove signifficant is if it works with pure ammonia, or only fish as Tetra recommends only fish in cycle with it, which will be a pity if its true
I guess I'll find out soon

Edit: Full of typing mistakes, but it's early morning here, sorry

 

[snazy]

Looking back at it, it might have helped more than I remembered. I look forward to your log. If we have documented proof of it working in fishless cycle, documented, then it could really help folks on this board. Personally, I'm still a bit skeptical. I might have just been lucky. Some cycles actually can happen this fast. Plus, I did everything I could to speed things up. I was WAY overfiltered on the tank. It was a 10 gallon tank, and I was using a Penguin 350 on the tank (which is rated up to 50+ gallons).

I'll definately open a thread for it. I think I'll dose less than 4ppm, maybe 3ppm only as during my fish in cycles I got about 2ppm spike of ammonia max on the first tank(although I wasn't completely sure whether it was 4ppm according to my hand written notes), but this lasted less than a day before the nitrite spike occured and was down to 0 then. The second tank never exceeded 1ppm ammonia at any stage. Nitrite spikes on both lasted 24 hours, maybe not exact, but tested 2 days in a row it was down to 0 by late evening the day after. Nitrite spikes on both were quite high, about 2-4ppm if I remember correct. I tested twice, maybe three times during that and I could see it steadily dropping. I reckon the nitrite bacteria starts growing soon after the ammonia bacteria as it was amazing how quickly it appeared and went down to 0

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Well, that's interesting.

I dosed baking soda because I've read that the "sweet spot" for the bacteria is between 8.0 and 8.4. (Obviously, you wouldn't do this with a fish-in cycle.) Also, the temp was kept at 84F, because that is also supposed to be the sweet spot for temp, as far as I had read as well.


The bottle was 3.38oz, which was supposed to be enough to dose a 30 gallon tank. I used the whole bottle. I poured it directly onto my "biowheel" over my tank. So whatever didn't go and "stick" to the biowheel was in the tank to be recycled around. The directions that came with it to me didn't include any of the instructions you posted earlier.


I will add though that I am NOT at all comfortable with the ammonia spiking to 2ppm or even 1ppm for ANY length of time and not doing a water change. That is just not a safe level for fish and can damage their gills long term. It just isn't right, IMHO. I have taken a deep breath of air that had a strong concentration of ammonia in it, and it burns like nothing I've ever experienced before or since. It took the better part of two hours for the pain of inhaling to disappear completely, and I was exposed to this ammonia for just a single breath before I immediately got to a fresh air source. (Imagine searing pain of Ben Gay or some other Menthol product when it comes into contact with sensitive areas, but in your lungs. )


Agreed that based on these instructions I might have been a bit over the limits on some things. But, as I said, I was unaware of them at the time. BTW, I wouldn't trust this or any other "instant" cycle product to protect my fish from ammonia poisoning. If I saw the ammonia or nitrite level higher than 0.25ppm, I'd do a water change, because it is the right thing to do. I'd like to see the product work though in a fishLESS cycle though. Maybe starting at 1ppm ammonia and slowly building to 3ppm would be better for it too?



As far as the dechlorinator I used. It is as I said: API's "Tap Water Conditioner"

 

[snazy]

I am not sure what ammount tetrasafe start amount in ml you have used, but I used 250ml bottle for 30G
I need to buy another ammonia test kit anyway, and if they have the one that tests for toxic and not toxic ammonia, I will get that to check if tetrasafe has any additives that make any kind of conversion. Because as I mentioned previously,it is strange that the fish were acting like they had perfect water conditions. As far as the invisible damage, that's why I'll try with ammonia this time and not fish as it was really hard to resist no water changes while testing twice a day
My Ph was 7.6. I don't think the value matters as long as it is not below around 6 or below as this will affect the useful ammonia and subsequently the bacteria.

The directions that came with it to me didn't include any of the instructions you posted earlier.

I don't think they'll ever put on the bottle as part of the instructions not to change the water while your fish is swimming in ammonia Imagine that everyone will start claiming from them regardless the cause of death of the fish

 

[snazy]

I went to the shop and they only had the Api ammonia test
In regards to the Ph, I just read on Dr Tim's Aquatics website(the one that helped in developing the original version of Tetra Safe Start-Bio spira) that Ph should not be let to drop befow 7.

 

[snazy]

I posted this link in another thread, but it gives plenty of information on how the bacteria in Tetra Safe start works. It is Dr Tim's website, whose research is responsible for the development of Bio Spira and also the non-refrigerated versions of it like Tetra Safe start:

http/www.drtimsaqu...ac65d0f9-7.html

 

[BigbruiserAl]

Personally, I can't wait for that thread.

I did every one of those steps, except my ammonia was 5ppm. And got nothing with it.

yeah will be good read

Snazy when you added your fish after 7 days did you any spikes at all however small in anyting expect nirate then?
What do you use do your test please?

 

[snazy]

Snazy when you added your fish after 7 days did you any spikes at all however small in anyting expect nirate then?
What do you use do your test please

I actually did a fish in cycle, so fish were already in. I got my first two 0s on day 8 and nitrate was quite high, maybe 40-80 on the Api test, but definately in the red zone. I am certain it cycled completely because I kept testing nearly every day. Ammonia and nitrite were constant 0s, besides after I thoroughly washed the filter media a few weeks later, but that was gone in less than a day and never re-appeared.
I added 14 more 1-2 month old fry to the same tank and it still didn't cause a detectable reading on the Api test.

 

[BigbruiserAl]

oh i see i must have got it wrong, so you did a fish cycle and added the tera safe in to give a boost that would make much more sence?

 

[snazy]

oh i see i must have got it wrong, so you did a fish cycle and added the tera safe in to give a boost that would make much more sence?

Yep, that's correct. I bought my second tank, added substrate and dechlorinated water(Api tap safe) and waited for a 1-2 days to get the temperature right and make sure there was no cloudiness from the substrate(some river type coarse sand). Then I added the fish and poured double the amount of tetra safe start-some in the filter, some in the water. Ammonia was detectable on day 2-3, by day 5-6 nitrite reached a spike. I poured some tetra safe start again when I saw nitrites. I did no water changes as this is one of the conditions. Ammonia was down to 0 maybe day 6, nitrite spike only lasted 1 day and on day 8 I had double 0s for ammonia and nitrites and nitrates were on the rise.

I am hoping to do the same with my third tank when it arrives, but this time fishless, with ammonia instead.

 

[Fishy friend2]

Oh cool,I'm definnately gonna follow your Fishless cycle with tetra safe, does any one know if API's stress zyme actually works, because that's what I'm using right now

 

[snazy]

API's stress zyme

This stuff didn't work for me, just the Tetra safe start

 

[Fishy friend2]

Okay, thanks, I'm adding it to my aquarium weekly. So i guess that there is really no point to it

 

[Primous]

In short buying that bottled nonsese is a waste of money in the truest sense of the word. When you take a mere peek at the facts.

We as hobbyists are concerned with 2 bacterias. The first is Nitrosomonas it converts ammonia into nitrite. The second is Nitrospira which converts nitrite into nitrate. These bacterias have two characteristics we as hobbyists and for the sake of this conversation need to pay close attention to.

A. They need oxygen in the water to live
B. They need a 'food' source to survive.

And C. None of these are available in a bottle. In the bottle they would have no source of food or oxygen. Packaged up in a bottle they would die!

D. It is a huge con! A successful con because nobody wants to go through the cycling process. I remember mine vividly, checking my stats daily. Huge water changes, cleaning up the inevitable spillage, and all this for 2 months plus? Yes it's what makes this con a success many (myself included at one point) are willing to consider. But take a peek at the scientific fact and you will see that it's faker than 3 dollar bill, the Jedi force (although im a huge star wars fan and am hoping for the 9 disc bluray for xmas) fairies and nhomes etc etc.

Take a look at the bottle and read the descriptions. Some will state that they've created a special blend of herbs and spices or elude to the fact that they have in fact created a new breed of bacteria. This is false wholly and utterly when you take into account the legal ramifications and multi millions upon millions involved in bringing a bio engineered "species" to market and then sending that species around the globe Others state that their product will "aid" your Nitrosomonas & Nitrospira. Scratch the surface scientifically and again you find that these claims are utterly false. There is no backup or substitute bacteria in the nitrogen cycle.

I took a while in responding to this properly because I was trying to find a blog I came cross a few years back. It was a hobbyist from the US who on entry to this blog got a lab to take a microscopic look into what is actually in these bottles. In some he found nothing whatsoever bar common bacteria that surround us. In others, chemicals which when combined create dechlor + regular bacterias. The second experiment was to swab some of the media from his external onto a petri dish as before. And though and behold under a microscope an abundance of Nitrosomonas & Nitrospira.

Bottled bacteria is a con! You've got to take into account that to us is a hobby but to others it's a business, a marketplace they intend to profit from. And I'm willing to bet that the return on a plastic bottle which claims to hold in abundance something you can't actually see with the naked eye (aka bacteria) the margins on that must be real profitable.

 

[Fishy friend2]

thanks for your input on this primous, it is really helpful.