Bacteria In A Bottle, Does Is Work?

[Fishy friend2]

Okay, thanks for the input big al, do you know where exactly the thread is?

 

[Akasha72]

when I was doing my fish-in cycle I used both API Stresszyme and a King British one called Safe Water. Both claim to 'aid' the bacteria and/or help to reduce ammonia. As I had ammonia in my tank and my fish were poorly I felt in my situation I had nothing to lose except my cash. I wanted to do anything to help things along a little and protect the fish. I felt it helped despite the posts here saying it was a waste of cash.

I think this debate will run on for days

 

[Fishy friend2]

Thanks for all the info, and lol. I hope you don't that doesn't happen alot

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I used SafeStart with a fishless cycle and it did nothing measurably noticeable. You would think that nitrates would show up quickly, they didn't happen for about 3-4 weeks. (Which is the same as most fishless cycles without the aid of any bacterial additives.)

Save your money and invest in a good dechlorinator. Using these products with a fish-in cycle will result in the need for lots of water changes. So, you might as well just get some Prime and do it the old-fashioned way... at least that one is actually proven to work with tons of documented evidence.

 

[Fishy friend2]

Okay, thanks,for clearing that up for me eagle, you've been a lot of help

 

[micko]

I've never used one to actually know whether they do work, or don't. The reason why I never tried is that I find it extremely hard to believe that the bacteria will stay alive in the bottle with nothing to feed on. If I can get proper proof (not a brand trying to sell their waste of a plastic bottle) then I would try it. Until then it can stay on the shelf.

 

[Fishy friend2]

Yeah that's what I thought, I just wanted to know becauseive heard of it working sometimes

 

[Fishy friend2]

so basically most times it doesnt work, and the ones that do work only help aid the cycle. not complete it. right

 

[Akasha72]

so basically most times it doesnt work, and the ones that do work only help aid the cycle. not complete it. right

I would say yes. I don't think you can buy anything that will do the full cycle for you. The products are there to aid the process. Whether or not they actually do anything is still open for debate

 

[eaglesaquarium]

+1

 

[Fishy friend2]

Okay, thank you

 

[snazy]

I have done 2 fish in cycles with Tetra safe start. Both finihed in a week time!! So yes, it does work and works wonderfully.

I may open another thread when I start cycling a 100G in a week or so. This time I am going to try the same but using pure ammonia instead.

There are a few rules that if not followed, then it won't work and as you can see below, some are pretty scary:

-Tetra safe start double the amount recommended for your tank size, half of it poured in the filter and the other half in the water
-Important!!Water conditioner should not contain ammonia lock/remover, etc.. such as Prime, Amquel, Api Ammolock, Api stress coat+ version
-Ammonia source should be introduced straight away. Ammonia should not exceed 4ppm on the test(recommended)
-Important!!!No water changes while cycling or at least the first 4-5 days, otherwise all the Tetra safe start will be in vain since it takes time for it to attach to filter media/gravel and other surfaces
-temperature of water 20-28 degrees(Mine was 27)
-The less light the better( I did normal 8-10 hrs a day as I had plants and fish in it)


Generally that's how it worked for me and I did a fish in cycle both times without any casualties, sickness, etc..On the contrary, fish fins became larger and more colorful than the fish had at purchase and didn't seem to be affected at all although I didn't do a water change until it fully cycled a week from putting the Tetra safe start. I started doing water changes about 3 days after constant 0s for ammonia and nitrites appeared as nitrates were climbing steadily.

I'll try exactly the same process, but with ammonia instead of fish next time and probably open a thread for it for all to follow.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Personally, I can't wait for that thread.

I did every one of those steps, except my ammonia was 5ppm. And got nothing with it.

 

[snazy]

I did every one of those steps, except my ammonia was 5ppm. And got nothing with it

Did you do it with pure ammonia or fish? I am yet to try with ammonia. Mine were done with fish and ammonia was never 5ppm.

Actually, if it didn't work for you, do you mind me asking what exactly was stocking level of fish, if fish used, what dosage of ammonia per day if ammonia used?
-what is the Ph of your water
-what dosage Tetra Safe start?
-what is the water conditioner type?
-did you do water changes?
-what eventually happened? What spikes of ammonia and nitrite? How many days after starting did you get a nitrite spike and were the nitrates raising at the same time, etc...

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I did every one of those steps, except my ammonia was 5ppm. And got nothing with it

Did you do it with pure ammonia or fish? I am yet to try with ammonia. Mine were done with fish and ammonia was never 5ppm.

Actually, if it didn't work for you, do you mind me asking what exactly was stocking level of fish, if fish used, what dosage of ammonia per day if ammonia used?
-what is the Ph of your water
-what dosage Tetra Safe start?
-what is the water conditioner type?
-did you do water changes?
-what eventually happened? What spikes of ammonia and nitrite? How many days after starting did you get a nitrite spike and were the nitrates raising at the same time, etc...

Pure ammonia.

pH 8.4 (baking soda added
full bottle
API Tap Water Conditioner
No water changes
It eventually cycled, about 23 days...

This is my log...

Day 0: 4/29/11 - 22:00 - pH 8.2, NH3: 4ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: 0ppm, Temp: 82F.
Day 1: 4/30/11 - 10:00 - pH: 8.4, NH3: 4ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: 0ppm. Temp:83F
Day 1: 4/30/11 - 22:00 - pH: 8.4, NH3: 3-4ppm, NO2:0ppm, NO3:0ppm, Temp: 84F (Full 24 hours)
Day 2: 5/01/11 - 09:00 - pH: 8.4, NH3: 3-4ppm (hard to tell, but a bit lighter than 4ppm), NO2: 0ppm, NO3: 0ppm, temp: 83F
Day 2: 5/01/11 - 21:00 - pH 8.4, NH3: 2-3ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: >0ppm, < 5ppm, if I had to guess, I'd say 1-2 ppm, temp: 84F.
Day 3: 5/02/11 - 07:00 - pH:N/A, NH3: 1-2 ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: >0ppm, <5ppm, maybe 2-3ppm?, temp 84F. (work week)
Day 3: 5/02/11 - 20:00 - pH:N/A, NH3:1ppm (definitely), NO2:0ppm, NO3:>0ppm, <5ppm, temp 84F
Day 4: 5/03/11 - 07:00 - pH: 8.4, NH3: 1ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: >0ppm, <5ppm, temp 84F.
Day 4: 5/03/11 - 20:00 - pH: 8.4, NH3: 0.5ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: ~3ppm, temp: 86F.
Day 5: 5/04/11 - 07:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0.5ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: ~3ppm, temp: 85F
Day 5: 5/04/11 - 17:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: <0.25ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: ~3-4ppm, temp 83F redosed to 4ppm
Day 6: 5/05/11 - 07:00 - pH:N/A, NH3: 3-4ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: ~3ppm, temp 83F
Day 6: 5/05/11 - 19:00 - pH: 8.4, NH3: ~3ppm, NO2: 0ppm (a little purple visible on the bottom), NO3: ~3ppm, temp 84F
Day 7: 5/06/11 - 07:00 - pH:N/A, NH3: 0.5ppm, NO2: <0.25ppm (more purple on the bottom of the vial), NO3: >5ppm, temp: 83F
Day 7: 5/06/11 - 19:00 - pH:N/A, NH3: 0-0.25ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: 40ppm, temp 84F. redosed to 4ppm NH3.
Day 8: 5/07/11 - 07:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 1.0-2.0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: 40-80ppm, temp 83F
Day 8, 5/07/11 - 22:30 - pH: 8.2, NH3: 0-0.25ppm (closer to 0ppm), NO2: 0ppm, NO3: very close to 80ppm, temp: 85F redosed to 4ppm 22:00
Day 9, 5/08/11 - 07:00 - pH:8.4 , NH3: 025-0.50ppm, NO2: off the scale?, NO3: 80ppm, temp: 83F
Day 9, 5/08/11 - 19:00 - pH: 8.4, NH3: 0-0.25ppm, NO2: off the scale NO3: 20?ppm, temp: 85F redosed to 4ppm 21:00
Day 10, 5/09/11 - 07:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: off the scale, NO3: 10?ppm, temp 85F
Day 10, 5/09/11 - 19:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: >0ppm (just a trace), NO2: off the scale, NO3: not tested, temp: 85F ~95% water change
Post water change: pH: 7.6, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: 0.50ppm, NO3: 20ppm, temp: 86F ***added sodium bicarb to raise pH.***
Day 11, 5/10/11 - 07:00 - pH: 8.3, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 80F (need to adjust the heater!) redosed NH3 to 2ppm 07:00
Day 11, 5/10/11 - (12hr) - 20:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: <0.25ppm, NO2: 2.00ppm, NO3: 40ppm, temp 85F
Day 12, 5/11/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 84F redosed NH3 to ~3ppm
Day 12, 5/11/11 - (12hr) 19:30 - pH:N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 85F AFTER ONLY 12 HOURS!!!
Day 13, 5/12/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - redosed to 4ppm
Day 13, 5/12/11 - (12hr) 19:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: 0.25ppm (maybe 0.50ppm), NO3: N/A, temp: 85F (NH3 and NO2 were zero at 21:30.)
Day 14, 5/13/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - pH:N/A, NH3:0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: ~60ppm (or thereabouts... maybe higher), temp 85F dosed to 4ppm
Day 14, 5/13/11 - (12hr) 20:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: <0.25ppm, NO3:N/A, temp 85F
Day 15, 5/14/11 - (24hr) 08:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2:0ppm, NO3:N/a, temp 85F redosed to 4ppm
Day 15, 5/14/11 - (12hr) 20:00 - pH: 8.2, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2:0.50ppm, NO3: ~80ppm, temp 85F
Day 16, 5/15/11 - (24hr) 07:30 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 85F
Day 16, 5/15/11 - (12hr) 20:30 - pH:N/A, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 85F
Day 17, 5/16/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 85F redosed to 4ppm NH3
Day 17, 5/16/11 - (12hr) 19:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 85F
Day 18, 5/17/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 85F redosed to 4 ppm
Day 18, 5/17/11 - (12hr) 19:00 - pH: 7.6, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: too high to read, temp 85F
Day 19, 5/18/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 85F redosed to 4 ppm
Day 19, 5/18/11 - (12hr) 19:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 1-2ppm, NO2: 1.0ppm, NO2: N/A, temp 85F - after investigating, it has been decided that I overdosed the ammonia in the morning, closer to 6ppm than 4ppm.
(Major water change - 75-80% to lower nitrates for testing purposes. Post water change parameters: pH: 7.0 (redosed with baking soda), NH3: 0.50ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: 40ppm, temp 88F)
Day 20, 5/19/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - pH: 8.4, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: 40ppm, temp 82F redosed to 4 ppm, really this time!
Day 20, 5/19/11 - (12hr) 21:00 - pH: 8.2, NH3: 0.5-0.75ppm, NO2: 1.0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 84F
Day 21, 5/20/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp: 84F redosed to 4ppm NH3.
Day 21, 5/20/11 - (12hr) 19:00 - pH: ~8.3, NH3: 0.25ppm, NO2: ~2.0ppm, NO3: 40-80ppm, temp 84F
Day 22, 5/21/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3 :N/A, temp 84F redosed to 4ppm NH3.
Day 22, 5/21/11 - (~12hr) 20:30 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 84F
Day 23, 5/22/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - redosed to 4ppm NH3.
Day 23, 5/22/11 - (12hr) 19:00 - pH:N/A, NH3:0ppm, NO2:0.10ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 84F (so close)


***Start of Qualifying week***
Day 24, 5/23/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - pH: 8.3, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 83F redosed to 4ppm NH3.
Day 24, 5/23/11 - (12hr) 19:00 - pH: N/A, NH3: 0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 84F
Day 25, 5/24/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - redosed to 4ppm NH3.
Day 25, 5/24/11 - (12hr) 19:00 - ph:N/A, NH3:0ppm, NO2:0ppm, NO3:N/A, temp 84F
Day 26, 5/25/11 - (24hr) 07:00 - redosed to 4ppm NH3.
Day 26, 5/25/11 - (12hr) 17:00 - pH: N/A, NH3:0ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: N/A, temp 84F (10 hours!!!)

Looking back at it, it might have helped more than I remembered. I look forward to your log. If we have documented proof of it working in fishless cycle, documented, then it could really help folks on this board. Personally, I'm still a bit skeptical. I might have just been lucky. Some cycles actually can happen this fast. Plus, I did everything I could to speed things up. I was WAY overfiltered on the tank. It was a 10 gallon tank, and I was using a Penguin 350 on the tank (which is rated up to 50+ gallons).