Aquatopia - 6x2x2 Low-Med Light, High Tech Nature Aquarium

[Aquatopia]

Today I raised the front of my cover glass sightly by inserting small pieces of airline under the sliding glass rails, which should raise it just enough so that any condensation runs to the back of the tank.

I also added some of these 'cable clips' to the back of the tank glass and the back of the Mopani wood.

This is my own idea (I've never seen anybody else do it) for holding stem plants in bunches, basically I can put a small bunch of stems and clip them into one of these and they will be held in place and grow up over the wood and the top/back of the tank. Then when it comes to pruning I can just un-clip them, trim the bottoms and clip them back in again.

 

[Aquatopia]

I've got the powders for the EI fertiliser here ready now.

Next week I order the filters, the dosing equipment and CO2 equipment.

 

[Aquatopia]

I've had another change of mind, this time with the filters. I was getting two of the Oase BioMaster 2 850 Thermo filters but I've now decided to drop these down a model to two of the Oase BioMaster 2 600 Thermo filters instead, which is what I was going to get originally.

The reasons for this are:

1. The 'actual' flow rate of the filters is not that different. According to the manufacturer there is a 250 lph difference but looking at people's real world tests there seems to be hardly any difference, maybe 50 lph at most and even that seems very generous. I was originally looking at two of the 600 model filters anyway and went for the 850 for the increased flow, so seeing as there is not really much more it's not worth it.
2. The 850 model filters have 400w heaters, which is overkill as far as I'm concerned. I've used two 300w heaters on the same size tank before and it was plenty, they kept a reef stable at 78f without any problem so I don't need or want two 400w heaters to keep this tank stable at 75f. The 600 model filters come with 300w heaters so two of those is ideal.
3. I don't need the extra media space the 850 model filters offer. The plants are going to be doing a lot of the filtration anyway. The main reasons I am having the filters is to add some extra biological filtration but more for mechanical and chemical filtration and for that I don't need an extra lire of media space.

This change also brings me back to my original concern with having two of the 600 model filters - probably not having enough flow to distribute the CO2 around the tank effectively.

To address this issue I have also decided to add a Gyre flow pump, specifically the Maxspect Gyre XF350CE. By adding this I can better control the amount of flow and ensure there is plenty available where it is needed. This way I can get exactly the amount of flow I need to get the CO2 to all the plants.

 

[Aquatopia]

I'm still thinking about not going high tech and I'm at the point where I'm about to order the CO2 equipment so last chance for me to change my mind. Can you convince me either way?

I know the reasons to have CO2 injection and I know the reasons not to have it. I'm just not sure which way is going to be best for me with this tank.

I've had lots of success before with low tech. The last 2 tanks I had that I've posted before were low tech and the plants were great. I've not done high tech a lot and I didn't do it for long.

I guess this is what's making me dubious about going high tech with this large tank. I'm feeling like I should stay with what I know well and can be confident with.

On the other hand I also feel like increasing the plant growth by going high tech is going to make it less likely that algae will be an issue and by not going high tech I'll be taking more of a risk.

The CO2 bottles and getting them re-filled is also an issue. I don't have my own transport and I can't find anywhere near me that even does the refills. The places that do refills are too far away and they cost about the same for a refill as buying another CO2 fire extinguisher. If I do still go high tech then I'm going to have to just keep buying a new CO2 fire extinguisher every time and disposing of the old one, which seems like a ridiculous waste.

The high majoity of the plants in my tank are going to be root feeders and epiphytes. Crypts, swords, ferns, mosses and loads of Anubias and Bucephalandra with a few fast growing stems and floating plants. I don't want fast growth, which I'm not going to get from most of the plants using CO2 or not as they are slow growing plants. It will only make a big difference to the stems and as I just said I don't want them growing that fast anyway. The floating plants will have CO2 from the air so they will do just as well without injected CO2.

If I'm not injecting CO2 does it matter if I don't quite have good flow everywhere? Without injecting CO2 maybe I don't need to add the gyre flow pump? There's another bonus if so. Actually I'd be getting better flow from the filters without injecting CO2 as the flow wouldn't have to go through the CO2 reactor.

At the minute I think I'm still more on the side of not going high tech but just not sure. What's your best advice?

 

[Aquatopia]

After advice receieved elsewhere and sleeping on it I have come to a decision. I think I needed to lay it all out like that to see how much more sense not going high tech makes. I am going to go low tech instead and figure it out.

 

[Aquatopia]

I've also decided not to get the gyre flow pump as I don't need to make sure the CO2 is distributed as I'm not going to be injecting any. I'm going to just go with the 2 x Biomaster 2 600 Thermo filters and see how it goes. If I do have flow issues then I can add a gyre flow pump later.

 

[Aquatopia]

I've also now decided to get 2 Red Whiptail Catfish instead of the Royal Farlowella. They're smaller but just as interesting.

That makes my fish list look like this now:

2 Apistogramma macmasteri (pair)
150 Cardinal Tetra.
6 Honeycomb Bristlenose Plecos.
10 Kuhli Loaches
20 Lemon Tetra.
20 Orange Venezuela Corys
10 Panda Garra
10 Roseline Sharks.
2 Red Whiptail Catfish.
15 Kohaku Berlin Swordtails.

 

[Aquatopia]

After discussions elsewhere I have now decided to go back to injecting CO2. I've found a way I can use a 5Kg CO2 Fire extinguisher now and as I'm going to be dosing low it should last a good while, so I shouldn't need to be disposing of them that often.

Because I'm injecting CO2 again I will also still be getting the gyre flow pump to make sure the CO2 is well distributed.

 

[Aquatopia]

I've ordered the Maxspect Gyre 350CE gyre flow pump now, should be here in the next few days.

This also arrived today.

I'll be ordering the CO2 bottle, dosing equipment and the filters plus lots of last minute bits on Thursday, the day after tomorrow.

Getting close now!

 

[anewbie]

A few comments:

First if the cable clips are metal (depending on type) they can rust and/or leach into the water over time.

With your stocking if the a. macmasteri are male/female they will not mix well with the
Venezuela Corys
Panda Garra
bn pleco
-
Also your tank is over stocked with your planned numbers. Personally I would drop all the pleco reduce the cardinals to 50 and then make a decision on if you want cory or macmasteri.

 

[Aquatopia]

A few comments:

First if the cable clips are metal (depending on type) they can rust and/or leach into the water over time.

The cable clips are plastic.

With your stocking if the a. macmasteri are male/female they will not mix well with the
Venezuela Corys
Panda Garra
bn pleco

The A.macmasteri will be male/female. According to some very experienced Apisto breeders/keepers the pair will be fine with my stock.

Also your tank is over stocked with your planned numbers. Personally I would drop all the pleco reduce the cardinals to 50 and then make a decision on if you want cory or macmasteri.

That's an opinion and one that I don't share.

The fish stock is fairly heavy but the plant load will be very high and the filtration will be as well. Water changes and maintenance will be done every week too. The fish stocking levels you usually see recommended now are very light, often to ensure that newcomers to the hobby have a good experience. Also the 'Aquascaping' hobby has made a light fish stock more common as aquascapers tend to stock extremely lightly and recommend it. That does not mean it is necessary though, it is just what they prefer and what has become the 'norm'.

Whether or not someone can or cannot keep more than a certain level of fish stock depends on their specific situation, so telling people that their tank is overstocked just because it does not fit in with the usually recommended fish stocking levels is simply bad advice. You need to take into account far more than that.

With experience and education you can keep far more fish, healthy and thriving, in your aquarium than what is recommended. The fish stocking recommendations are there to provide newcomers with a 'safe' start.

Experienced fish keepers have been keeping much heavier fish loads succesfully for many decades. I've done it multiple times myself, with heavier stocking than in this tank, going back to the 1980's and not only kept the fish healthy but have also bred a good few of them.

 

[GaryE]

While I often disagree with @anewbie 's manner of expressing opinions, there is a stocking issue looming.
Overstocking doesn't always mean fish numbers, plants and filtration - there's way more to consider than the cycle. Stocking successfully has a fish behavioural aspect. I keep no Apistos now, but I have 35 years experience with the group, and more with the Cory group.

The issue I would be concerned about is niches. Apistogramma are very territorial, especially if they move to spawning. Their niche is the bottom of the tank.
The majority of Cory group fish like the same niche, though few care about territories. Apistos will often beat up Corys who wander into their turf, but there is no other part of the tank of interest to Corys.

That said, a lot of experienced people keep Cory group and Apistogramma fish in the same tanks. That doesn't make it the right move, in my opinion, but all I can do is offer my reasons. Fishkeeping philosophies...

I recently found and caught a young Ancistrus in a dwarf Cichlid tank. He had hatched in there a ways back and grown up in the jungle of plants, keeping a low profile. But he (it was a male) took a liking to the cave my pair of Parananochromis wanted to spawn in, and that was very disruptive. He had to move.

I can't comment on the panda garra though, as I have never kept them.

I have a lone male agassizii, an elderly fish a friend gave me. He's in a six footer, and he's a lovely jerk. I've steered him toward one end with the tank design, but when he wanders along the length of the tank, it's to harass the Brochis and Hoplisoma Cory group fish that are in there. I regret putting him in the tank.

It's something to consider.

 

[Aquatopia]

While I often disagree with @anewbie 's manner of expressing opinions, there is a stocking issue looming.
Overstocking doesn't always mean fish numbers, plants and filtration - there's way more to consider than the cycle. Stocking successfully has a fish behavioural aspect. I keep no Apistos now, but I have 35 years experience with the group, and more with the Cory group.

The issue I would be concerned about is niches. Apistogramma are very territorial, especially if they move to spawning. Their niche is the bottom of the tank.
The majority of Cory group fish like the same niche, though few care about territories. Apistos will often beat up Corys who wander into their turf, but there is no other part of the tank of interest to Corys.

That said, a lot of experienced people keep Cory group and Apistogramma fish in the same tanks. That doesn't make it the right move, in my opinion, but all I can do is offer my reasons. Fishkeeping philosophies...

I recently found and caught a young Ancistrus in a dwarf Cichlid tank. He had hatched in there a ways back and grown up in the jungle of plants, keeping a low profile. But he (it was a male) took a liking to the cave my pair of Parananochromis wanted to spawn in, and that was very disruptive. He had to move.

I can't comment on the panda garra though, as I have never kept them.

I have a lone male agassizii, an elderly fish a friend gave me. He's in a six footer, and he's a lovely jerk. I've steered him toward one end with the tank design, but when he wanders along the length of the tank, it's to harass the Brochis and Hoplisoma Cory group fish that are in there. I regret putting him in the tank.

It's something to consider.

Thanks for that Gary. I was aware there could be an issue but I was told it was thought that the density of planting, lack of sight lines, etc. would diffuse any issues and they should be okay. If that is not the case then I do want to know.

I originally decided not to have the Apistos because of the possible issues with the Corys, Plecos, etc. but others convinced me they would be okay. The people who advised me on the UKAPS forum are also regulars on the Apistogramma.com forums, I've actually just joined the Apistogramma.com forums so I can ask others there as well and try to get a clearer answer.

From what you say it seems like it may be a bad idea to even have a single male.

 

[GaryE]

Bad idea?

I like tanks with sparse stocking, so that colours my views. I'm glad to be disagreed with as long as I know why. We owe each other that courtesy.

Collect a bunch of ideas and perspectives, and decide. In a decent sized tank, Apistos aren't very aggressive, but they know what they like. I see Corys as innocents that wander in and get walloped. Yes, they have armour and can take it, but I don't think they should have to. Our largest tanks are a few seconds transit in a flowing stream, and in nature they can stay out of each others' ways.

Plus in nature, the Apistos have predators to watch for. In our safe tanks, they can give wandering intruders their total attention. Their goal is to keep future young safe, and that's commendable.

You have to consider the source, too. In the mid nineteen nineties to early 2000s, Apistogramma were far more available than they are now. I don't keep lists, but at one point I went through my published articles on new Apistos and their breeding, and I'd estimate I successfully bred 30 to 40 species, described and undescribed. But then I became interested in other fish, and now much prefer the Corydoras group. I keep West and Central African Cichlids, and killies from the same region, as well as scattered South American fish.

When I had Apistos, they were central to their tanks, and the communities were built around them. Now, Apistos interfere with my Cory herds and tetra swarms, so I am less in love with them. Someone who prioritizes the Cichlids will see things differently, and should be able to express why.

 

[Aquatopia]

Bad idea?

I like tanks with sparse stocking, so that colours my views. I'm glad to be disagreed with as long as I know why. We owe each other that courtesy.

Collect a bunch of ideas and perspectives, and decide. In a decent sized tank, Apistos aren't very aggressive, but they know what they like. I see Corys as innocents that wander in and get walloped. Yes, they have armour and can take it, but I don't think they should have to. Our largest tanks are a few seconds transit in a flowing stream, and in nature they can stay out of each others' ways.

Plus in nature, the Apistos have predators to watch for. In our safe tanks, they can give wandering intruders their total attention. Their goal is to keep future young safe, and that's commendable.

You have to consider the source, too. In the mid nineteen nineties to early 2000s, Apistogramma were far more available than they are now. I don't keep lists, but at one point I went through my published articles on new Apistos and their breeding, and I'd estimate I successfully bred 30 to 40 species, described and undescribed. But then I became interested in other fish, and now much prefer the Corydoras group. I keep West and Central African Cichlids, and killies from the same region, as well as scattered South American fish.

When I had Apistos, they were central to their tanks, and the communities were built around them. Now, Apistos interfere with my Cory herds and tetra swarms, so I am less in love with them. Someone who prioritizes the Cichlids will see things differently, and should be able to express why.

Very well explained Gary, thanks again.

I'm the same way, I don't mind being disagreed with, just explain why and you could even change my mind.

You obviously have a lot of experience with the Apistos so I will take what you've said on board. I have bred Apistogramma cacatuoides years ago but not in a community tank, in their own breeding tank. They are the only Apistos I have kept though.

I agree about the Corys. They are like children, just wandering around without a care in the world. Thinking about it that way I agree with you there as well, they don't deserve to be harrased at all. Thanks, you've helped me decide, I won't be getting the Apistos.

The reason they were recommended in the first place is that people felt the tank would be missing the behaviour of a pair, which I agree with. Do you have any suggestions for a possible pair that would be okay with the rest of my fish?.. or do you think the tanks fine without a pair?