Apistogramma Cacatouides and African Dwarf Frogs??

[Ellie Potts]

I have a standard 55-gallon aquarium (48" x 13" x 21") kept at about 78 degrees F. The tank gets water changes once a week at 50% and is very heavily planted and over-filtered. I would really like to add a pair of Apistogramma cacatouides, as I've wanted them for over a year now and would like some action at the bottom of the aquarium. But I have some concerns with the stocking of my tank.

- 2 (1 M 1 F) dwarf gouramis (Wally and Mary)
- 14 Harlequin rasboras (although twice now a baby has just shown up one day so it appears this number is subject to growth)
- 2 siamese algae eaters (I've learned some people say you need at least 6, and some people say you can't have more than 1. There isn't much concrete info, but 2 is what my fish store recommended and the pair of them don't seem to be exhibiting any signs of stress.)
- 4 African dwarf frogs
- A few random invertebrates

Because of space and plants, I'm not too concerned about my gouramis and the apistos as both gouramis are pretty passive, never pick on the frogs or algae eaters, and very rarely get to the bottom of the tank.

I am, however, more concerned about the African Dwarf frogs. I spot feed them frozen brine shrimp and they happily snack on shrimp babies or random rasbora fry, so food isn't an issue, but they have horrible vision and I wouldn't want them to wander into an aggressive dwarf cichlid. I have a massive piece of spider wood in the middle of the tank that the frogs rarely leave as it keeps them close to the surface, but every now and again one of them will spread eagle and float to the bottom of the tank looking like what can only be described as a pancake... a completely defenseless pancake.

What do you guys think? Anyone ever tried it? I have a backup 20 long just in case pancakes hit the fan.

 

[Sgooosh]

just my opinion , you shouldnt keep frogs with fish, and other amphibians, fish meds kill the frogs

 

[Ellie Potts]

just my opinion , you shouldnt keep frogs with fish, and other amphibians, fish meds kill the frogs

I understand that but I never put medication in any of my planted aquariums; in the case of a sick fish, I move them to my hospital tank and treat them with aquarium salt followed by medication if the disease persists. I don't put any fish in my 55 that haven't been quarantined for a month. So, I'm really not that worried about disease or meds hurting the frogs. I just have compatibility concerns.

 

[Sgooosh]

I understand that but I never put medication in any of my planted aquariums; in the case of a sick fish, I move them to my hospital tank and treat them with aquarium salt followed by medication if the disease persists. I don't put any fish in my 55 that haven't been quarantined for a month. So, I'm really not that worried about disease or meds hurting the frogs. I just have compatibility concerns.

oh... other than that saimese algae eaters harm other fish... (unless thety're already acclimated i guess)
the chiclids might harm your frogs though... wouldnt want that

 

[Slaphppy7]

Another member here had an ADF latch onto the tail of a betta, and had to forcefully separate them..

 

[Ellie Potts]

oh... other than that saimese algae eaters harm other fish... (unless thety're already acclimated i guess)
the chiclids might harm your frogs though... wouldnt want that

Hmmm... I've heard of Chinese algae eaters sucking the slime coats off of fish but never heard of a siamese one being aggressive. They're pretty shy and unproblematic in my experience. What do you mean harm other fish?

 

[Ellie Potts]

Another member here had an ADF latch onto the tail of a betta, and had to forcefully separate them..

Wow, I've never heard of that happening before. It must have gotten the tail mixed up for a piece of food, their eyesight is horrible. I'm surprised the betta fish didn't tell it off.

 

[Sgooosh]

Hmmm... I've heard of Chinese algae eaters sucking the slime coats off of fish but never heard of a siamese one being aggressive. They're pretty shy and unproblematic in my experience. What do you mean harm other fish?

ohhh i thought you said cae, sorry its fine

 

[Ellie Potts]

ohhh i thought you said cae, sorry its fine

Lol yeah, not a fan of CAE's. Took me ages to find some pure siamese algae eaters.

 

[Slaphppy7]

Wow, I've never heard of that happening before. It must have gotten the tail mixed up for a piece of food, their eyesight is horrible. I'm surprised the betta fish didn't tell it off.

@Essjay is a Mod here, it was her tank, maybe she'll pop in...

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Aquatic frogs should not be mixed with fish.

 

[Sgooosh]

Aquatic frogs should not be mixed with fish.

that was the point i was trying to make but i didn't want to be rude lol. thanks

 

[Essjay]

@Essjay is a Mod here, it was her tank, maybe she'll pop in...

About 10 or 12 years ago I read that frogs were good tank mates for bettas so I bought 2.

The first problem I had was trying to feed the frogs. Bettas are pigs when it comes to food. ADFs are almost blind and find their food by smell. The betta found the frog's food before they had chance to even sniff it. Bettas are also flexible fish. I constructed a frog feeding station from a terracotta plant pot. I cut a frog sized hole in the rim and put it upside down, then but a stone over the hole which I used to drop the food through, then put the stone back quick. I reckoned without the betta which managed to wriggle sideways through the frog sized hole then couldn't get out.

But the thing that made me set up my quarantine tank and move the frogs was the day I walked past the tank and saw the betta frantically swimming round the tank with a frog clamped onto his tail. As I said above, ADFs are almost blind, and it saw something moving nearby and lunged for it. I managed to get the frog off but he lost a chunk of tail which took ages to regrow.



That wouldn't happen with short tailed fish, but I still wouldn't recommend it - feeding the frogs was so much easier when they were on their own.

And there's also the problem that frogs cannot cope with fish medications so if the fish ever get sick, they can't be treated with frogs in the same tank.

 

[Colin_T]

Compatibility wise there shouldn't be any problem due to the tank size, and the Apistogrammas aren't aggressive. However, as others have said, it is preferable not to mix frogs and fish due to health reasons. But if you are happy keeping frogs and fish together, then there should be room in the tank for the Apistogrammas.

 

[Byron]

Apistogramma are substrate feeders, and they live in the lower third of the tank. This I would assume puts them in constant company with the frogs. Not good at all, especially if the male decides it is his territory (which by nature he will), and then if they spawn... .