A Thought On Fishless Cycling

[drobbyb]

The way I see it is you would add the nitrite to the water along with ammonia. Once the ammonia starts to process you need not add any more nitrite since it's a byproduct of breaking down ammonia. Essentially this would give you a nice head start on getting your nitrite processing bacteria established.

I wish I had the room to try this. You may have something there AdamM and I do think it warrants testing to see if it does indeed work.

This begs the question though, where do you get your nitrite from?

 

[Pipe Dream]

look #93###, you bring up a valid point, however the way this forum is setup, a fishless cycle is something like a book of dianetics in scientology. you don't question it, you don't doubt it, you don't think about it, you do it.

the fact that the vast majority of fishtank owners out there for decades cycle with fish, and the fact that the very vast majority of them without a single problem, is secondary. a fishless cycle started as a neat idea, then it turned into a fashion hit, then some activists (the same ones that that dress their dogs in sweaters and shoes) turned it into the only humane and non-cruel way to cycle, and then for a large group of people in these forums it became a dogma. and dogmas are not here to be discussed. that's why your post is a little pointless, as valid as it may be.

 

[meguro]

the fact that the vast majority of fishtank owners out there for decades cycle with fish, and the fact that the very vast majority of them without a single problem, is secondary. a fishless cycle started as a neat idea, then it turned into a fashion hit, then some activists (the same ones that that dress their dogs in sweaters and shoes) turned it into the only humane and non-cruel way to cycle, and then for a large group of people in these forums it became a dogma. and dogmas are not here to be discussed. that's why your post is a little pointless, as valid as it may be.

sources?

 

[Squid]

In my experience it is best to use a dual approach. Use a fishless cycle to kick off the process, but then only add a lower percentage of the fish and not the full bioload. This will help the tank start its process from cycled to mature, where by monitoring the stability of the tank you can then add further fish at the appropriate stage.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[Bungy]

Fish-in cycling proved disasterous for my first 75gal tank. Subsequent tank setup were done using the fishless cycling method and since my fish-house contains around 20 tanks, ive done a few and never lost a single fish through fishless cycling. May I touch on the point made regarding adding Nitrite at the start of the cycle - I agree totally with this and many of us have actually done this in a roundabout sort of way without realising it...you may start your cycle off using Ammonia, after several days the Nitrite will appear and thus the Nitrite munching bacteria start to colonise...etc etc. If however you have access to a mature filter and you use this to SEED your new tank, you are actually putting established Ammonia and Nitrite munching bacteria into your tank from day one and thus it is possible by the dosing of Ammonia and another squeeze or two of matured filter media to fully cycle your new filter in 10 days (this is the normal timeframe for me).

The other point made at the start of the thread.....Dosing only half measure of Ammonia will only serve to produce half the number of bacteria since the Ammonia added at the start is FOOD for the bacteria - reduce the food supply and you reduce the number of bacteria able to feed upon it and thus the number of Nitrite munching bacteria will depend upon the waste produced from the Ammonia munching bacteria which of course will also be halved - you will not however speed up or slow down the cycling process. All you serve to do is save a few small drops of Ammonia - so at the end of the day its best to go the full hog with the knowledge that you can if you wish add a full bio-load of fish from day one. If of course you decide not to fully load the tank, you will find that a die-back of bacteria will occur due to a reduction of their food source (Ammonia) any subsequent fish added will have to be in small doses to allow the bacteria to catch up again with the increase waste matter from the new fish.

Hope this helps

Bungy

 

[drobbyb]

look #93###, you bring up a valid point, however the way this forum is setup, a fishless cycle is something like a book of dianetics in scientology. you don't question it, you don't doubt it, you don't think about it, you do it.

the fact that the vast majority of fishtank owners out there for decades cycle with fish, and the fact that the very vast majority of them without a single problem, is secondary. a fishless cycle started as a neat idea, then it turned into a fashion hit, then some activists (the same ones that that dress their dogs in sweaters and shoes) turned it into the only humane and non-cruel way to cycle, and then for a large group of people in these forums it became a dogma. and dogmas are not here to be discussed. that's why your post is a little pointless, as valid as it may be.

Umm, no. We are always open to new ideas and techniques. You are a new member, and haven't been around here long enough to adequately approximate what the other members would or would not think. It's true that we view a fishless cycle as preferable, but some people have no choice to fish in cycle. They are not frowned upon, and the membership will gladly guide them.

Your post was pointless.

 

[onebto]

look #93###, you bring up a valid point, however the way this forum is setup, a fishless cycle is something like a book of dianetics in scientology. you don't question it, you don't doubt it, you don't think about it, you do it.

the fact that the vast majority of fishtank owners out there for decades cycle with fish, and the fact that the very vast majority of them without a single problem, is secondary. a fishless cycle started as a neat idea, then it turned into a fashion hit, then some activists (the same ones that that dress their dogs in sweaters and shoes) turned it into the only humane and non-cruel way to cycle, and then for a large group of people in these forums it became a dogma. and dogmas are not here to be discussed. that's why your post is a little pointless, as valid as it may be.

Umm, no. We are always open to new ideas and techniques. You are a new member, and haven't been around here long enough to adequately approximate what the other members would or would not think. It's true that we view a fishless cycle as preferable, but some people have no choice to fish in cycle. They are not frowned upon, and the membership will gladly guide them.

Your post was pointless.

Completely and utterly agree drobbyb

 

[Amberleaf]

The way I see it is you would add the nitrite to the water along with ammonia. Once the ammonia starts to process you need not add any more nitrite since it's a byproduct of breaking down ammonia. Essentially this would give you a nice head start on getting your nitrite processing bacteria established.

I wish I had the room to try this. You may have something there AdamM and I do think it warrants testing to see if it does indeed work.

This begs the question though, where do you get your nitrite from?

Hmm.... You keep a large goldfish in a tiny bowl, test every day, and then wait until there was only nitrite in the water and add that to the cycling tank?

Lol no, that'd be cruel. Don't some water companies add nitrite to the water for whatever reason....? Or was that nitrates? If it's nitrites, then you can simply ask what their source is and request a bottle of it, lol.

 

[AdamM]

Fish-in cycling proved disasterous for my first 75gal tank. Subsequent tank setup were done using the fishless cycling method and since my fish-house contains around 20 tanks, ive done a few and never lost a single fish through fishless cycling. May I touch on the point made regarding adding Nitrite at the start of the cycle - I agree totally with this and many of us have actually done this in a roundabout sort of way without realising it...you may start your cycle off using Ammonia, after several days the Nitrite will appear and thus the Nitrite munching bacteria start to colonise...etc etc. If however you have access to a mature filter and you use this to SEED your new tank, you are actually putting established Ammonia and Nitrite munching bacteria into your tank from day one and thus it is possible by the dosing of Ammonia and another squeeze or two of matured filter media to fully cycle your new filter in 10 days (this is the normal timeframe for me).

The other point made at the start of the thread.....Dosing only half measure of Ammonia will only serve to produce half the number of bacteria since the Ammonia added at the start is FOOD for the bacteria - reduce the food supply and you reduce the number of bacteria able to feed upon it and thus the number of Nitrite munching bacteria will depend upon the waste produced from the Ammonia munching bacteria which of course will also be halved - you will not however speed up or slow down the cycling process. All you serve to do is save a few small drops of Ammonia - so at the end of the day its best to go the full hog with the knowledge that you can if you wish add a full bio-load of fish from day one. If of course you decide not to fully load the tank, you will find that a die-back of bacteria will occur due to a reduction of their food source (Ammonia) any subsequent fish added will have to be in small doses to allow the bacteria to catch up again with the increase waste matter from the new fish.

Hope this helps

Bungy

so by your reckoning, i could dose 100ml of ammonia everyday, and once the tank is fully cycled, i could hold 10x the ammount of fish i could dosing 10ml a day....?

 

[meguro]

where does he imply that?

 

[AdamM]

well he says dosing more ammonia means more bacteria, more bacteria could deal with a larger bioload = more fish

 

[Squid]

well he says dosing more ammonia means more bacteria, more bacteria could deal with a larger bioload = more fish

Well, I thought 4-5ppm figure is used to support a bio-load suitable for the tank. In other words using more ammonia and creating a larger colony wouldn't be required, or you would probably be overstocking the tank. I would recommend you don't do the entire bioload anyway and start with something like 50% stocking. Then the tank has time to mature and stabilise before you add other fish which may require a more mature tank.

Squid

 

[K-Holed]

Adding more ammonia should increase the ultimate stockable bioload. This is preassumig however that your aqaurium is of a suitable size for the intended stock. The filter is only one part of the stocking equation.

 

[drobbyb]

Well, yes and no. Yes it would increase the numbers of the bacteria, but you also have to figure in the surface area. Media can only hold it's maximum, so without increasing the surface area you are only going to see the ammonia falling off as the bacteria can process it.


4ppm to 5ppm is a "safe" number for common filtration methods. If you are running 3 times the surface area then yes you can hold many more bacteria, but if you add that much bio-load you are going to have a very overstocked tank.