an anomally??? the no cycle tank…

[Magnum Man25 140]

I honestly don’t really know why this is working… but my 3 season porch aquarium, has been one of my most successful start ups… to date, I haven’t lost a fish… it’s past due for a water change… all the plants are new, but seem to be thriving… I’m truely blesssed…

everything in the tank is new… it’s 55 gallon tank, there are 2 over sized sponge filters in the tank, that were never seeded in a mature tank, it’s a cool water tank, with a tight enough fitting lid, that there has been no evaporation, in the several weeks it’s been running… one would think I’ve done everything wrong…

however I’ve been adding fish and plants slowly, and the bioload is low for the tank size yet… I started with 4 fish ( rosy minnows ), a week later added 5 rainbow shiners, another week later, added another 5 rainbow shiners, another week later added 3 trapdoor snails… I’m big on terrestrial plants, as part of my filtering in my other tanks, yet there are none in this one, I typically do not add any fertilizer, for my plants, yet there are 2 potted plants with root tabs added in this tank… the plants have been added as slowly as the fish…

it’s probably a blessing that it has been too hot to ship my blue spotted sunfish in Florida, yet, as it’s giving the chance for my new sponge filters to get colonized, before the bioload increases…

I’m not a patient guy, but slow seems to be the only reason I can come up with, on why this is working… the fish are all looking great so far…

thoughts???

 

[Jennet4 62]

No thoughts other than it seems to be going well for you, so well done. I am just loving those shiners by the way! What sort are they again?

 

[Magnum Man25 140]

Rainbow shiner (Hydrophlox chrosomus, formerly Notropis chrosomus)

Google Search

 

[bgarthe25 43]

That…..is a gorgeous fish. Good pic too btw

 

[GaryE24 139]

It's a fish in cycle, not a no cycle. I wouldn't tempt the gods with any longer between water changes, but with light stocking you should be able to bring the tank around safely.
You have an unfiltered tank for now, with water movement. Eventually, the sponges will be seeded and the system will come around. The surfaces, etc will also contribute.

Here such a tank would already be cool, and that would slow decomposition and digestion. It'll slow the cycling too, but the cycle can at times and in certain contexts be overated, he said, ducking. If you go too long without maintenance, I'd expect happy days would end very soon.

I don't know what your water temperatures are today, but they have a big effect on the process.

 

[Magnum Man25 140]

upper 50’s degrees F. outside temps today, tank with the heaters are ranging between 64 and 65 degrees F.

 

[Tomsfish4 48]

When you say everything is new does include the rocks and wood.
If they are used I believe they contributed.
I agree with Gary you are fish in cycling. It is not the sin so many claim when done properly.
Have you tested the tank at all to see where it is at?
Changing is never a bad thing....But when cycling you do not want to remove all of the 'nutrients' as they are necessary to grow the next one till the cycle is completed.
I would test the tank. You should know what to after that.

 

[Magnum Man25 140]

hard structure is all new as well, been a long time since I’ve tested any water

 

[MuddyWaters3 3]

"however I’ve been adding fish and plants slowly, and the bioload is low for the tank size yet" - this is the key- from the time i was 10 (mid 70s) until ...I think 2021, I had never heard of cycling. I did it slow and fast over the years and it worked or didn't based on that. The only thing I knew when I was a kid was only add 3 fish for the first few weeks before adding more. That worked for me for years- except when I figured that was BS and thought I could add more. It's amazing to me how little I knew for so long, but I never investigated. I always kept a tank, but I just set it up the same way every time and just went into whatever store near me that had fish (pet store, KMart, wherever), and bought what I wanted. I used Tetramin flake food and whatever water conditioner happened to be in front of me LOL.

I think doing it that way is fine- it still requires patience, but not as much as staring at an empty tank for a month.

Love your tank, btw.

 

[GaryE24 139]

If you're "doing" the cycle, you need a test kit. If you're allowing the cycle to happen, then it becomes your call. In a 'cold' tank like you describe, I wouldn't do what you're doing. Those filters would have run for at least 3-4 weeks in an established tank.. I probably would have bought them last Spring.

You are in the 1970s with this one. And guess what - if people bought a tank back then and loaded it with fish, they usually failed. If they followed advice with a slow but steady process that respected the cycle even though it wasn't defined, they got to the goal. I got greedy once, and killed the fish in the tank. Yeah, I regret it. But that was once in the first 25 years I kept fish.

With all other set ups, I built slowly, always with plants, and never with disasters. When people refer to fish in cycling as cruel, I don't see it. It sounds dramatic, and it no doubt applies if people start the tank with piles of fish and no sense. But a slow, steady, cautious approach is what I'd do if my tanks were zapped and I had to start all over again.

Either way, it isn't an anomaly, or a no cycle tank. It's how almost everyone did this before they knew about the nitrogen cycle, and called it New Tank Syndrome.

 

[TwoTankAmin19]

Plants love ammonium which is the form that most of the ammonia in a tank takes, Because you are doing tiny fish and adding slowly the plants are likely using up the ammonium. They do not make nitrite of nitrate, In fact they use nitrate when ammonia is missing.

Then you have the added benefit of dilution. A few small fish in a 55 do not make much ammonia. But since you are not testing you have no idea ow what is in the water. Ammonia can harm fish without killing them and even without showing any symptoms either. I smoked for years with no signs of harm. Now I have COPD and have had big issues.

Also, the ammonia that is in the gaseous NH3 form can evaporate. Ammonium (NH4) does not evaporate but is way less toxic.

 

[GaryE24 139]

I don't really analyze this in terms of plants taking up ammonium, but rather plants being excellent carriers of bacteria and archaea that may help out as they spread and occupy surfaces- plants help seed the tank unless you've disinfected them.

Plants roots do that function as well, if they have been transferred from another tank. They will feed themselves off pollutants in the water, but hopefully they'll add some of the missing things you need.

 

[Essjay24 139]

In vitro plants are becoming more popular. Since they are grown in lab conditions, would they contribute micro-organisms to a tank? Even if they don't, they are still a useful addition to a tank.

 

[TwoTankAmin19]

What determines whether live plants have nitrifiers on them is whether of not the plants have been in water which has some level of ammonia in it. When it comes to dealing with the nitrogen complex in our tanks it is all based on ammonia levels. The one exception to this would be nitrate which can be in our tap water mostly from terrestrial fertilizers. But, nitrate is partly handled both by facultative bacteria and, what we mostly rely on to do so, water changes.

Facultative bacteria can thrive using oxygen when it is present. When it is not they can switch to using nitrate. When they use nitrate what the then make is nitrogen gas (n2). I have these in my Poret matten filters and may also have some in my Poret cubefilters. There are a zillion potential passageways through a matten filter. In some of these the nitrifiers and heterotrophic bacteria which also inhabit in the nitrifying biofilm may use up all the O in the water going though that specific pathway. What the nitrifying bacteria do is to replace the oxygen with the nitrate they then get instead. When this happens that the facultative bacteria living in the specific flow path after the nitrifiers an thus get water lacking oxygen, will then convert to using the nitrate they now are getting.

Of course, if we have live plants in a tank where there are also fish and/or ineverts, we do not want and thus do not add ammonia, the plants will use nitrate to supply the nitrogen they need. Since there are nitrifiers on the plants using some of the ammonia, there is also some nitrate being created. the more plants we have, the less nitrate will be created, But when we use fertilisers, they cannot contain ammonia so instead they usually have some form of nitrate.

According the the Google AI citing Seachem as the source says this:

The nitrogen in Seachem Flourish Nitrogen comes from a blended chemical source consisting of potassium nitrate and urea (carbamide). [1, 2]

Chemical Composition

• Nitrate {NO3}: Provides immediate, direct nitrogen for plants that readily utilize nitrate.
• Urea/Ammonium Complex: Provides nitrogen in an ammonium form that is complexed and safely bound so that no toxic free ammonia is released into the aquarium until it is actively used by plants or converted.

Seachem also offers a nitrogen fertilizer for those who add the different needed components individually.

Amounts per 1 g
Total Nitrogen (N)	1.5%
Soluble Potash (K2O)	2%

Derived from: potassium nitrate, urea

Bear in mind that whem ammonia (NH3) is dissolved in water, most of it turns into ammonium (NH4). Byt the time the pH is 6.0 all of the Ttoal Ammonia in a tank in NH4.

For example: in a tank with a total ammonia reading of 5 ppm and with a pH of 6.0 and a temp. of even as high 85F, the amount of NH3 in the water is 0 ppm. It is all in form of NH4. However, the bacteria can also use this but not as efficiently as they can use NH3 which they prefer.

Plants can use ammonium faster than miscoroorganisms can use ammonia and even faster than they can use ammonium. One can have a tank with no plants and then the microorgaisms do the work (algae does some). But no matter how many plants or algae one has, there will also still be some level of nitrifiers (both AOB and AOA).

 

[Magnum Man25 140]

these couple American Frogbit, are starting roots like crazy. expect they’ll be sucking up byproducts as well…