3 season porch tank with native fish…

this native fish thing is kind of interesting… still thinking along the line of minnows, I was thinking of bait shops ( of course quarantining required… but around here, “suckers” have always been a tradition bait fish… turns out 2 are typical, one is just a juvenal sucker fish, that gets as big as a carp, and the actual sucker minnow, is kind of endangered in this state, seems higher populations are further south, but these sucker minnows are similar to a lot of the algae eaters in the aquarium trade, only they are a cool water fish… interesting, and I may try to find a few, to add next year, if the tank survives the winter… there are so many small cool water fish species, it may give me interesting reading on a cold winters night😉
 
rainbow shiner feeling pretty today… still haven’t heard anything about shipping my blue spot sunfish yet
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today the controllers for the heaters got moved to the actual window behind the tank, so the outside of the tank is fully smooth for easy on / off of the foam insulation cover ( yet to be put together yet ), and the controllers can be read from within the house…
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cold season is coming… last night the low temp was in the low 40’s F. heaters are still almost never running… I have 2 of the 3 screened sided of the porch fully covered by the shades, and that made a dramatic difference in the wind yesterday… we will still get days that go over 80 degrees for a high, and we haven’t had a frost yet, over night, but it’s coming… I’m installing a storm door on the 3rd screened side, and once that is done ( probably today ), I’ll be able to put a shade on each side of the door, and the screens will be pretty much buttoned up for the winter… then next project is the slip on insulted foam box, to cover the tank… I’m hoping my sunfish ship, while the tank is still open for viewing…

I may bump up the heaters a degree or two, as the American Frogbit is growing, but the tropical plants are probably all colder than they like… only the sword is showing any negative signs at this temp though, so I may move that pot to a tropical hard water tank… it’ll be kind of an experiment, to see which, if any of the other plants can over winter with temps in the mid 60’s or if I end up moving them during my at least weekly service of the tank over winter???
 
I do not want to hear this happened. But I am still nervous about if the fish can survive over the winter due to cold temps. I am rooting for you to have success.
 
so, it’s cool and windy today… these installed shades, with full length bungee cords every 18 inches are staying nicely in place, and with me sitting by the tank, it is “drafty” but certainly not breezy… I’m working on the east side today, being an angled, with the roof pitch, wall, the shades require them to be mounted level, so I’m installing a storm door, with a dog door on the bottom in the center of this wall so my shades will be shorter on each side ( easier to level )… slowly getting ready for winter… the strip of screen between these shades, seen in the 1st picture, will get a strip of truck tarp material, fastened with grommets and thumb screws to seal that gap, that will be removable for winter use, and only added to stop blowing snow from invading the porch…
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You may be able to reduce the potential for wind, rain or snow getting in, but how will you prevent whatever the temp. is outside also being the temp. inside?

Take a styro which one would use to ship fish and put a thermometer inside of it in the dead of winter and leave it outside for a day or two. If the temp. outside is 20ºF (and this means ignore what the temp. is wind chill wise) and what do you think the thermometer inside the styro would read? My bet is 20ºF.

And this is why I say I am worried. While I did not leave them outside years round, I did tanks every summer on our screened terrace which had 3 sides screened and the 4th was the end of the house. I was doing warm water plecos which meant I needed the tank water to stay above about 77ºF. I started up the tanks at the end of May but all that ran at first was the bio-farm for cycling all the filters. Since the fish could handle over 90ºF, high temp. was not a problem, but at the start and end of the season the overnight temps. were.

I was able to keep the tanks heated OK at night as long as the temps stayed about 55ºF or above, By the end of my outdoor season I could protect the tanks from an overnight low in the low 50s and even the high 40s as long as it was worst overnight temp. as the sun would bring the temps back up into the high 50s to the low 70s. When I would see a lower number coming up for a single night, I could cover the tanks with towels and blankets.

I had major heating in the tanks - think 15 -20 wpg. A 20L had 150-200 wpg and the 40Bs got 375 or more. When the season temps needed more heat, it was time in the later spring to wait before fish went into the tanks. In the early fall that was when the fish came out and the tanks were shut down. Sometime for a very shrt term need for motre wattage I would ad another heater. Usually, this was after some of the tanks had become devoid of fish amd only a few tanks needed the extra heater.

I did not take any steps to use shades or anything else to help block wind etc. I also did not surround the tanks with styro or insulation as you are doing as I did not have outdoor tanks year round. I live about 35 miles NNE of NYC. We do get some really cold temps in winter. 20ºF is not unusual and I have seen it at 0º or few degrees lower as the worst it might get. But, mostly it is below freezing down to 20ºF. I assume it is similar where you are?

What I see as being your worst nightmare is deciding it is about to get colder than your set-up can handle and so it cannot keep the fish safe. How can you possibly rescue the fish if it is close to 0º when you might have to do so? Here is how my summer terrace tanks looked when I did weekly water changes, I pumped the water out the door in the 2nd pic. The end ff the house was both a sold wall and then a sliding door set-up to get onto the terrace from the house.
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some rearranging inside the house, and my desk is now inside the window, that’s behind the tank… doing some thinking now, if I can get by with the foam insulation cover , being 6 inch’s higher than the tank ( it may have frost advantages, or disadvantages ) but looking at ways I can view into the tank a little from inside the house, during the winter… in this picture I can see into the top of the tank, so if the top of the box was 6 inches over the top of the tank, I could see the frog bit you can see in this picture…

I do not want to see the house siding through the tank, from the other side, in the porch, which the picture background hides, but maybe I could cut down a little, only where the window is, so I could actually see through the back, as I was planning on only having the box cover the top few inches of the back, to hold it in place, if the top fits snuggly to the top of the tank… a few things / options to consider…

the tank through the window, sitting at my desk.. ( now I’m going to have to actually clean this window, we didn’t really use it before, stacking stuff in front of it… now I have a reason to look out of it…
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so, also there is basement, beneath the patio… and while we don’t keep that room hot, it is at room temperature, so even prior to me winterizing this porch, the snow always melted off the floor, so there is radiant heat coming from the floor… the more I seal the porch up, the warmer it will be… it’s still not insulated, but will be a buffer on the north side of the house, to block the coldest air from that exterior wall, of the house ( multi purpose )

the local pet store keeps ghost / glass shrimp, ( Palaemonetes paludosus ) in stock, for 50 cents a piece… I’m going to add a colony of them, as I think they are fine in the temperature range of this tank… when the dwarf sunfish arrive and mature, I’m sure the shrimp will be a food source for the bigger ones… I’ve been really happy with this tank lately I’m sure the rainbow shiners will be putting on a show come spring, just hoping I get to enjoy the sunfish, before the tank goes into winter mode… if the banded sunfish come back in stock, I’ll add a few, unless the blue spotted fill the tank 1st…

 
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this is one of the most informative bits I’ve found on ghost shrimp… which they list as perfect for a native tank…


I learned a lot with this link… for example, as a keeper of 4 different color forms of neocardia, I assumed they bred the same, however ghost shrimp got rough a larval stage… so this should be interesting, but I expect I’ll have to renew the clan pretty regularly, as I expect even the minnows would eat eggs, and larva, and ghost shrimp die, after they breed… so I’ll be starting with a dozen or so…
 
an adult, and a baby trap door snail, on the back wall of the tank… the baby is now adult pest snail size, it’s doubled in size, over the last couple weeks ) still just the 2 baby snails in this tank ), and I consider myself lucky, that with the addition of all these live plants, that I haven’t seen any eggs or pest snails ( so far )

today I’m going to try to add the glass shrimp…
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I saw 80 degrees a couple days this week, in the forecast, so no winter yet…
 
a dozen ghost shrimp added today… local shop keeps them in stock, as feeders, so if they don’t get established in this tank, before the sunfish arrive, I’ll just buy more as needed
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