Why Do Some People Not Cover Their Tanks?

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Actually there is still something i'm wondering. Someone stated earlier on in the thread that they had to have an open top tank as otherwise the lighting for the tank would fry the fish/over-heat the tank. Do plants really need lighting this strong to grow?

You can light a planted tank to varying degrees, depending the type of plants and growth you are after. a lot of planted and reef tanks use Metal halide lighting which does get very hot. I have a tank with two 55W T5 PC under the hood (ironic that they are on my covered tank), which can get very hot to the touch, but the effect they have on my water temperature is minimal. Metal Halides and T5s give you more Watts per £, but the down side can be the heat they generate.

People looking for high tech planted tanks in which you can grow practically anything aim for 2WPG. As you probably know, most off the shelf tanks come with a lot less light than this.

Dave.

So it would actually be posible to have a planted tank with a hood on top with lighting that encouraged good plant growth, and not have to worry about the tank over-heating? I've seen some planted tanks with hoods which look very nice, like these ones;

http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/...p?article_id=80

http/rockymountaindiscus.com/images/leeland.jpg

http/www.trilbytropicals.com/coralpictur...es/DSCN1212.JPG


I'm no planted tank expert, but lighting strong enough to overheat a hooded tank to a stressful degree for fish just sounds a bit excessive to me. My main tanks have (if i remember correctly) 2x 36W long flourescent tubes in each of them and they all have hoods on the tanks and my plants seem to do fine .

 

[Tolak]

One thing that needs to be taken into consideration with open top tanks is evaporation, condensation, and the possiblity of mold growth or even structural damage. While this looks like a really beautiful tank, there is without a doubt quite a bit of evaporation. I would bet it tends to condense behing those pictures, especially if they are on an outside wall in a cooler climate, with mold soon to follow. Mold is a health concern.

Whilst I admit that the levels of evaporation never cease to surprise me, all your talk about mold is speculation and the talk about structural damage is laughable. Are you telling me the tank in the picture I posted is going to bring the house down around it.

I am willing to bet you every penny I have earnt this month that those pictures do not get condensation behind them.

Fact: there is no evidence of condensation anywhere in my living room with a 60l and a 24l open top tank.

Fact: there is zero mold in my living room.

Fact: I only get a faint (and pleasant) earthy smell if I hang my nose directly over the tanks.

There is a lot of speculation as to why people shouldn`t have open topped tanks, but nobody but me and Llj seem to be talking from experience and giving factual information. I know a lot of people don`t like the idea of open topped tanks because they think there is a certain level of irresponsibility involved, and I am sure you will continue unwavered in this belief. I shall just carry on observing what I see before me, even if it flies in the face of what a lot of people may think of my ability to keep fish.

I am very grateful to this forum because I learnt a huge amount before I even put my first drop of water in to a fish tank, but I feel I have moved on and become a competent and inquisitive aquarist. Consequently, I am able to do a little work and experimenting for myself, and a lot of what I am finding out explodes several myths perpetuated by some. There is a lot of great information around for the beginner, information that has enabled me to set up three tanks without a single loss. More experienced people should open their minds to what is actually happening in this hobby, and start to find things out for themselves rather than being spoon fed information from this forum.

I apologise for getting on my high horse again, but I just can`t help myself when people conjure up baseless statements to support their side of the discussion, especially experienced moderators who, doubtless, are influential in the thinking of the less experienced people on this forum.

Dave.

Dave.

The talk about mold is not speculation, this is a real and definite concern with people running multiple tanks, and especially in a room that doesn’t have adequate air circulation and/or ventilation. While a 24l & a 60l aren’t going to cause many problems in a larger room, larger tanks certainly can and will.

If you like I will pull out a tank in my fishroom and show you some of the mold that likes to grow in the corners, areas that are cooler with less ventilation. This is not something to be sarcastic about, and is a real health concern among aquarists with multiple tanks, especially breeders with many tanks in a comparatively small area. For aquarists who are even slightly into breeding and selling a 60l tank is a size between a hatching & small growout tank, a 24l is a hatching tank or a bucket. I am not saying your pair of small tanks in your living room will bring down the house around it, but I have seen first hand what longer term condensation, mold growth, and structural damage can be caused by open top tanks.

Here’s a picture of the 65 gallon in my living room, been running for a little over 3 years in that spot;

The pictures to the left are on an inside wall, the wall on the right is an outside wall, and does get some condensation. That is why there are no pictures there, the condensation can, and does cause mold. You can see some of the damage condensation has done to the hood, this needs to be redone this summer.

Fact; I get mold in the corners of my fishroom due to condensation.

Fact; I get mold on the exterior wall of my house by the 65 if I hang pictures there.

More experienced aquarists don’t just sit on the computer, they are out there experiencing and learning. I am at other breeders fishrooms on a regular basis, my fishroom with 17 tanks & 560 gallons is small to average size. One local breeder has open tanks, running around 30 tanks, open topped due to his auto water changing setup. Mold is a constant battle, if Imageshack let me post a link to smells I would do so, but the whole house has a musty smell.

Another breeder has around 25 tanks, all covered. He has no problem with mold, and his house doesn’t smell like a cave. One breeder another state away from me recently shut down an operation he had going for many years due to retirement. 300 open top tanks running for a couple of decades will do structural damage, I will take pictures next time I am out there. Ceiling joists that are half rotted, even though his facility was built with treated lumber. I know of another breeder who had to shut down his fishroom due to sealing the room too well, and having inadequate ventilation. The mold got so bad his kids were having allergy problems.

None of this is conjured up, all these statements are true, feel free to pm me and I will give you phone numbers of people to talk to concerning any & all of the situations I have mentioned. While most people don’t have the size & quantity of aquatics setups I’m used to dealing with on a regular basis, the problem of condensation & mold is a real problem for folks with several tanks in a smaller area.

Moderators here are probably more influential in the thinking of less experienced aquarists here, and we all started out as less experienced aquarists. Five years ago I had a 10 gallon, & a 55 gallon. As things expanded and a fishroom was set up, ventilation & mold was something that was not considered at first, but had to be taken into consideration as problems arose. I brought this up not as a shot at your tank, which I mentioned is very nice, but as something for others to think about in the event they are planning a similar setup in the future.

John

 

[raptorrex]

Actually there is still something i'm wondering. Someone stated earlier on in the thread that they had to have an open top tank as otherwise the lighting for the tank would fry the fish/over-heat the tank. Do plants really need lighting this strong to grow?

as far as i can tell, its the length of time and the colour frequency, of the light that have the most effect. though intensity does seem to effect land plants, but only for the ripening of its fruit/grain. lol but its a problem telling someone that their expensive overhead lights, are not much better than 2 £9.99 tubes. still cant see why someone would let valuable fish die guess leafs must be more fun to watch. I can understand someone saying, "im prepared to take the chance", but to refuse to accept the truth what Tokis-Phoenix is saying is plain common sense. most fish jump, and if you let water evaporate freely it will cause mould. both comments are for most of us a "No Brainer". and something even none fish keeping people have no problems accepting.

to recap:
these tanks may look good but they are impractical for 2 reasons, your fish are not safe and they cause damage, over time, to the room and deccor.

as for the size of fish being a factor, bull poop! the fish that went furtherest and jumped most often was a silvertip tetra. as i recall not the biggest fish i have kept.

 

[andywg]

You can light a planted tank to varying degrees, depending the type of plants and growth you are after. a lot of planted and reef tanks use Metal halide lighting which does get very hot. I have a tank with two 55W T5 PC under the hood (ironic that they are on my covered tank), which can get very hot to the touch, but the effect they have on my water temperature is minimal. Metal Halides and T5s give you more Watts per £, but the down side can be the heat they generate.

I use Metal Halide on both FW and SW tanks (though grow no plants) and have no problems with heat as I have the MH a decent amount of space from the tank and a well aerated hood. Anyone who states they can't have a lid because they have heat issues is just too lazy to come up with a better designed system to prevent that problem.

I can perfectly understand someone saying they do it for the aesthetics, but saying they do it for the heat is just sheer laziness in my mind. If I can run a 30 gallon tank with metal halides and PC without any heat issues in the middle of summer, then so can others.

Also, having run both T5 and MH, there is no comparison in the heat generated. MH burn hot, T5 is the same as PC (PC are just bent T5).

 

[stang1]

I keep a lid on all of my tanks but I'm just paranoid about fish jumping out or escaping!
My partner made a perspex lid for our saltwater tank and it works fine. The tank doesn't get too hot and there's plenty of lighting for the corals.

 

[Dave Spencer]

I use Metal Halide on both FW and SW tanks (though grow no plants) and have no problems with heat as I have the MH a decent amount of space from the tank and a well aerated hood. Anyone who states they can't have a lid because they have heat issues is just too lazy to come up with a better designed system to prevent that problem.

I can perfectly understand someone saying they do it for the aesthetics, but saying they do it for the heat is just sheer laziness in my mind. If I can run a 30 gallon tank with metal halides and PC without any heat issues in the middle of summer, then so can others.

Also, having run both T5 and MH, there is no comparison in the heat generated. MH burn hot, T5 is the same as PC (PC are just bent T5).

I agree entirely with this statement. I have two open topped tanks for aesthetics and I have two T5s under a tank with a lid. I was prepared to set up a cooling fan under the lid, but I found I didn`t need it.

Dave.

 

[Dave Spencer]

as far as i can tell, its the length of time and the colour frequency, of the light that have the most effect. though intensity does seem to effect land plants, but only for the ripening of its fruit/grain. lol but its a problem telling someone that their expensive overhead lights, are not much better than 2 £9.99 tubes.

The intensity counts for a lot too. Secondly, I buy some very good tubes for less than £9.99. When have you had problems telling people about their expensive lights? Perhaps you are making up to make a point.

still cant see why someone would let valuable fish die

My fish don`t jump out.

guess leafs must be more fun to watch.

Well done Boboboy, let`s all have a slanging match. Whose aspect of fishkeeping is best?

I can understand someone saying, "im prepared to take the chance", but to refuse to accept the truth

Everything I have said about my open topped tanks is the truth. Everything you say is speculation.

both comments are for most of us a "No Brainer".

I always try to use my brain and question percieved truths. You let your brain accept what it is told without question as much as you want.

and something even none fish keeping people have no problems accepting.

There can`t be many non fish keeping people on this forum. I`m not aware of any.

to recap:
these tanks may look good but they are impractical for 2 reasons, your fish are not safe and they cause damage, over time, to the room and deccor.

Tolak makes a fair point about mould and I will take it on board. At least he is talking from experience, like I am with open topped tanks. YTou are not.

as for the size of fish being a factor, bull poop! the fish that went furtherest and jumped most often was a silvertip tetra. as i recall not the biggest fish i have kept.

I don`t recall mentioning the size of fish being a factor.

Dave.

 

[Dave Spencer]

The talk about mold is not speculation, this is a real and definite concern with people running multiple tanks, and especially in a room that doesn’t have adequate air circulation and/or ventilation. While a 24l & a 60l aren’t going to cause many problems in a larger room, larger tanks certainly can and will.
John

Thanks for the infromation John, at least you can make this statement from experience. I will take it on board, but I am confident that I will not have issues with mould. All my arguments are from my stand point and what I know to be true in my instance. I know what I am doing, and my only real concern with my two tanks is somebody spraying aerosols near them. This is not going to happen either.

Giving people a heads up as to possible pitfalls is worthwhile, but open topped tanks shouldn`t be written off.

Dave.

 

[raptorrex]

as far as i can tell, its the length of time and the colour frequency, of the light that have the most effect. though intensity does seem to effect land plants, but only for the ripening of its fruit/grain. lol but its a problem telling someone that their expensive overhead lights, are not much better than 2 £9.99 tubes.

The intensity counts for a lot too. Secondly, I buy some very good tubes for less than £9.99. When have you had problems telling people about their expensive lights? Perhaps you are making up to make a point.

yep i have and we had quite an argument, as we were looking at a tank from another member, of forum i mod on. this was a closed/hooded tank, with two 25w tubes. apart from being smaller, you could not tell any difference between the two! the open tank had several hundred $ worth of lights, the hooded tank had one $20 ballast.

still cant see why someone would let valuable fish die

My fish don`t jump out.

ok thats fair enough. but most do and not all keepers will have your luck.

guess leafs must be more fun to watch.

Well done Boboboy, let`s all have a slanging match. Whose aspect of fishkeeping is best?

humm, a fair point but it does illustrate a point, whilst not being litteral. and is growing plants fishkeping?

I can understand someone saying, "im prepared to take the chance", but to refuse to accept the truth

Everything I have said about my open topped tanks is the truth. Everything you say is speculation.

really so my experience with fish jumping out of the tank is imagination??? its a comment i find arrogant and deluded!

both comments are for most of us a "No Brainer".

I always try to use my brain and question percieved truths. You let your brain accept what it is told without question as much as you want.

nobody told me any of this. thermo and hydro dynamics, are not that hard to get your head around. well the basics anyway. water evaporates, enclosed water still evaporates, but much re condenses in the lid, and makes its way back into the tank. un enclosed water, will re condense on your walls or celling, and never makes it back into the tank. at this time of year, even with an enclosed tank, i lose 17 litres or so per week. its got to go somewhere! i'm not sure but you seem to think you have some sort of mental capacity i don't. i think you may find you are wrong.

 

[raptorrex]

and something even none fish keeping people have no problems accepting.

There can`t be many non fish keeping people on this forum. I`m not aware of any.

not sure about you but i know some people who are not on the forum, or any for that matter. some of them here as i write.

to recap:
these tanks may look good but they are impractical for 2 reasons, your fish are not safe and they cause damage, over time, to the room and deccor.

Tolak makes a fair point about mould and I will take it on board. At least he is talking from experience, like I am with open topped tanks. YTou are not.

so you say i have no knowledge of mould caused by evaporation? another very arrogant comment, i have spent a number of years in and around the building trade. this sort of damage from cookers and old water heater, not to mention the problems caused when fitting early double glazing, which often had no ventilation. give me a good idea of how these thing happen. and even silly old me noticed the damage to pictures and paper by my tank.

as for the size of fish being a factor, bull poop! the fish that went furtherest and jumped most often was a silvertip tetra. as i recall not the biggest fish i have kept.

I don`t recall mentioning the size of fish being a factor.

oh you did! i should re read your own posts.

the gist of the posts you have made, to me at least, started as suggesting that these things did not happen, or at least to any great extent this seems now to have changed. you concentration on my posts, which said nothing more than posts by any other participant in this thread, seem strange. but is welcome to me. lol i was never personal with you so i suggest you "hush your mouth" with the personal attacks on me, and get on with the thread. i will field any more questions you have on my knowledge of this subject with relish, just miss out the personal attacks.

 

[FishRfine]

do you notice how that tank on page 1 doesnt have any fish in it?

well, thats why theres no top! only dead fish don't jump. being an arowana keeper, i emphisize this.

 

[fish-r-fancy]

As the title says, why do some people not cover their tanks?

Some people like this type of look, Tokis:

Dave.

do you notice how that tank on page 1 doesnt have any fish in it?

well, thats why theres no top! only dead fish don't jump. being an arowana keeper, i emphisize this.

Actually, it does have fish, looke right to the right of the smaller piece or bogwood (or whatever) it is, right where the plants are lowest and you can see like 8 rummy nise tetras.

 

[smooth_bourbon]

I used to leave the lid open on my 80 gallon when I had my Oscar in it, otherwise he would swim up into it and bang his head on it, banging the lid open and closed, and I would think hurting his head. Once I started leaving it open he would splash me from 10 feet away while I was sleeping. little spoiled brat

edited for spelling

 

[zoekin8yg]

Fish dont have to be scared to jump, in nearly every lfs I have been to the fish have all moved between tanks as they all jump between tanks when there arent lids. I keep lids on all my tanks, but I keep bettas and they are sneaky buggers

 

[pica_nuttalli]

my planted 10g is an "open-top" tank--except that i have a mesh lizard lid on it. since i use a whisper internal filter in it and a halogen desk lamp for lighting, its my only tank that's 100% sealed.

i think that if i ever got one of those open top tanks like that shown in the photo, i would make a large mesh lid for it using screen door material and a white or clear plastic frame. it should be possible to make a rather inobtrusive lid for it without sacrificing too much of the asthetic. best of both worlds!