Why Do Some People Not Cover Their Tanks?

[mezrie]

Very thick question i should think but for someone thinking of getting an open tank, what would you advise filter and heating wise? What type of light would you need? I'm just curious how it all goes together and looks as i'm thinking of doing it myself.

 

[mezrie]

Very thick question i should think but for someone thinking of getting an open tank, what would you advise filter and heating wise? What type of light would you need? I'm just curious how it all goes together and looks as i'm thinking of doing it myself.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Hey, I always figured, if your fish is happy enough, it wouldn't want to jump out.

Funny story. When I had my first aquarium, I had put it in my room. I had a flap open, and apparently a fish had jumped out, and landed behind my drawer. Come moving day, I pack everything up, and there on my rug was a mummified fish .

So your fish must have not been happy in your tank as according to you fish only jump out when they're unhappy?




Personally i disagree with the belief that fish only jump out of their tanks when they're unhappy. As in my first post, something like this could happen: "An insect may buzz above the surface of the water, the fish may try to jump and catch it, but ends up finding itself flopping around on the floor below the tank".

As the title says, why do some people not cover their tanks?

Some people like this type of look, Tokis:

Dave.

But this is exactly what CFC is saying- you might like the look of such a tank, but its dangerous for fish in that they hardly have to flop in the water to land themselves on the floor. Such a tank puts plants needs before the fish, personally i don't think the plants well being should be put before the fishes safety.

with high lighting tanks temp control can be an issue, Ian leaves his lid off his planted tank to allow for more evaporation otherwise the fish would boil up

Do plants really need lighting that strong to grow though? Lots of evaporation in tanks can sometimes lead to PH Crash in older tank set ups, as all the evaporation from the water causes the mineral content of the tank to rise a lot over time, which can suddenly cause the ph to crash.

 

[Dave Spencer]

But this is exactly what CFC is saying- you might like the look of such a tank, but its dangerous for fish in that they hardly have to flop in the water to land themselves on the floor. Such a tank puts plants needs before the fish, personally i don't think the plants well being should be put before the fishes safety.

OK Tokis, you win. I have open topped tanks and fish are constantly leaping out and in to my lap. It is becoming a real chore picking them up and putting them back in the tank. What with that and using a scraper to get the dry ones off the carpet I`ll go and buy some lids.

with high lighting tanks temp control can be an issue, Ian leaves his lid off his planted tank to allow for more evaporation otherwise the fish would boil up

Do plants really need lighting that strong to grow though? Lots of evaporation in tanks can sometimes lead to PH Crash in older tank set ups, as all the evaporation from the water causes the mineral content of the tank to rise a lot over time, which can suddenly cause the ph to crash.

I run three high tech planted tanks and would be very happy to discuss their lighting requirements with you. High light tanks have 50% water changes every week which avoids any pH crashes, if indeed they are going to happen.

Dave.

EDIT: Tanks like the one I posted usually have the water level a little below the rim. It is only topped up to the rim for the purpose of the photograph.

ANOTHER EDIT: The water level is run below the rim because you quickly learn that dipping your hands in to a brimming tank creates a nice waterfall effect, not because we think our fish are going to jump out.

 

[lljdma06]

But this is exactly what CFC is saying- you might like the look of such a tank, but its dangerous for fish in that they hardly have to flop in the water to land themselves on the floor. Such a tank puts plants needs before the fish, personally i don't think the plants well being should be put before the fishes safety.

OK Tokis, you win. I have open topped tanks and fish are constantly leaping out and in to my lap. It is becoming a real chore picking them up and putting them back in the tank. What with that and using a scraper to get the dry ones off the carpet I`ll go and buy some lids.

You must be a very busy man, Dave. Constantly picking up fish. I feel very sorry for you. We European hobbiests, constantly picking up dried fish from the floor. Wait a minute, I'm not European, am I?

llj

PS: I say it is a house with a slight problem if flies are constantly buzzing about, making fish jump out of their tanks. I do not have this, and I am in FL. Warm and with flies all year round. But not in my house.

 

[Ilya]

No my fish weren't happy. Because I knew virtually nothing about fish keeping at the time. Keep in mind, I was only 13.

 

[three-fingers]

My nano planted doesnt have a hood because I like to have the plants growing up and out the water...I've never had a fish jump out of it (though I've only had it since October). On the other hand, I've had a hatchet fish jump out a tank with a hood, the hole was barely big enough for the fish to fit through and to this day I don't know how the poor thing got through there .

Other than the jumping for the fly scenario (which is a bit silly unless we are talking about a specific species that jumps for flies), I'd say fish mainly jump when scared. With a heavily planted tank, the fish will just dart into a dense group of plants. This is not applicable to a lot of surface dwellers though.

For me, planted tanks are more about providing a comfortable and natural environment for the fish than having a breathtaking amano-style aquascape - but It's very possible to achieve both.

Fish don't jump for no good reason...maybe with the exception of a few species, but none I can think of in the aquarium trade.
I personally think it's more important to stop a fish jumping in the first place than putting a hood on to stop them harming themselves when they do jump, but that's just me .

 

[fishlette]

lol how can such a simple question get such a response. i have to agree with tokis. i mean do we get in a car and go 'i wont wear a seatbelt today cause i dont think i will have an accident?' no, we put our seat belt on because it is quite possible you will have an accident and its better safe than sorry. same with a lid. you might not have fish jumping every day but it only needs to happen once, to your favourite fish and you will soon have lids trust me

ive seen many aquarium fish jump out. clown loaches, tetras of some kinds, platys and of course bettas. and not always has there been a "reason" for it. i dont like finding my fishies fried up on the floor or my dog chewing on something only to find its a fishie who has obviously been given too much room to move, in his mouth.

why spend money on fish if we arent going to take the adequate steps needed to protect our investments?

 

[QuotheRaven]

I understand why but I do not see how it is asthetically better than with a lid...Just the other day a eel escaped from a sealed tank but because I smashed the front part of the lid I have to use Gutter guard for the front part of my tank to stop fish escaping sadly one of my spiny eel's escaped the 3 inches from the water level to lid then the tiny gap between the gutterguard and the other part of the lid then down off the tank then out to my floor in pitch dark while I slept.... I can't imagine how many fish I would of lost if I had no lid

 

[vinylman]

Again, it's entirely down to whether the fish you keep are acknowledged 'jumpers' or not. I've not lost one in the three years I've had my tank set up.

 

[Arimus]

Just very nearly had good proof why I have lids.... left the front flap up while I went to get some frozen cubes to feed my fish - got back in the room just in time to stop one of our 10 week old kittens from becomming my 4th cat fish...

And as to the seat belt analogy - I wear mine as if I don't I get fined. Where I live some of the roads can be hard to pull out of with a seat belt on as they tend to stop you leaning forward (South Wales valleys have a lot of steep roads )

 

[fishlette]

Just very nearly had good proof why I have lids.... left the front flap up while I went to get some frozen cubes to feed my fish - got back in the room just in time to stop one of our 10 week old kittens from becomming my 4th cat fish...

And as to the seat belt analogy - I wear mine as if I don't I get fined. Where I live some of the roads can be hard to pull out of with a seat belt on as they tend to stop you leaning forward (South Wales valleys have a lot of steep roads )

although not the perfect analogy, i was only making a point. to me, wearing a seatbelt is the logical/responsible thing to do

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

But this is exactly what CFC is saying- you might like the look of such a tank, but its dangerous for fish in that they hardly have to flop in the water to land themselves on the floor. Such a tank puts plants needs before the fish, personally i don't think the plants well being should be put before the fishes safety.

OK Tokis, you win. I have open topped tanks and fish are constantly leaping out and in to my lap. It is becoming a real chore picking them up and putting them back in the tank. What with that and using a scraper to get the dry ones off the carpet I`ll go and buy some lids.

with high lighting tanks temp control can be an issue, Ian leaves his lid off his planted tank to allow for more evaporation otherwise the fish would boil up

Do plants really need lighting that strong to grow though? Lots of evaporation in tanks can sometimes lead to PH Crash in older tank set ups, as all the evaporation from the water causes the mineral content of the tank to rise a lot over time, which can suddenly cause the ph to crash.

I run three high tech planted tanks and would be very happy to discuss their lighting requirements with you. High light tanks have 50% water changes every week which avoids any pH crashes, if indeed they are going to happen.

Dave.

EDIT: Tanks like the one I posted usually have the water level a little below the rim. It is only topped up to the rim for the purpose of the photograph.

ANOTHER EDIT: The water level is run below the rim because you quickly learn that dipping your hands in to a brimming tank creates a nice waterfall effect, not because we think our fish are going to jump out.

Win? At what? This is just a general debate, there is no winning or losing here, its just a discussion- i'm just interested in seeing people's reasons for non-hooded tanks and why their defend their choices on such a thing etc. You don't need to be sarcastic.

I have a question though- if a fish did jump out of your tank, would you consider getting a hood for the tank? Or would that spoil the look of the tank too much to consider such a thing, honestly?

Saying you won't consider getting a hood because you've never had a fish jump out is like someone saying "i won't close the gate on my garden when my dog is in it because its never run away from me yet". The fact of the matter is that its not about how many fish you have or have not have jumped out of the tank, IMHO its about taking a precautionary measure to prevent them ever doing it.

You say the water level is only so high for the purpose of the photo, but i've seen tanks with water level almost as high as that with fish in the tank all the time either way (like tanks in petshops on display), so at least some people keep their tanks that full all the time and not just for photographys sake. Have you ever pointed out people that have admired your tank on the forum that you only have it that full for a short amount of time to take photo's of it? Personally i don't see the point in dressing up a tank in such a way just for a photo, because it is misleading to veiwers- this is just my personal opinion. Whenever i've posted photo's of my tanks, i take pictures of my tanks as they really are, which is clean functional tanks, good to look at but also practical too for both the fish and the maintaining of the tank etc. There are a lot of people that will veiw pictures of over people's tanks and try to re-create or copy certain aspects of other peoples tank set ups in their own tanks because they see other knowledgable fishkeepers doing such things and so assume it must be ok to do it in their own tank set ups etc.

 

[lljdma06]

I think what it boils down to is that people are going to disagree about this issue. I've got both kinds of tanks and tbh, the fish have jumped out of the lidded tanks and not my open-tops. Go figure. And in my 18 years of fish-keeping, I've lost maybe 3 fish to jumping. 2 of the incidents weren't even my fault, a friend was taking care of my tanks at the time and I had B. imbelis, which are notorious jumpers, and the tanks were covered with a hood and plastic wrap as a precaution because I know the habits of the fish I keep. So again, go figure.

The way I see it, having a planted tank is kind of like having a show dog. You keep the dog like normal when it's not in the ring and then when the show circuit is underway, you dress up the dog. You give it special cuts, you pay special attention to grooming and making sure it looks top notch. A photograph of a dog in show condition may not be what the dog looks like most of the time. Having a planted tank, especially if you are serious about competitions is kind of similar. You prune the plants extra carefully, you remove the hardware for photographs, you make the pictures as nice as possible. If it means filling up to the lid, then it means filling up to the lids. There is a standard for photography and imaging that a planted tanks need for competition or the tanks won't be taken seriously. A person who keeps predominantly fish tanks won't understand this. They don't enter their tanks into competitions for the most part. But this is an important aspect of the planted tank community. Betta keepers in betta shows will also change the conditions of their setups when it's near show time. The tank the betta is in has to best show off the finnage or body type or whatever.

Unfortunately, in their zeal to emulate the more experienced, some planted tank keepers, especially those new to the hobby, will not pay attention to the habits of their fish and accidents can occur. Hobbiests should know the habits of their fish, period. Would I keep an open top with danios or hatchet fish? Heck no! Can I take this chance with other species provided that I give them good cover and floating plants? Yes, I most certainly can and have had great success, even with surface-dwelling fish like platies and gouramis. But again, experience plays a factor.

Yes, this is a good discussion, but what is your ultimate goal, Tokis? I think the planted tank keepers have explained their reasons well enough. What more do you want to hear from us, that we know keeping open-top tanks are wrong but we do it anyway? I personally don't think I'm doing anything wrong by having an open-top, but would I advise it in every situation, no. And if you take a look at some of the planted threads, I'll be the first to jump on a member who has the wrong fish combination or who isn't paying attention to the species habits. If your goal is to change opinion, then I'm afraid you'll hit a brick wall. There's no changing opinions when the other party truely believes that their method is fine.

llj

 

[Dave Spencer]

Win? At what? This is just a general debate, there is no winning or losing here, its just a discussion- i'm just interested in seeing people's reasons for non-hooded tanks and why their defend their choices on such a thing etc. You don't need to be sarcastic.

People have given you their reasons for having open topped tanks, but have just tried to knock them back with ill informed statements about planted tank lighting requirements and water evaporation causing pH crashes.

I have a question though- if a fish did jump out of your tank, would you consider getting a hood for the tank? Or would that spoil the look of the tank too much to consider such a thing, honestly?

If a fish jumped out of my tank the first thing I would look at would be my CO2 levels (I inject pressurised CO2). My only concern with my open topped tanks is people using aerosols in the same room (which they are under strict instructions not to do). If your heater ever got stuck in the on position and boiled your fish, would you give up on tropicals and go coldwater only?

Saying you won't consider getting a hood because you've never had a fish jump out is like someone saying "i won't close the gate on my garden when my dog is in it because its never run away from me yet".

Dog`s have a pack animal instinct and will go wandering if given the opportunity. My fish do not have the jumping instinct, except possibly if they are distressed. A poor analogy when you think about it.

You say the water level is only so high for the purpose of the photo, but i've seen tanks with water level almost as high as that with fish in the tank all the time either way (like tanks in petshops on display), so at least some people keep their tanks that full all the time and not just for photographys sake.

Their tanks, their choice.

Personally i don't see the point in dressing up a tank in such a way just for a photo, because it is misleading to veiwers- this is just my personal opinion. Whenever i've posted photo's of my tanks, i take pictures of my tanks as they really are, which is clean functional tanks, good to look at but also practical too for both the fish and the maintaining of the tank etc.

Your tanks, your choice.

There are a lot of people that will veiw pictures of over people's tanks and try to re-create or copy certain aspects of other peoples tank set ups in their own tanks because they see other knowledgable fishkeepers doing such things and so assume it must be ok to do it in their own tank set ups etc.

I don`t see the likes of Takashi Amano, Oliver Knott, Tom Barr, Jeff Senske, Justin Law, Stephen Chong etc.... doing anything in their tanks that shouldn`t be done by anybody else.

I am by no means an experienced aquarist, but have learnt enough and am smart enough to know that there are many myths being perpetuated on this forum such as religious water testing, only adding Otos to mature tanks etc.... I, for one, will try to prevent another one starting about open topped tanks. Try to be more open minded. I stand by everything I do with my fish, and it is all chronicled in my tank journals in my signature for all to see and comment on. Every single one of those fish listed in the journals is still alive and very healthy and has not seen one single ailment.

My whole ethos is based around what my fish and plants are telling me, plus some of the more senior members of this and other forums, not testing this and that and listening to scaremongering hearsay.

Dave.