Why Do Some People Not Cover Their Tanks?

[Tokis-Phoenix]

People have given you their reasons for having open topped tanks, but have just tried to knock them back with ill informed statements about planted tank lighting requirements and water evaporation causing pH crashes.

I'm sorry, but i find your attitude is unesarsarily offensive. For example, "ill informed statements about plant lighting requirements", where may i ask?

If a fish jumped out of my tank the first thing I would look at would be my CO2 levels (I inject pressurised CO2). My only concern with my open topped tanks is people using aerosols in the same room (which they are under strict instructions not to do). If your heater ever got stuck in the on position and boiled your fish, would you give up on tropicals and go coldwater only?

I make the question really easy for you then- if one of you specially chosen fish jumped out of its tank for no particular reason like CO2 levels etc, would you
a. Put a hood on the tank
b. Don't keep the fish knowing that it could jump out again, considering its already done it once
c. Keep the fish and tank as you were before assuming that its not likely to happen again just as it wasn't likely to happen in the first place (and it only did because of bad luck or something).

Etc...

There are a lot of people that will veiw pictures of over people's tanks and try to re-create or copy certain aspects of other peoples tank set ups in their own tanks because they see other knowledgable fishkeepers doing such things and so assume it must be ok to do it in their own tank set ups etc.

I don`t see the likes of Takashi Amano, Oliver Knott, Tom Barr, Jeff Senske, Justin Law, Stephen Chong etc.... doing anything in their tanks that shouldn`t be done by anybody else.

I am by no means an experienced aquarist, but have learnt enough and am smart enough to know that there are many myths being perpetuated on this forum such as religious water testing, only adding Otos to mature tanks etc.... I, for one, will try to prevent another one starting about open topped tanks. Try to be more open minded. I stand by everything I do with my fish, and it is all chronicled in my tank journals in my signature for all to see and comment on. Every single one of those fish listed in the journals is still alive and very healthy and has not seen one single ailment.

My whole ethos is based around what my fish and plants are telling me, plus some of the more senior members of this and other forums, not testing this and that and listening to scaremongering hearsay.

Dave.

I am being open-minded by at least trying to hold a discussion on the subject and see other peoples views on the subject so i can advise others better on such things once the thread has come to a conclusion, what do you see as narrow-minded about that, huh ?
IMHO, you should try not to judge everybody as the same sort of person before you even know them, i'm not another one of those people spreading untrue myths and all that around the forum etc. Perhaps you are just another person who cannot stand anybody testing your opinions on various topics, but i'll leave that decision until i know you better .

Yes, this is a good discussion, but what is your ultimate goal, Tokis? I think the planted tank keepers have explained their reasons well enough. What more do you want to hear from us, that we know keeping open-top tanks are wrong but we do it anyway? I personally don't think I'm doing anything wrong by having an open-top, but would I advise it in every situation, no. And if you take a look at some of the planted threads, I'll be the first to jump on a member who has the wrong fish combination or who isn't paying attention to the species habits. If your goal is to change opinion, then I'm afraid you'll hit a brick wall. There's no changing opinions when the other party truely believes that their method is fine.

llj

My ultimate goal, as in to change others opinions? The thread wasn't intended to have one like that, as i said i'm just asking why they don't cover their tanks etc. Geez, its like everybody has to prove something in this forum in their threads now, whatever happened to just debating or discussing things for the sake of interest or curiosity? My goal is not to prove others wrong or anything like that, my goal is to see what other people's opinions are on the subject, so hopefully i can develop better informed opinions on it. By not completely accepting the first answer i get from the first planted tank enthusiast on the thread (which to be honest wasn't very indepth), at least then i get to give others a chance to express their views and opinions on the subject, that is all.
I mostly agree with your post though on various matters though concerning stocking fish in non-hooded tanks etc.

 

[CFC]

I'm sure we have all witnessed a group of fish suddenly start leaping from the water while we walk along a river or around a lake, this is most usually because the said fish are trying to evade a predator and leaping from the water is their natural response to danger.
Pretty much all normal aquarium fish are "bait fish" which in the wild spend their lives running the gauntlet of predators everyday, this flight response is hardwired into their brain from birth passed down in their genetics in order for them to survive. In a tank there are no predators but this reflex can also be triggered by a sudden loud noise or fast movement outside the tank, even switching the aquarium lights on in a darkened room can startle the fish, their natural response kicks in and they head skyward, they have no purposefull direction they are just going up and will land wherever they land but with only a few square feet of water surface area and the rest being dry land there is a very high chance the fish is going to end up dried up and crispy on the floor.

 

[lljdma06]

I'm sure we have all witnessed a group of fish suddenly start leaping from the water while we walk along a river or around a lake, this is most usually because the said fish are trying to evade a predator and leaping from the water is their natural response to danger.
Pretty much all normal aquarium fish are "bait fish" which in the wild spend their lives running the gauntlet of predators everyday, this flight response is hardwired into their brain from birth passed down in their genetics in order for them to survive. In a tank there are no predators but this reflex can also be triggered by a sudden loud noise or fast movement outside the tank, even switching the aquarium lights on in a darkened room can startle the fish, their natural response kicks in and they head skyward, they have no purposefull direction they are just going up and will land wherever they land but with only a few square feet of water surface area and the rest being dry land there is a very high chance the fish is going to end up dried up and crispy on the floor.

Having just watched Blue Planet on DVD, I've seen enough bait balls to know exactly what you're talking about. That's a fair point CFC, and again it boils down to knowing the habits of the fish you keep. In addition, one of the first things most of the aquarium books I've read say is that the tank should be in a room that is quiet, not positioned near drafts, and not positioned near a loud entry way or a door. Nor should the tank be near things that vibrate (TVs, radios, radiators, etc). My tanks are situated in this type of quiet location and since I don't keep predatory fish...I am pretty confident that I can enjoy the beauty of an open-top aquarium without my fish exiting my tank in a panic.

I will probably say that the open-top aquarium is not something I would recommend for just the fish-keeper or an inexperienced hobbiest. It is, however, a lovely option for an experienced hobbiest who enjoys the idea of being able to allow their plants to grow above the water level (something I personally like since I'm interested in emersed growth and flower production), it controls excess heat production by some of the lighting requirements for some planted tanks, and it is an aesthetic tank design that better showcases the planted aquarium for those hobbiests that are competition bound. That being said, proper fish choice is obviously going to be a factor if one choses this option.

llj

 

[Dave Spencer]

Guess I`ll have to cancel the firework display I was going to have in front of my tank of Mexican Jumping Fish.

Dave.

 

[borissimo]

I am not expert nor experienced enough not to cover my three tanks. The tank in the photo did look very attractive.

We have a tank of angels & bala sharks and some bottom fish at work. At the end of the day when I went to feed them I found a bala shark dead on the carpet and can only assume that when we were busy during the day one of the children of the customers opened the lid.

When we clean the bala shark tank one of us has to be on what we call 'shark watch' as they have a tendency to be drama queens (except at mealtimes, strange that ...)

I have always assumed that it is just in their nature and not that they are unhappy. Well I hope not, anyway.

None of the other fish tend to jump but I would not take the risk.

On the subject of tanks in Europe LFSs - I don't know about the rest of Europe but in England they normally have covers if they are bought as a package with filter, heater etc. I have always bought 'packages' but the annoying thing there is that the filters that are included are never really adequate.

 

[raptorrex]

yep im with the lid gang on this. sure the open topped tank looks good, but as with most things that look really good, the practical side is let down, a triumph of form over function. imo tanks are for keeping fish/inverts or other aquatic critters, whatever else you can do with them, is ok, but they must work. if your fish can get out, they DON'T. imho they are for keeping things in, which they dont with no lid, being able to look at them is just a side effect! and i fail to see why a fish would only jump if it is unhappy?? guess we have a lot of very unhappy fish in the rivers of this country. i see them jumping all the time, when out for walks. maybe the all want to live in a well planted open topped tank, and are just trying to make us understand!

the premise of Tokis-Phoenix thread was to ask why people did this!
he clearly said he "didn't get it". so it should hardly be a surprise that he would counter these reasons, with his experience and knowledge. we all do our own thing, lol i should know, but Tokis and CFC would be remiss, not to point out the pitfalls, doing this can cause.

 

[Tolak]

As the title says, why do some people not cover their tanks?

Some people like this type of look, Tokis:

Dave.

One thing that needs to be taken into consideration with open top tanks is evaporation, condensation, and the possiblity of mold growth or even structural damage. While this looks like a really beautiful tank, there is without a doubt quite a bit of evaporation. I would bet it tends to condense behing those pictures, especially if they are on an outside wall in a cooler climate, with mold soon to follow. Mold is a health concern.

This is usually more of a concern with multiple tanks in a room, especially in a designated fishroom. I keep all my tanks seriously covered, with a vent fan on a timer. I've seen the result of fishrooms with uncovered tanks, at minimum the house smells musty, and mold is a problem. At worst, over time, there is rotting of wooden structural members, as mold does hold moisture.

Just something to keep in mind if you plan on running open tanks; take the money you've saved on tops & buy bleach. It's good medicine for mold.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Very good points Tolak about the mold and evaporation problems .

Another problem that someone could have with such a tank is that there is no way you'd be able to have young children or pets like cats around such a tank, it would be all to easy for either to get into the tank or put something in it etc.

 

[Dave Spencer]

One thing that needs to be taken into consideration with open top tanks is evaporation, condensation, and the possiblity of mold growth or even structural damage. While this looks like a really beautiful tank, there is without a doubt quite a bit of evaporation. I would bet it tends to condense behing those pictures, especially if they are on an outside wall in a cooler climate, with mold soon to follow. Mold is a health concern.

Whilst I admit that the levels of evaporation never cease to surprise me, all your talk about mold is speculation and the talk about structural damage is laughable. Are you telling me the tank in the picture I posted is going to bring the house down around it.

I am willing to bet you every penny I have earnt this month that those pictures do not get condensation behind them.

Fact: there is no evidence of condensation anywhere in my living room with a 60l and a 24l open top tank.

Fact: there is zero mold in my living room.

Fact: I only get a faint (and pleasant) earthy smell if I hang my nose directly over the tanks.

There is a lot of speculation as to why people shouldn`t have open topped tanks, but nobody but me and Llj seem to be talking from experience and giving factual information. I know a lot of people don`t like the idea of open topped tanks because they think there is a certain level of irresponsibility involved, and I am sure you will continue unwavered in this belief. I shall just carry on observing what I see before me, even if it flies in the face of what a lot of people may think of my ability to keep fish.

I am very grateful to this forum because I learnt a huge amount before I even put my first drop of water in to a fish tank, but I feel I have moved on and become a competent and inquisitive aquarist. Consequently, I am able to do a little work and experimenting for myself, and a lot of what I am finding out explodes several myths perpetuated by some. There is a lot of great information around for the beginner, information that has enabled me to set up three tanks without a single loss. More experienced people should open their minds to what is actually happening in this hobby, and start to find things out for themselves rather than being spoon fed information from this forum.

I apologise for getting on my high horse again, but I just can`t help myself when people conjure up baseless statements to support their side of the discussion, especially experienced moderators who, doubtless, are influential in the thinking of the less experienced people on this forum.

Dave.

Dave.

 

[geo7x]

Whilst I admit that the levels of evaporation never cease to surprise me, all your talk about mold is speculation and the talk about structural damage is laughable. Are you telling me the tank in the picture I posted is going to bring the house down around it.

I am willing to bet you every penny I have earnt this month that those pictures do not get condensation behind them.

Fact: there is no evidence of condensation anywhere in my living room with a 60l and a 24l open top tank.

Fact: there is zero mold in my living room.

Fact: I only get a faint (and pleasant) earthy smell if I hang my nose directly over the tanks.

I think Tolak was rather referring to people who have a fish room with perhaps a couple of 6ft tanks, a couple of 4fts, a few 3fters and a bunch of 2fters, as opposed to a 24l and a 60l.

I for one know that Tolak has alot of tanks, and he has a fishroom. I am sure that being in the trade he is in, he has looked into this issue alot.

There is a lot of speculation as to why people shouldn`t have open topped tanks, but nobody but me and Llj seem to be talking from experience and giving factual information. I know a lot of people don`t like the idea of open topped tanks because they think there is a certain level of irresponsibility involved, and I am sure you will continue unwavered in this belief. I shall just carry on observing what I see before me, even if it flies in the face of what a lot of people may think of my ability to keep fish.

Guess I`ll have to cancel the firework display I was going to have in front of my tank of Mexican Jumping Fish.

I find this a bit rich coming from someone who is complaining about others lack of research and experience, as long as the above sentence is sarcastic, maybe you just havent had the experience of some fish.
Most if not all fish have the ability to jump, and i am presuming that you must have been particularly lucky with the fish in your open topped tanks.
What i can say though is that you obviously havent had fish in open topped tanks like eels, bichirs, snakeheads, bettas, killis, and many more, as these fish will jump if you give them the oppurtunity to. Some of them like the bichirs and snakeheads will not only jump but are quite capable of moving some distance on your floor. I don't know about you, but if i had a 2ft long ornate bichir, i wouldnt want to wake up to it wriggling along my carpet.

 

[Gill]

I do not like lids as i like to have plants growing out of the tanks, And i tend to chose more less jumpy fish. I have not had any fish jump out of the Cube when not using the lid.
If i have any Jumpy fish then a Cheap pane of glass as a lid is not a problem.

The only things i have probs with sometimes are my Apple snails when the go looking for egg laying places and find them under th Sofa or behind the TV.

 

[Dave Spencer]

I find this a bit rich coming from someone who is complaining about others lack of research and experience, as long as the above sentence is sarcastic, maybe you just havent had the experience of some fish.

I haven`t had experience with 99.9% of fish. How about you?

Most if not all fish have the ability to jump, and i am presuming that you must have been particularly lucky with the fish in your open topped tanks.

This is a tired statement now. I`ll stick what i can see with my two open tops.

What i can say though is that you obviously havent had fish in open topped tanks like eels, bichirs, snakeheads, bettas, killis, and many more, as these fish will jump if you give them the oppurtunity to. you, but if i had a 2ft long ornate bichir, i wouldnt want to wake up to it wriggling along my carpet.

I am not a keeper of big fish. The example of an open topped tank I posted shows where I am coming from, but I am 100% certain I would do plenty of research before I bought one.

Dave.

 

[geo7x]

I haven`t had experience with 99.9% of fish. How about you?

i meant some fish as in some certain fish, like the ones i stated.

This is a tired statement now.

funny that because its kind of true in alot of cases.

I am not a keeper of big fish.

good for you but im not sure what relevance this has to the topic. Alot of killis are tiny, bettas are small, some snakeheads are small, the dwarf species maxing out at 6-8", the smallest bichirs get to 12" at the best of times.

Infact im not really sure why im singling out certain fish as most fish jump.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Actually there is still something i'm wondering. Someone stated earlier on in the thread that they had to have an open top tank as otherwise the lighting for the tank would fry the fish/over-heat the tank. Do plants really need lighting this strong to grow?

 

[Dave Spencer]

Actually there is still something i'm wondering. Someone stated earlier on in the thread that they had to have an open top tank as otherwise the lighting for the tank would fry the fish/over-heat the tank. Do plants really need lighting this strong to grow?

You can light a planted tank to varying degrees, depending the type of plants and growth you are after. a lot of planted and reef tanks use Metal halide lighting which does get very hot. I have a tank with two 55W T5 PC under the hood (ironic that they are on my covered tank), which can get very hot to the touch, but the effect they have on my water temperature is minimal. Metal Halides and T5s give you more Watts per £, but the down side can be the heat they generate.

People looking for high tech planted tanks in which you can grow practically anything aim for 2WPG. As you probably know, most off the shelf tanks come with a lot less light than this.

Dave.