Why Do Noens Keep Diein?

[danny ..]

hi guys ,this all started when i brought my first tank a bi orb 60ltr(which i now realise y everyone hates them), i had bout 6 neons in it and only 2 managed to last the few months i kept the tank for,, iv now brought a 350ltr juwel tank which has been set up for about 4weeks with my other fish in which are. 1 albino red tail shark,,2 mollies,,1 congo tetra and 1big plec which never bothers anything o and 2 kuli loach.
so yesterday i went and brought 5 neons and 5 cardinal tetra as they will set the tank off with my other 2 but when i woke up this morning one was in half with the shark eatin it and it seems there are another 3 missing?? im totaly lost,iv looked in the filter box etc no sign! i now have 8 but just hope they last but more importantly


y do they die so easy

can i add my shark dont bother with the neons while there swimming round etc only chase the mollies at dinner time. thanks for reading dan!

 

[Simon.Chenery]

i have heard that neons are very delicate fish not so hard as other fish they need a mature tank...and for the 3 missing neons maybe your shark ate them?

 

[Katty]

but when i woke up this morning one was in half with the shark eatin it and it seems there are another 3 missing??

I may have misunderstood you, but I took this as he's been simply eating the neons? Then you might have your answer right there. They could be picking them off at night or something. But maybe I did misunderstand you and you meant he was eating the dead body of the neon? Neons are also sensitive fish and do better if they are put in a tank that has matured (has been running with fish in it for several months) tank. So he could also just have been "cleaning up" the neons that died due to sensitivity issues.

This may sound a little obvious, but is the tank cycled?

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

• Neons need a tank that is six weeks months mature, just like the African Fan Shrimps my LFS has just got in and I need to wait another six weeks at least to buy, which allows the tank to stabilise and for things we do not test for to infest the tank and its water. Not likely to get peace from RTS.
• Your Red Tail Shark will, if not already, terrorise everything in that tank except possibly the Plec. If you want a RTS, you need to house them with semi-aggressive tankmates that are robust and around the same size as the RTS. It will also need a larger tank very quickly if put initially in a Biorb60.
• Congo Tetra need to be in a group and again, needs a prompt tank size upgrade.
• Cardinal Tetra need a six months mature tank. Also not likely to get peace from RTS.
• "One big plec" is going to put a massive strain on that tank's bacteria, not to mention it will quickly become stunted, the extent of which will depend on which species it is eg. common plec should reach well over 40cm and would therefor need about a 5 or 6 foot long tank minimum.
• Kuhli Loaches are for more outgoing in groups and despite their size as adults (~10cm), will not strain bacteri loads in tanks.

 

[james_fish]

My input was not needed anymore. A mod quite rightly deleted the ignorant posts by other users.

Happy Fishkeeping!

James.

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

You put neons with a shark and wonder why they go missing or die? Seriously?? It might be small and seem fine during the day but sharks are nocturnal and will happily predate on snackable sized tankmates.
If on the minute chance the shark is not attacking the neons then you have water issues. I keep neons and they don't randomly die! My tank is very mature (7 years) as is the filter. They don't like tanks newly cycled (or, more accurately, newly cycled filters). Wait a good number of months before having them and then not with a shark.
As a student teacher and having worked with primary aged children with SEN (and having two of my own) not everyone has particularly good grammar. It is good to encourage the use of proper English. Please try to avoid abbreviation or text talk on forums; it can make comprehension tricky, especially for those who's first language isn't necessarily English.
Can I suggest that you would be better off having more congo tetras? They do very well in groups, even if he seems perfectly happy. And they tend to look much nicer as a group too. I plan on having a shoal in my 55g soon, once the Endlers have moved on (breed far too much).
P.

 

[danny ..]

fanks 4 the comments boyz,soz bout tha spelling tho,,,
on a seriouse note im crap at spelling etc so unlucky!

iv had another noen die this morning so thinking of giving them back to the local pet shop,
i didnt realise they needed a tank so mature etc so lesson learned,least i got more than just a moan bout the spelling out this thread! lol

i also didnt add i was given 4 baby mollies the other week which are a bit smaller than the neons and they have been fine , i no the shark chased the two big mollies round in the small biorb but now in a 350ltr 4ft tank they dont even look at each other,like there best mates now .id put it down to water with this in mind

thanks dan

 

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

This newish member needs help as his fish are dying. We shouldn't be jumping down his throat for his grammer or spelling.

James.

Totally agree, or "slightly wrong words" when we can understand it.

Glad you have sorted or at least come to a decision

 

[Curiosity101]

Right danny....

Although neons do significantly better in an older more balanced tank (6 months onwards as mentioned), people normally don't see such large die back as you're seeing unless something else is going on. My guess is you have an ammonia or nitrite spike.

We often see it were people come on here and say 'My water stats are good' or 'The fish shop said my water is fine'. But what we need are numbers. When you get a liquid test kit (not a paper or tablet based one as they aren't accurate enough). It'll give you water readings in numbers, the measurement is ppm (parts per million).
If you can't afford/find a test kit (my personal recommendation is the Freshwater API Master Test Kit, £18 ebay, £26ish in shops), then go to your local fish shop and ask them if they'll test your water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. And ask for the ppm values of each test result Write them down, and bring them back to us

Once we've ruled out water quality for sure we can move onto other possibilities.

And just to add, you may thing the congo tetra looks alright alone... but how would you know if you've never seen him in a shoal?
In the future when you've sorted out this issue please get him a group of mates, when you see them in groups you see more of their natural behaviours which includes displaying and breeding etc.

 

[crazychris]

Hi Danny. Neons are quite delicate fish and can just die in the first few days and weeks after buying, even in mature tanks and with very experienced fishkeepers like myself. I bought 6 last October and lost 4 during the next 3 weeks with no sign of disease, in a very mature tank, with nothing to bully them. Have still got the 2 surviving ones 10 months later and they're much bigger!! Bought 6 more in March and still have all those 6, so 8 altogether. Once you can get an established small shoal they're great little fish but best not to add any more as you may introduce neon tetra disease and lose them all! You could return the ones you have left and wait and then try some more in a few months or risk keeping them. If you like neons then don't let this bad experioence put you off them for good.

I'd also recommend the API liquid test kit. Got mine for £17.99 from Amazon, P&P included.

 

[ChilliPepper]

To be honest there has been far worse posts on here than this one where spelling and grammar could be picked up on. I think Alessa G was pretty rude in her reply though, it isn't necessary. I also hate 'txt spk' as well as poor grammar/spelling, but I think you could have phrased it better.

Anyway, moving on to danny's original post.

As has already been said, Neons and Cardinals are very sensitive fish who react badly to changes in water chemistry and/or immature filters. I'd take the rest back to the fish shop and try them again in a few months.

Congos, as with all Tetras, need to be in a group of 6+. You don't know he is happy, as he can't tell you. He's still alive, eating and swimming - is that your definition of happy? If so, as someone else mentioned, you won't see the full extent of his behaviour and he won't be really happy unless he is in a group. This is how they are in the wild.

Or you could take him back to the shop as well if you don't want to buy him some friends.

Your shark is a nocturnal predator, who is almost certainly picking off your Neons. They may be half-dead anyway, and he is just taking advantage.

Tankmates for Sharks could be Danios and/or Barbs, but again these need a group of 6+ (10+ for Tiger Barbs to minimize aggression).

You need to find out what kind of Plec you have as well. If it was a cheap one it is quite likely to be a Common Plec who will be putting a big strain on your filter.

 

[Inchworm]

I've had to cut some posts out of this thread due to trolling and flaming. If I have to edit this thread again, I will have no choice but to give the members involved time out on Mod's Preview.

Since it has long been our goal to be the "Friendliest Fish Forum Around," we insist that our members treat each other with respect and courtesy. In order to do that, we enforce our rules against trolling and flaming on our boards. These are the definitions we use in making that determination:

Flaming means posting, emailing or PMing an angry, rude, hostile, or mean-spirited comment to any member or group of members. It also means to speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some relatively uninteresting subject, whether or not it is related to the original subject of the thread or with a patently ridiculous attitude.

Trolling means making a post designed to attract predictable responses or 'flames.' They are often made for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion although they might be cleverly disguised as serious comments.

 

[BethK]

I think with all the inbreeding of neon tetras to get perfection, it has made them less hardy than they had previously been known for.

Stocking is important, it's best to spend time reading/researching, esp if you are getting any kind of shark. What you now have to do is possibly restock and rehome some current fish and stock around your albino shark, as he/she is the main center piece, always remember that they are territorial and aggressive,also a lower to middle dweller.

People suggest that if they are to be kept in a community, they are best off with corys, danios, barbs, loaches and plecs.

I would agree as above, to purchase an API freshwater test master's kit, £20 well worth spent to ensure your fish have a healthy and safe home.

You've come to the right place, please don't be afraid to ask any questions x

 

[danny ..]

nice one guys , iv not been on hear for a while so thanks for the help on this thread.iv not lost any more neons and they seem to look well colored etc so happy bout that.il look into one of them kits too.

p.s i think my plec is a common one but id rather not get rid of him cause his size etc , would i be right in thinking as long as i do my water changes etc and keep the water quality good he wont be to much of a problem hes about 6inch and looks like ya sory your typical plec

 

[crazychris]

p.s i think my plec is a common one but id rather not get rid of him cause his size etc , would i be right in thinking as long as i do my water changes etc and keep the water quality good he wont be to much of a problem hes about 6inch and looks like ya sory your typical plec

If he's a common plec he won't stay at 6" though Danny! I took mine in to the lfs at 14" long having bought him at about 2" so you see how big they grow. At that size they need a very big tank as they thrash around and disturb everything in the tank. It's up to you but why not look around for a bristlenose as they do stay small?