What is happening to my fry!?

[GaryE]

Egg yolk is more likely to pollute than be useful. I would suggest golden pearls (the smallest), krill fines, green water, liquifry, etc.

A fry isn't a fry. I can feed many species easily, but I pay attention to the ones with the smallest young. Rainbows have taught me a lot about fry size, while with other groups, Genera etc, feeding fry is no challenge at all. What I feed a freshly hatched Aphyosemion is what a 2-3 week old Iriatherina or some Melanotaenia gets.

 

[Rocky998]

Maybe I am just fortunate in that when I get fry, they muck in with everyone else, eat whatever is there...no specialised foods, just what everyone else is given. I thought I had just the one BN baby...nope....at last count (and they are really helpful cos they all hang out together) I have at least 10 of the blighters, all around an inch long, very healthy and no feeding issues with them or the Ram or Cory fry....they all seem ridiculously healthy and hearty.

As for generalisations, I would estimate that only around 10 to 20% of fry actually manage to get to the "I can see you" and able to stand up for themselves stage. Most get eaten by parents or other tankmates, some die due to genetic defect and some are the proverbial runts who didn't get a good start from hatching and are basically weaker and die.

Your fish are still quite young, they are very inexperienced as parents...and you sometimes find that what appears to be very attentive parenting (since you are new to the world of babies yourself aswell) possibly isn't as attentive as maybe they will be once they have had a few more batches and have figured out what they are meant to be doing.

It is very rare that you will get a 100% survivability rate on fry and there are a multitude of reasons why they don't make it. As you become more experienced and you try different feeding methods...and the fish themselves mature...then you might get an average 20% survivability if you are lucky. The more tetchy or demanding the fish, quite often the lower the percentage.

Oh yes. I know that there is a low survival rate of fry normally but not this low and this fast... I mean they just drop dead basically over night... The male always stays in the cave at all times fanning or he stays VERY close to the opening of the cave... The female is the "bad parent" lol...
I'm definitely inexperienced with breeding fish and caring for fry. I may use an unused and unwashed sock to put the egg yolk in and feed the fry.

 

[Rocky998]

Egg yolk is more likely to pollute than be useful. I would suggest golden pearls (the smallest), krill fines, green water, liquifry, etc.

A fry isn't a fry. I can feed many species easily, but I pay attention to the ones with the smallest young. Rainbows have taught me a lot about fry size, while with other groups, Genera etc, feeding fry is no challenge at all. What I feed a freshly hatched Aphyosemion is what a 2-3 week old Iriatherina or some Melanotaenia gets.

I cant hatch things that need saltwater so if any of those need saltwater to hatch, I cant. How do I make green water though?

 

[connorlindeman]

I cant hatch things that need saltwater so if any of those need saltwater to hatch, I cant. How do I make green water though?

i think that you add lettuce or grass clippings to the water and let it sit in the sun for a few days. a bubbler is beneficial in the process. I believe @Colin_T has a thread that talks about that

 

[Rocky998]

i think that you add lettuce or grass clippings to the water and let it sit in the sun for a few days. a bubbler is beneficial in the process. I believe @Colin_T has a thread that talks about that

that sounds like the process of making infusoria

 

[connorlindeman]

that sounds like the process of making infusoria

its a similar process

 

[connorlindeman]

GREEN WATER
Green water is a mass bloom of single celled algae. To culture this, put a container of dechlorinated water out in the sun and add 1 level tablespoon of lawn fertiliser for every 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. Use fresh water for freshwater species and seawater for marine species. If possible aerate or circulate the mixture. It should go green and soupy quite quickly, (usually within a couple of weeks). Then take some of the green water and put it in with the baby fishes. Enough green water should be added to the fry tank to turn it a pale green colour. You also need to keep adding green water to the fry tank to keep the green tinge in it. If the water in the rearing tank goes clear, there will not be enough algae for the fry to eat and they die.

Algae cultures can be grown indoors and regularly are in scientific labs or aquaculture facilities. You have a couple of fluorescent lights above or next to some containers of water with fertiliser in. You either add an algae starter disc, available from aquaculture supply stores (like Florida Aqua Farms) or you just leave the containers of water open to the air. Algae spores will eventually land in the water and start the cultures.

If you need to get green water quickly, you can use a clean fish sponge and wipe some green algae off the inside of an aquarium and rinse the sponge out in the culture container. Within a week the water should start to go green and soupy.

Have the light on for 24 hours a day and aerate the water and fertiliser. Use an airline without an airstone to circulate the water. Tie a small lead weight to the airline to hold it on the bottom of the container of water.

When the water goes green and soupy you start adding a liquid aquarium plant fertiliser or an iron based aquarium fertiliser to keep the culture going.

You should start a new culture regularly by making up some clean tap water and fertiliser and adding some of the green water you already have.

You can use old green water cultures to grow rotifers, daphnia & cyclops.

Make sure the green water that gets added to the fry tank has a similar temperature to the fry tank so there are no sudden temperature changes.

Replace the water you take out of the culture container with some fresh dechlorinated water.

If you put fry into a container full of green water, make sure it is aerated so the fry don't suffocate at night, and have something in the water to buffer the pH. During the day when the tub of green water gets light, it will use all the carbon dioxide (CO2) in the water and the pH will go up. At night the green water will use up all the oxygen (O2) and release CO2 and the pH will drop. Aerating the green water culture will prevent this from happening and stop or reduce pH fluctuations.

An aquarium based plant fertilizer can be used to keep the culture going after it has been running for a while. Alternatively, start a new culture every few weeks so you have several cultures going at any time. This will provide you with plenty of green water and provide a back-up should one culture crash. *NB* put a cover on the container to stop insects making it their home.

 

[connorlindeman]

my bad... it was fertilizer

 

[Rocky998]

I definitely cant do 5g of it

 

[connorlindeman]

I definitely cant do 5g of it

of course you can do less...

 

[Rocky998]

of course you can do less...

What do i add to a smaller amount then?... Like a peanut butter jar sized amount?

 

[itiwhetu]

What do i add to a smaller amount then?... Like a peanut butter jar sized amount?

I think you need to study how to use green water, you will need a lot more than a peanut butter jar, you can end up feeding that amount in a day. You will need two or three containers running side by side. One you are using the other two are maturing. You then rotate them like moving cows in paddocks but different.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

It would be interesting to know the parental bloodlines of these two Gudgeons since that can impact the survivability of offspring quite significantly

Too often a shop will sell a "matched" pair of fish (or any animal for that matter) but they don't always have or include bloodline information

If you are going to go into breeding for profit, its always better to know the bloodlines of the parents. Reason being that if by chance they came from the same batch of eggs it can potentially cause genetic issues......just as any animal and human born from the same parental bloodline (siblings and first cousins specifically) can throw up genetic deficiencies that can bring about physical deformities, proneness to disease/ill health, early death etc

It is important to mix the bloodlines whenever possible. That not only drops the incidence of genetic issues and early death but the genetic pattern and thus future breeding prospects are generally cleaner.

This is why when breeding for profit you should always have several males and several females from different bloodlines, it keeps the genetic problems to a minimum, will not dilute and weaken an existing bloodline and the offspring are usually stronger, healthier and live longer.

Due to only having the two fish, each time they spawn, that bloodline will get weaker...washed out, if you will....hence the need for multiple males and females that you know their bloodline and know not to place two of the same bloodline together. And since you probably do not know if the fish (current mum & dad) are from the same parents or from an unmatched pair, you may well discover that survivability of fry decreases with each spawning.

It is something to consider when thinking of dollar signs from your fish.....where did they come from...same bloodline or different bloodlines. As a breeder who sells their fry, you need to acknowledge and research the bloodlines otherwise it can come back to bite you if after being sold the fry die early or have a proneness to health issues.

Research before jumping into things....invaluable

 

[Rocky998]

It would be interesting to know the parental bloodlines of these two Gudgeons since that can impact the survivability of offspring quite significantly

Too often a shop will sell a "matched" pair of fish (or any animal for that matter) but they don't always have or include bloodline information

If you are going to go into breeding for profit, its always better to know the bloodlines of the parents. Reason being that if by chance they came from the same batch of eggs it can potentially cause genetic issues......just as any animal and human born from the same parental bloodline (siblings and first cousins specifically) can throw up genetic deficiencies that can bring about physical deformities, proneness to disease/ill health, early death etc

It is important to mix the bloodlines whenever possible. That not only drops the incidence of genetic issues and early death but the genetic pattern and thus future breeding prospects are generally cleaner.

This is why when breeding for profit you should always have several males and several females from different bloodlines, it keeps the genetic problems to a minimum, will not dilute and weaken an existing bloodline and the offspring are usually stronger, healthier and live longer.

Due to only having the two fish, each time they spawn, that bloodline will get weaker...washed out, if you will....hence the need for multiple males and females that you know their bloodline and know not to place two of the same bloodline together. And since you probably do not know if the fish (current mum & dad) are from the same parents or from an unmatched pair, you may well discover that survivability of fry decreases with each spawning.

It is something to consider when thinking of dollar signs from your fish.....where did they come from...same bloodline or different bloodlines. As a breeder who sells their fry, you need to acknowledge and research the bloodlines otherwise it can come back to bite you if after being sold the fry die early or have a proneness to health issues.

Research before jumping into things....invaluable

I have thought about that a lot myself... I do not know whether or not they are related but I do remember that I got them as a trio and then the 3rd one died as these ones paired off.... That one could have been a juvenille male but there is no way to know now. I do plan on upgrading the tank sometime to give the fish mire room and be able to have more gudgeons. If I could ever get my hands on a 40g breeder that would definitely be enough for 2 males and 6 females... If I knew the bloodlines that would be pretty incredible but I just don't... All I knew is that when I got them they were juvenile peacock gudgeons... I just got lucky with two pairing off...

 

[Rocky998]

I think you need to study how to use green water, you will need a lot more than a peanut butter jar, you can end up feeding that amount in a day. You will need two or three containers running side by side. One you are using the other two are maturing. You then rotate them like moving cows in paddocks but different.

Really? A whole jar in one day? I dont constantly feed it. I use a 10ml syringe to feed things like that 3-4× a day... But I dont know if I would use green water more or whatever.


I just proved they were not starving. Yesterday when I woke up there were three. The light was off for ABOUT an hour at night before I remembered to put it on low for the night to see if any die. When I turned it on, only two fry were left. Well it is morning, the light is still on and I still have those two fry. It can't be their starving. It must be something to do with the light or a creature that lurks in the dark...