What Do People Think

[Miss Wiggle]

Before I start I want to say this is in no way a criticism of rdd's fishless cycling article and not intended to replace it. I think it's concise and say's everything it needs to for the average beginner, it's not so complicated and technical so as to confuse people or scare them off a fishless cycle but tells you all the basics.

I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to combine our wisdom and create a fishless cycle - fine tuning and troubleshooting thread, intended as a bit of further reading for beginners when they're starting out with a fishless cycle.

Some of the things I thought we could cover would be

Testing, recording results and reporting them
pH crashes, how to avoid them and treat them
Some more detailed info about the bacteria we are culturing
Optimum conditions for the bacteria
Water changes during cycling
Plants in the tank during a cycle
Dropping the ammonia down to 2/3ppm once your into the second phase to reduce nitrite (can't think of a nice snappy title for this!)
Qualification week
How to know when the cycle is done

Sure there's more things that we could get in there.

What do you guys think, overkill or useful?

 

[stang1]

I think it's a great idea.
Many beginners struggle to get their head around the cycling process, I was one of them!
I like the idea of having a more detailed topic with the above mentioned.

P.S. I echo Miss Wiggle when I say that Rdd's article is great.

 

[Gilli]

I think this is a wonderful idea Miss W! I like many others knew nothing when i started and I am eternally grateful for all the help I have and do receive on this forum Go for it!

 

[backtotropical]

Great idea MW!

I'd certainly enjoy having an input to that kind of thread, as I know many others would.

We could title it 'Advanced Fishless Cycling', or 'Fishless Cycling - A Troubleshooting Guide'.

Get typing then...........

BTT

 

[Miss Wiggle]

happy to start it off

If anyone has any particular sections they'd like to contribute then be my guest, just post it up here so we don't get two people working on the same thing.

the things I'm not so good at - and therefore would like someone else to do - would be a bit about pH and how to avoid and treat crashes and a bit more technical stuff about the bacteria species.

If anyone can think of anything else that should be covered then by all means pop them up here.

 

[waterdrop]

My first thought when I started reading this was... "or we could see if rdd wanted to incorporate one or two of the most important items" ...

But then, re-reading your very complete list, it does seem very enticing to think about a second article to separate out these details without the danger of over-complicating the original article. We all know its a trade-off of wanting the main article to be simple enough that beginners will actually read it and use it and I think rdd has accomplished that.

Probably me being among the main perpetrators of overkill, I like all the things on the list... But if I had to pick the single thing in the list that happens the most or is the most important it would have to be the pH crash subject.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah, my thought is to leave rdd's article as it is. fishless cycling can sound really confusing to beginners and especially if they've got the fish shop on one shoulder saying 'oh just put some danio's in and it'll be fine' or offering magic bacteria supplements. If we make the initial article any more complicated then you risk scaring people off and getting them into doing fish-in cycles.

That's why I think a seperate article would be better, then it's not compulsory, if people are finding the basic process complicated enough as it is then they can just read that and go for it, it'll probably work just fine but if they do come across something like a pH crash they can refer to this for more help. But for the people who are fairly scientifically minded, into their research and wanting to absorb everything on the topic before they start they can launch straight into this and use it as a springboard for topics to research and things to look at for their tank.

I agree though that pH crash would be the most important thing and if people decide we should tag onto rdd's article then I'd suggest only including that in there.

and of course i do realise that i do tend to write a lot and go overboard so if you think there's things we don't need to cover then shout up there as well!

 

[Rubyuk]

Great idea Miss W

You know that i'd benefit from it

Dont forget to mention the word patience

 

[Miss Wiggle]

oh yes, and if we can do it all in the form of haiku!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

OK here's a go at a first bit - comments etc.....?

Testing, Recording and Reporting

Testing

It is important to use a good quality test kit, ones with liquid reagents are considered most accurate and easy to use. A lot of people on here use the API Fresh Water Master Test Kit, the Nutrafin Mini Master Test Kit is also recommended.

Do remember though that we are not dealing with lab grade equipment here, there is plenty of scope for inaccuracy and errors, so if you ever get a reading that is not what you expected then you should do another test to confirm/deny it.

The nitrate tests are particularly dodgy and results should be taken as indicative rather than accurate, for the API kit you must make sure you follow the instructions to the letter, the second reagent is prone to clumping up in the bottom of the bottle and must be mixed up properly before use.

The colour charts can also be hard to read and affected by different light conditions, if possible try to read them under natural light in a nice white room. Now a lot of people don’t have a pure white room with massive windows available to them so just do the best you can, I’ve found standing at my front door and looking at the tests with natural light behind them enables me to read the colours best.

Always try to take your test readings in the same place to mitigate the differences caused by different light conditions or different coloured rooms.

I know this doesn’t paint a brilliant picture of our beloved tests kits, however they are the best that most of us have available to us and even with their faults they are invaluable and the best 20 quid a fishkeeper can spend!

Recording

The first thing to be aware of is that every cycle is different, if you provide us with accurate information about your own personal circumstances then we’ll be much better placed to help you. So start up a log book for your fishless cycle and record your daily results and actions then this will be of enormous benefit to you and everyone trying to help you down the line if anything does go wrong.

Start your log book with details of the tank set up, the size, the make and model of filter and an explanation of how you set the tank up.

Before you start your cycle test your tap water, you should take a sample and leave it around an hour and then test it. This provides a very useful bassline and reference point for any future problems. Some people do have some ammonia or nitrite in their tap water so don’t panic if you do, but do let us know as there are things you can do to mitigate these effects. Nitrate often comes out of the tap as high as 40ppm so again don’t panic if it’s there.

Then each day record the time of your first test what the results were, anything done to the tank like ammonia added or a water change carried out. If you are doing more tests through the day then record the time and the results.

Reporting

If you like you can start up a thread with the log of your fishless cycle, update it with your results every few days and we’ll keep an eye on your progress and let you know if there’s anything you need to do.

If you can keep your results in the following format then it makes things much easier for us to follow. You have to remember at any time there may be 10-15 people on the forum going through a fishless cycle and reporting their results, sometimes we get people and tanks muddled up if you’re not clear!

Day X – Fishless Cycle on X litre tank

Test 1 – Time of test
pH – X
Ammonia – X
Nitrite – X
Nitrate – X

Details of action on the tank, for example ‘Ammonia topped up to 5ppm’

Test 2 – Time of test (usually 12 hrs later)
Ph – X
Ammonia – X
Nitrite – X
Nitrate – X

Details of action on the tank

If you don’t choose to start up a thread at the start of your cycle with your log in and want some help down the line then post up the full series of tests results if you can.

A trend of a number of tests over a few days will always be more useful to us than a ‘snapshot’ of a single test.

 

[rabbut]

Good so far I would argue that some nitrate test kits are reasonably accurate though. The Tetra test kit is usualy only upto 5ppm off in the lower regions (upto 50ish ppm), when compaired to lab grade gear (my dad used to test water for the environment agency, so had full access to lab grade test gear. Unfortunately they have now moved onto soil samples....), but I've only done comparisons with this one kit All the important points about lighting and following test kit instructions are there, and re-testing for anomalies, more than one data point being useful for help posts e.t.c

If you like, I can have a go at pH crashes later? It will possibly be a few days off though, so I'm not bothered if someone else wants to chip that in

Great idea for support. Just an idea, could it be made general, to cover fish-in cycle issues also, for things that can be transfered to both?

All the best
Rabbut

 

[OldMan47]

When it comes to adding much more detail, I am concerned about the new fish keeper. It seems that some of them, maybe most, already fret about things that are no big deal. If you ask them to measure too many things and give them a target value that is too narrow, many people will become discouraged. I would almost rather take on the questions as they arise than run off all the new folks by making the process look insurmountable. Just my opinion but it is how I see too much information.

 

[backtotropical]

I absolutely see your point OldMan, but I do think that Miss Wiggle's idea is good and would benefit the forum.

Maybe we could get around the problems you are foreseeing by giving the article a title such as 'Fishless Cycling for the advanced cycler' or such like? In essence, make it clear that you should follow RDD's article until you are comfortable with the process, and only then should you consider the other points.

I feel it would be a shame not to have such useful information as a useable resource, just because it may put a few people off. That problem should be fairly easily overcome.

BTT

 

[waterdrop]

Also, there is the major question of structure. It might be that a series of individual detailed write-ups of each individual topic MW brings up would then allow is to use -links- to put them into use both from beginner articles or from our own posts when we are discussing specific topics within help threads.

Not having one long article full of detail things would help in the long run I would think but I do anticipate that our "post/thread" format, the only one really available to us, will not take to this very well!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I think it would be best if we could get an 'advanced' section in here and then put up seperate topics for each bit.