Weird 1cm Long Leeches In The Tank?

DAVEGWYNN

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Hi all,

First post on this forum, wondered if anyone could help me identify a random creature in the tank.

Background:

Tank is a 220L community tropical job, 8 months old but with the water and bits from a 12 year old 100L that started leaking. pH 7.5, usual temperature 25C, never any abnormal levels of nitrates/ammonia (1/3 water change once a week). Just recovering from heat (but no salt) treatment to get rid of ich (white spot). Tank has been at 30C for two weeks.

The beastie:

Moved a large piece of bogwood, and noticed living beneath it four 1cm long soft bodied and very stretchy creatures. Contract into a ball of clear looking slime (a bit like snail egg masses) but can stretch out to more than a cm with a searching 'nose'. They look a lot like some kind of leech to me, but I have never heard of such a thing..

Anyone any idea? I am a little worried about leaving these things in there if they are any danger to the fish, but equally don't want to boil them alive with the wood to get rid of them if they are harmless. Oh, and one seems to be full of yellow spherical masses. I guess eggs. This might be a bad thing..

Cheers,

Dave
 
You should definately get some pics up here if you can, would be very helpful in ID'ing them- leaches are definately not unheard of in aquariums, but there are a whole host of aquatic worms which can end up in tanks when it comes down to it. Did you use any meds when you were doing the heat treatment for the whitespot in your tank?
 
You should definately get some pics up here if you can, would be very helpful in ID'ing them- leaches are definately not unheard of in aquariums, but there are a whole host of aquatic worms which can end up in tanks when it comes down to it. Did you use any meds when you were doing the heat treatment for the whitespot in your tank?

Right, took a quick pic:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=330939971&size=l

No, didn't use any meds whilst banishing the whitespot - have an elephant nose fish and have heard they are quite sensitive to meds.

Can take more pics if needed. The creature reminds me a lot of the larvae of true flies, in size and morphology, but all the ones I've come across that look like this have been terrestrial.
 
You should definately get some pics up here if you can, would be very helpful in ID'ing them- leaches are definately not unheard of in aquariums, but there are a whole host of aquatic worms which can end up in tanks when it comes down to it. Did you use any meds when you were doing the heat treatment for the whitespot in your tank?

Right, took a quick pic:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=330939971&size=l

No, didn't use any meds whilst banishing the whitespot - have an elephant nose fish and have heard they are quite sensitive to meds.

Can take more pics if needed. The creature reminds me a lot of the larvae of true flies, in size and morphology, but all the ones I've come across that look like this have been terrestrial.

I have no idea what they are for now, but they don't look like leaches. Have you fish paid any interest in them at all (like trying to eat them)?

With the whitespot med thing- yes it is true elephant nose fish cannot handle anti whitespot or general anti parasitic meds because these meds often contain copper in them, which the elephant nose fish cannot handle.
On the other hand though, the whitespot will still be present in your tank- it is imposible to detroy it from heat treatment alone, all the heat treatment does its speed up its parasitic life cycle until the whitespot parasites go back to their free swimming stage in the water, where they can be killed off by meds. If you don't kill off the parasites while they are swimming about, it is highly likely it will breed again and return back to infest your fish.
Many people assume they have got rid of the parasite when thye no longer see the characteristic white spots on their fish any longer, but in reality it is still present in the tank just as much as it ever has been, it is just grown into its free swimming stage. This is why a lot of people get whitespot coming back to their tank after they have seemingly eradicated it.

I would set up a separate decent sized tank and fishless cycle it or clone some filter media and put the elephant nose fish in this separate tank once the water quality is stable so you can properly treat your fish in your main community tank- if the elephant nose fish gets whitespot there's not much you can really do about it (i'm not sure is elephant nose fish can tolerate salt treatment with marine salt, which would be the only non-chemical way to destroy the parasite; only some fish can tolerate salt treatment though).
This is one of the many issues of keeping elephant nose fish- if they get sick or deseased, there's often nothing you can do to save them (for example, if the fish got internal parasites, it would be doomed). Its why a lot of people keep them alone or just with their own kind to help minimise desease or parasite outbreaks in the aquarium.
 
I still think it may be a young fish leech of some description, not all leeches are of the familiar deep brown and very clearly segmented variety :)

it reminds me of this but in a more elongated stance;
leech-00.jpg


I think your one does seem to have a sucker on the end to the left
 
Tokis-Phoenix:

I went out this afternoon and bought myself a smaller tank to use for quarantine. Definately sound advice, thanks. It didn't seem to matter as much with the smaller tank I ran for years, if the worst came to the worst then starting from scratch wouldn't have been too much in the way of cash or trouble. Am kicking myself, tank was fine for eight months, always stocking with fish from my excellent, if expensive LFS. Bought a single bristlenose cat from the local 'Pets at Home' (was seduced by the new and apparently disease free system installed) and have paid dearly.
I had read that the free swimming stages of the protozoan were susceptible to high temperatures, apart from the odd genotypes that were heat resistant - is that not the case? The tank is dropping back to 24C now anyhow, keeping it at 30 for a fortnight hasn't done any good to the other inhabitants. It's interesting, if somewhat heartbreaking, to see the negative effect of high temps on the immune systems of all the other fish. I'll have to wait a while for the new tank to settle anyhow, and just keep fingers crossed that the whitespot is gone. I perhaps should have read more about the elephant nose before buying him. Having said that - is a wonderful weird fish. What treatment would you recommend if it comes back, or are all over the counter ones the same?


Saedcantas:

That looks really very similar. I might take one out and head to work to get a closer image - I've got a dissection microscope rig that can take decent pics. I take it that the leech is going to be bad news whatever it seems to be. I've noticed some irritation in the tank recently, but put it down to whitespot. Could the leeches be causing damage to the fish (missing scales etc)?
I'll go and take the ones I can find out of the tank.

Thanks for the quick response guys, excellent forum!
 
They do look like normal leeches, whenever I go fishing I always find some of these on the fins. If you choose to remove a leech from the fish, then don't pull on it, just cut a piece of garlic in half and rub it on the leech, then it will come off, don't forget to do this in a different container with some of the tank water in it.
 
Awesome, thanks. I'll kill all of them I can find Nasty little blighters.
 
Tokis-Phoenix:

I went out this afternoon and bought myself a smaller tank to use for quarantine. Definately sound advice, thanks. It didn't seem to matter as much with the smaller tank I ran for years, if the worst came to the worst then starting from scratch wouldn't have been too much in the way of cash or trouble. Am kicking myself, tank was fine for eight months, always stocking with fish from my excellent, if expensive LFS. Bought a single bristlenose cat from the local 'Pets at Home' (was seduced by the new and apparently disease free system installed) and have paid dearly.
I had read that the free swimming stages of the protozoan were susceptible to high temperatures, apart from the odd genotypes that were heat resistant - is that not the case? The tank is dropping back to 24C now anyhow, keeping it at 30 for a fortnight hasn't done any good to the other inhabitants. It's interesting, if somewhat heartbreaking, to see the negative effect of high temps on the immune systems of all the other fish. I'll have to wait a while for the new tank to settle anyhow, and just keep fingers crossed that the whitespot is gone. I perhaps should have read more about the elephant nose before buying him. Having said that - is a wonderful weird fish. What treatment would you recommend if it comes back, or are all over the counter ones the same?


For treating the fish in your main tank, "Anti Whitespot" by Interpet is a good treatment- if you have any carbon sponge (the rough black sponge) in your filter though you should remove it though as this sponge will remove any meds you put in the water.
Elephant nose fish are very sensitive to water quality conditions, so stabilising the tanks water quality and ecosystem is essential.
Cloning the filters bacteria from the filter in your main tank will be the easiest way to do this- simply set the new tanks filter in your current tank running alongside your original filter for a week. After one weeks time the filters sponge should be established with the essential bacteria from your old one (there is bacteria in your filter sponge that breaks down ammonia into nitrites and then into nitrates- it is important to have this bacteria in your filter sponge as otherwise the tank will suffer bad and unstable water quality problems). After you have done this, simply put it in the new tank and and move the elephant nose fish in there as you do- make sure not to keep the new filter turned off for too long or have it running in an empty tank as otherwise you'll start to lose the newly established bacteria in it.

Once the elephant nose fish is happily set up in its new tank wit newly established filter, test the water a lot over the next week for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates just to make sure there are no problems- the tank should have 0 ammonia and nitrites, but should have between 1 and 40 nitrates.
Once this is acheived, set about treating your main tanks fish with the interpet med- treating the tank for around 3 weeks would be good as this should definately kill the parasite during this time, but still try to avoid buying anymore fish for at least a further two weeks after this just to be on the safe side. Adding some extra filtration or a bubble stone would be good to help increase oxygen levels in the tank as this will make the fish feel more comfortable while they are being treated as whitespot meds are pretty strong stuff.

I don't think there's anything that can treat elephant nose fish for parasites though of any sort. If the elephant nose fish does start to show whitespot or any other sort of parasite infection (gill flukes, fish lices, internal parasites etc) and looks like it is struggling badly with the condition, then a course of salt treatment like salt bathing would be the only thing i'd advise. Copper is lethal to elephant nose fish (copper is generally found in all chemical based anti parasitic meds), but salt could be ok (need someone to help give more info on this).

For now though, just make sure the water quality is stable in the new tank and try to make sure that the elephant nose fish is as comfortable as posible. A fine sand substrate (like fine silica sand) is best with lots of cover/hiding places like pipes, caves, tunnels etc. This fish is primarily nocturnal, so there is no need for strong lighting in the tank- you will see the fish out and about a lot more if you invest in some very weak lighting like moonlight effect lighting.
Elephant nose fish detect their food via tiny electrical signals, thus they find it very difficult to recognise dead food which does not give off any signals. A diet of live worms is good, from live tubifex, bloodworms, blackworms etc- in the wild these fish would use their electrical signals to detect worms living in the mud at the bottom of lakes or rivers, so live food and fine, soft substrate is very important for these fish. The more you invest into keeping the fish properly and happily, the healthier it will be and the longer it will live :good: .
Not many people can keep these fish alive for very long, however it is not imposible at all to do so if you research their needs properly and invest the time and care they need :good: .
See here for more info on these fish;

http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gnathonemus_petersii.html
 
You can treat ich fine with raised temp and just aquarium salt, or kosher/table salt. You can use up to 2 tbsp per US gallon with many common tropical fish. I've even done it with cories and clown loaches (very ich prone) in the tank who are supposed to be really intolerant of salt and they were just fine.

From how your elephant nose sounds though I wouldn't use it with that type or other types say like angels or discus....so I think your quarantining the noser is the right thing to do.

Just thought I would let you know though that salt treatment is an alternative you could TRY for the elephant nose if HE TOO happens to develop ich. I wouldn't just let it die of ich.
 
Thanks for the info - the main tank has 50kg of soft sand as substrate (I've got a number of bottom feeding fish which like to bury themselves in rather worrying poses) and it is fairly quiet and heavily planted. Had to put two new large chunks of bogwood in to give the elephant nose somewhere quiet enough to hide, but he seems happy enough. Had him about six months, and apart from occasional spats with an ancient and cranky golden sucking loach, he seems pretty happy. Gets live bloodworm/glassworm once a week, frozen once a day and occasional larger (D. magna) daphnia from a freshwater system in the lab, when we have spares.
I'll pick up some meds tomorrow and will isolate the elephant nose if I see any sign of ich back in the tank. Entertaingly the parents bought me the identical (down to filter and heater) quarantine set up as a random christmas present, two days after I picked mine up.

Two quarantine tanks - going to be the safest setup ever..
 

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