Wanting To Upgrade

[Villy Valley]

I seem to have caught the fish keeping virus. I bought the small tank for my son and now I am more interested than him

I have a 28ltr tank which I know, I hear you all shouting "far too small for the number of fish in it" Ok I do not want to get rid of the fish and so I want to upgrade so that I can keep them and get more. I have one black moor, and 2 other flutter fancy fish, 3 cloud mm and a plec. Yes, yes in the 28 ltr tank ) I have a Fluval filter. I have been been hovering the bottom of the tank to do a 20% water change twice a week and clean the filter once a fortnight. I am happy with this routine and not finding it a problem I enjoy looking after them. The lfs did not advise me I was overstocking - it is this site that have advised me. What size tank do you recommend and how do I transfer the current fish into the tank

Thanks

Villy Valley

 

[Bloo]

Well done for wanting to upgrade and giving them a nice home they will feel comfortable in

But not knowing what "flutter fish" is and exactly what type of plec, it's impossible to advise you.

Are the flutter fish a type of goldfish ? Is the plec a common plec ?

Edit: and just because the shop didn't tell you there's a problem, doesn't mean there isn't. It's a cut throat industry with low margins and unfortunately there are lots of shops that will sell you just about anything to make money. That's why TFF is so great, because with 15,000 + members, you know you're going to get more than just one person's opinion

 

[england]

i started out with a coldwater tank now ive got 3 tanks.....see my info page, now my sisters got 3 aswell<my fault.....all i can say is go for it

 

[Villy Valley]

Well done for wanting to upgrade and giving them a nice home they will feel comfortable in

But not knowing what "flutter fish" is and exactly what type of plec, it's impossible to advise you.

Are the flutter fish a type of goldfish ? Is the plec a common plec ?


I don't know how to post pictures on here and so I have removed the avatar of my black moor and put in the flutter fish. He is a goldfish with a fancy tail that mean he doesn't swim like a torpedo like normal goldfish but tend to wiggle and flutter as the swim.

I hope this pidture helps. The other fish is the same but bright orange. The plec is almost black all over but has dots all over it which I would say are slightly yellow in colour. Does that help identify it?

Villy

 

[Bloo]

Thanks that definitely helps to identify the fancy goldfish

Now just for the plec....

Just it look something like any of these ?

 

[Villy Valley]

Hi

Picture no. 1 is the closest match but ours is a baby one only about 1-2 inches in length and so the patten is much tighter. It is more yellow with black patches/dots over it. Spends most of its time upside down in the barrel but it is stuck to side of glass at the moment. It very rarely lifts its dorsal so it doesn't look much like your picture in that sense.

Does this help to identify it.

Villy

 

[Bloo]

That certainly helps Villy. So you have 3 fancy goldfish, 3 wcmm and a common pleco (there are a number of plecs falling into the common catagory, but you can expect him to reach at least 1ft in length fairly soon - they are fast growers !) I'm sure you've heard about stunting of internal organs and all that before, so unless you can really afford the proper housing it needs, you will have to rehome it I'm afraid

If you do that, you can get away with a 50 gallon tank (something like a Juwel Rio180). I know it's not what you might want to hear, but seeing you asked....

You could perhaps add 3 more wcmm's to make a nice looking group. And what about some of these cute little chaps ? They would fit in perfectly in and are really fun to watch. They go under many common names such as "Hillstream Loach / (Chinese) Butterfly Fish / Borneo Sucker" etc.....

For more info on them and pictures, see here & here.

Would be nice if others could give their opinions too - especially the coldwater experts.

 

[black angel]

Bloo has given you some great advice

6 gallons Im afraid isnt going to do your fish any favours for much longer i'm afraid. One fantail *flutter fish* needs at a minimum 10 gallons to grow healthily and thats until it reaches around 3 inches in body length before needing to upgrade. if theya re kept where they are for much longer then you run the risk of stunting them which makes them more susceptible to diseases and you will find that the water quality will keep getting harder to maintain and will need constant attention to keep ammonia and nitrites under control.

So for all your fish then you are looking at 30 gallons minimum for the three fancy tailed and including the plec you can easily add on another 20 gallons as all fish grow and the more they grow the more waste they emit.

Filtration as well is going to have to get better and you will eventually need a filter that can hold a lot of biological media such as an external and an internal as well.
Test kits are really important to keep an eye on ammonia and nitrites essentially but also knowing ph, nitrates, gh and kh would help as well.

If you do want to upgrade to an appropriate sized tank then I'm afraid 50 gallons will be the least you can put them in. Of course anything is better than the 6 gallons they are in now but anything smaller than the 50 will need upgrading each year.
If you can re home the plec and get the hillstream loaches bloo has suggested then you can get away with a 30 gallon tank with an external filter and a fluval 3+ for inside the tank for a couple of years.

Im afraid goldies are more expensive to keep properly as they can potentially grow to over 8 inches in length.

Have you tested your water recently for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph?

 

[Villy Valley]

Bloozoo

That last picture you put up is my fish - so is mine not a plec....... it is a loach? It came out of tank that said Plec on the side - but it most certainly looks like that last picture you just put up. So how big will that one grow? )


I do test for nitrites with a kit that I have and the level is fine. I don't check for anything else. The tank is very stable now - I did have problems in the beginning with deaths..... but none recently. The last death wasn't down to bad water stats it was my black moor that died swallowing a stone I now have a new one which is fine and so it the orange flutter goldfish. I do hear you say the tank is too small and I know I need to upgrade - I quite fancy a larger tank anyway - I have been out this morning to look at the prices Maybe I could look around for a second hand one somewhere.

Villy

Have just read the link for the Hillstream Loach that Boozoo gave and it most certainly sounds like mine. We too watch its heartbeat through the glass and see the stomach contents moving! It is the fastest mover in the tank when it decides to move! When my son gets in I will get him to take a picture of it - if it isn't hiding again and post it on here - that way someone will be able to tell me for sure what it is.

Villy

 

[Bloo]

Well that's some really good news ! You can keep your little loach quite happily - they really don't grow much more than 2.5" or so. They're certainly not plecs and closer to a loach - but not quite a loach either

So a 30 Gallon tank will do very nicely - something like a Juwel Rio 125 would be great. You can often pick up some fantastic bargains on these tanks on eBay.

Good luck

Edit: Here on eBay is even a huge 56 US gallon tank currently on for £10 not too far from you.

 

[Villy Valley]

Well spotted Bloozoo on Ebay....... I am watching that closely now. It has had 143 views but no bids yets. Christchurch isn't far from me and I would be more than will to go and get it. I will wait until the day before I place any bids and be online for the ending!!!

I guess that one would be big enough for me to add a couple of extra fish too

Don't tell anyone else that you have seen it B)

Villy

 

[black angel]

Can i just say that deep tanks arent much use for goldies. They need length of tank rather than height and for the gallonage a 4 foot long tank would offer better oxygen levels.

 

[Villy Valley]

Angel

Are you saying that tank would be too deep? The fish I have tend to flutter up and down rather than along - but I bow to your superior knowledge as I am a beginner....Should I not bother with it. (or have you got your eye on it for yourself)

Villy


Is the said tank probably a tropical fish tank then?

 

[black angel]

lol, no I dont want the tank. Its great for tropicals yes but goldies need the tank to be longer for better oxygen transfer at the surface.
I dont think its a good idea personally and suggest a longer tank then you can get another fish or 2 easily.

 

[Bloo]

Yeah - probably best suited to Angelfish and such like but just keep an eye on eBay - you can do and advanced search where you search according to your postcode.

Good luck