Using multiple medications in a quarantine tank?

[rebe]

Hi again!
My aquarium seems to be doing well. Feels like the day I'll actually have fish is getting closer. Ammonia from aqua soil and hitchhiking bladder snail poop started my planted/silent cycle. I had ammonia and high nitrite for 15 days and now I've gotten 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite and some nitrates for the last 3 days. So I'm going to test the cycle/ build up the cycle with home made ammonia solution. I like to have stuff ready in advance so I've been gathering stuff and information for when it's time to order my first ''round'' of fish.

I've been finding the Aquarium Co-op really good for blogs and videos on various subjects so I am planning (so far) to follow their fish quarantine guide. ( https/www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/quarantine-tank )

I'm in rural Ireland, so there aren't as many options for aquarium supplies without crazy tax and shipping. So I haven't been able to get the recommended "trio of quarantine medications". I have got the closest thing that was available to me, but I'm wondering:

Can I use the three of these at the same time, or will I need to use them separately and change the quarantine tank water between each one?

Interpet - Anti Parasite, Slime & Velvet Plus - 100ml

Anti Parasite, Slime & Velvet Plus – 100ml | Eradicates flukes and protozoa. Includes market leading breakthrough formulas for the best results.

interpet.co.uk

Interpet - Anti Fungus & Finrot Plus - 100ml

Anti Fungus & Finrot Plus – 100ml | Cures fungus, mouthrot and finrot. Includes market leading breakthrough formulas for the best results.

interpet.co.uk

Interpet - Anti Internal Bacteria Plus - 100ml

Anti Internal Bacteria Plus – 100ml | Treat systemic bacteria infections. Includes market leading breakthrough formulas for the best results.

interpet.co.uk

Anti Parasite+ Composition:
- Copper EDTA 6636mg/100ml
- Formaldehyde 1000mg/100ml
- Quinine bisulfate 746mg/100ml
- Benzalkonium chloride 200mg/100ml
(1ml for 5 Litres)

Anti Internal Bacteria+ Composition:
- Formaldehyde 1000mg/100ml
- Bronopol 523mg/100ml
- Benzalkonium chloride 250mg/100ml
(1ml for 10 Litres)

Anti Fungus & Finrot+ Composition:
-Phenoxyethanol 40000mg/100ml
(1ml for 5 Litres)

The Interpet website doesn't recommend using "more than two at the same time", but I've read/heard about people using combinations of different brands. What are your thoughts?

Ps. I already have these three so I'd prefer to use these over ordering different recommended ones.

 

[GaryE]

I would never use aquarium co-op's suggestions there. No meds unless you see something to medicate.

BTW, I don't sell meds - they do. I have worked in the aquarium business and kept and bred fish for well over 50 years. Quarantine is for watching the fish in case of illness, not for using meds on them on a blind guess.

 

[Colin_T]

Never mix medications.

Never use medications unless you know what the problem is.

The first 2 medications contain similar ingredients.

 

[rebe]

Never mix medications.

Never use medications unless you know what the problem is.

The first 2 medications contain similar ingredients.

I would never use aquarium co-op's suggestions there. No meds unless you see something to medicate.

BTW, I don't sell meds - they do. I have worked in the aquarium business and kept and bred fish for well over 50 years. Quarantine is for watching the fish in case of illness, not for using meds on them on a blind guess.

Should I not quarantine new fish then? Or just not medicate them?
When I get my first fish, should I just add them to the actual main tank straight away?
(After acclimating them of course).

 

[Byron]

I certainly agree with Colin and Gary--never, never, never use any medication unless you know what the disease is and the medication is the safest and most effective for that issue. Sometimes we do have to guess at what a problem is, but seek advice from members here who know fish ailments. Additives to the tank water get inside the fish, and can cause additional stress. Clean water is often the best preventative, along with proper stocking (species, numbers, compatibility, etc.).

Edit. You posted as I was typing. Yes, quarantine in a tank that replicates the conditions in the display tank the fish will be going into. Floating plants, sand substrate, some decor for refuge. Fish will settle much faster with less likelihood of developing problems. Stress is the cause of more than 90% of aquarium fish disease/health issues, so avoiding stress is key.

 

[rebe]

I certainly agree with Colin and Gary--never, never, never use any medication unless you know what the disease is and the medication is the safest and most effective for that issue. Sometimes we do have to guess at what a problem is, but seek advice from members here who know fish ailments. Additives to the tank water get inside the fish, and can cause additional stress. Clean water is often the best preventative, along with proper stocking (species, numbers, compatibility, etc.).

Thank you, I'll definitly follow your advice then. It feels like there is so much conflicting information out there.
I think I'll stick to asking you guys !

 

[GaryE]

I quarantine all new fish for several weeks. I don't medicate unless I see something. That med would be good for Ich, though using copper sometimes backfires on the non fish in the tank. It's a poison for invertebrates, which fish external parasites tend to be.

I don't think meds have anything to do with QT. The Aquarium Co-op guy swears by medicating all his fish upon arrival, and a lot of people throw meds at their fish. I think it's harmful, partly because we have really primitive treatments for our fish, and the meds are best used when the harm they cause is outweighed by the harm caused by what you're treating. Ich meds or salt are harsh chemicals, but Ich is a killer parasite, so if I see it, in go the treatments. But only if I see it.

 

[AlexT]

Thank you, I'll definitly follow your advice then. It feels like there is so much conflicting information out there.
I think I'll stick to asking you guys !

Yes! Do that.

I used to think like you rebe, in that it was best to "medicate" just to be sure, but it's not, but a big YES YES YES to quarantine. I'd go as far to say you MUST quarantine, because look how much effort, time, and thought you are putting into everything! It's heart breaking when you put new fish in and a few days later you have deaths, Ich, or some other problem. Very, very stressful. There is no 100% guarantee to avoiding fish parasites, fungus, and bacterial infection, but quarantine reduces your risks.

The only exception for me is at the beginning when you buy your first lot of fish, I normally put them straight in the tank, but after that...... no way I put a fish from the LFS, or any fish, straight into my set up!!! Also, if my set up was planted, I would probably still quarantine the first lot of fish, because some meds I think can harm plants.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am one who does Q a lot differently than in that site. I used to buy fish directly from the wild, from farms and from breeders. Depending on the source of the fish I Q from between 30 and 90 days. Wild imports get 90, tank raised get 30 and farmed depends upon which one and where it is located. Those time represent consecutive days without any issues. If I have to treat, then the Q periods ends when either the fish dies or else that number of healthy days after it is cured.

I keep a lot of meds on hand because I have a lot of tanks and fish. But I do not get new fish very often any more. I am more likely to need a Hospital (H than a Q tank.

I prefer to have a cycled filter to put into a Q tank. I also want some decor and even substrate. I do not use live plants that I am not willing possibly to have to throw out. Basically, as much as possible that goes into a Q or an H tank much be capable of being bleached and therefore reused. But most things that infect fish need to be in water. So drying things completely should kill most nasties.

I prefer to use a bit of sand rather than bare bottom in a Q tank. An H tank I will leave bare bottom. In both tanks I am able to observe ppop and uneaten food.

I also prefer a cycled filter in an H tank. I am prepared to lose the cycle due to using certain meds or if I know I will have to use such meds before setting up the tank. In such cases I wont use a cycled filter. I then replace filtration with daily or every other day 50% water changes. This means any removed water dosed meds must be added back with the new water.

Both Q and H tanks are heated, have lids and may have added air if needed. I normally have a bottle of Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria in my fridge jik I need to cycle a tank rather than move filters or seeding from other established tanks. Finally, I may have a light on the tank for when I need to be able to see well. But, with no live plants ambient room light is usually enough for the tank.

 

[GaryE]

I am one who does Q a lot differently than in that site. I used to buy fish directly from the wild, from farms and from breeders. Depending on the source of the fish I Q from between 30 and 90 days. Wild imports get 90, tank raised get 30 and farmed depends upon which one and where it is located. Those time represent consecutive days without any issues. If I have to treat, then the Q periods ends when either the fish dies or else that number of healthy days after it is cured.

My comment here won't help the original poster, who is new and has a small set up.

I do something similar to @TwoTankAmin . I get mostly wild caughts, and if they go into a community, they get 3-4 weeks in QT. Home raised if I know the breeder, the same.

I never combine farmed with wild caught, because farmed fish are plague carriers. And most of the time, my QT is a single species tank that the new fish will live out their lives in - with cycled filtration and the addition of plants as the danger period passes. I like single species tanks, since I like breeding my fish.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Farmed fish are not all plague carriers. Bellenz Farm in Indonesia raises healthy fish. I know because in early 2020 along with a partner we imported $14k worth of mostly zebra plecos bred by Bellenz. We recieved 324 zebras and 26 P. compta. They were individually bagged and all arrived alive. 25 of the larger zebras were for me personally. All were healthy and disease free. I kept 15 and they are currently spawning.

I worked with another person who imported and I could piggy back their orders. She knew which fish to get from which sources which were in Asia and S. America. The one place from which we/she did not buy fish was the USA.

The biggest issue with imported v.s tank raised or farmed is the immune system of the fish. The problems in the wild are usually different than those in a captive system. As a result, the immunities of the fish are based on the things with which they are normally challenged. Wild fish often have no immunity to the more common tank ailments while domestically farmed or tank raised fish lack defenses against some of the "wild" diseases. Of course a number of the diseases/parasites/worms are common to both.

I do both species tanks for breeding and growout and then planted communities. The community tanks are most definitely not species tanks. Nor do they necessarily contain only wild or tank raised fish- often it is a mix. I almost never buy fish from retail stores.

 

[rebe]

Thank you for your replies!
I have created a quarantine tank with what I had on hand, but I'm concerned that it may be too small or the equipment is incorrect.
It's only a plastic tub with my spare heater and filter, and a digital thermometer. I used leftover aquarium sand from my actual tank and I have a bunch of plastic aquarium plants arriving on Tuesday from Amazon.

I used the bar attachment to break up the flow of the filter, and I directed the flow at the side of the tub to reduce the flow because of the kinetic energy. So I'm hoping that the filter isn't to strong, as it's ment to be a back up for my 29 gallon.

I don't know the exact dimensions of the tub, but the amount of water in the tub/tank is about 5.2 Gallons or 20 litres.
In an ideal world I'd have a bigger tank that was actually a glass or plastic aquarium with equipment of a better size. But I physically don't have space in my room or money to spend on a temporary tank as I'm a full time student. Don't get me wrong, I have enough money to properly care for my future fish but I don't want to spend a lot of money on something I'll use for only a month or however long I am using it for.

While this tank/tub is only temporary, I will get something else if you guys don't think that it's a good idea. I think a bigger cube shaped tank would fit on the same surface if needed.

Currently I'm thinking of getting glowlight rasboras for my first fish. (Trigonostigma hengeli).
So there would only be 3, maybe 5 in the quarantine tank at the most. As they are the first set of fish for my tank. Though I think I remember reading in another thread to get the full school of fish, but on the silent/planted cycle part of the 'cycling your tank' resource it says 1-3 ?

Not 100% sure how to proceed

Also paranoid that the heater will melt the plastic of the tub lol

 

[AlexT]

You could lose some or all the gravel which might give you an extra litre or so of water space. I hate bare bottom tanks but if you are not QT any fish like Corydoras it might not be worth having substrate. Or maybe a really thin layer?

The key is keeping the filter bacteria good to go/mature.

I like it! Yes, you are limited by size but it could still be useful. I had similar challenges with an oversized filter/powerhead and trying not to turn the QT tank into a jacuzzi

 

[rebe]

You could lose some or all the gravel which might give you an extra litre or so of water space. I hate bare bottom tanks but if you are not QT any fish like Corydoras it might not be worth having substrate. Or maybe a really thin layer?

The key is keeping the filter bacteria good to go/mature.

I like it! Yes, you are limited by size but it could still be useful. I had similar challenges with an oversized filter/powerhead and trying not to turn the QT tank into a jacuzzi

Thank you!
Do you think the tank would be large enough to QT a couple Trigonostigma hengeli specifically?

Removing the sand is a good idea. I only finished setting it up, adding bottled bacteria and ammonia solution. Maybe it's a good idea to let them run for a day or so before making any changes. Maybe not

 

[Byron]

There are some issues affecting fish in this, worth keeping in mind. First is, definitely you want to acquire the full intended group of a species together. This makes quite a difference; the more there are, the less stressed, and that means less chance of ich. Second poont, you do not want to not have a substrate; this too is stressful, though if the bottom is not reflective (glass and acrylic are reflective, highly so) this is less of a concern. The point here though is to introduce the new fish to as stable and established environment as you can. Obviously, a temporary QT is not going to be established, but you get as close as you can.

I know the space is small, but you work with what you have. Ten juvenile rasbora will acclimate much better than two or three in the same space.

I take it you do not have floating plants. I cannot stress this enough, these are your lifesavers. Here for example, if you had floaters in the display tank, you could drop a few in here and not only do you no longer have any cycling issues, you also have shade and cover, and the fish will be that much better.