Ace Of Spades
Fish Gatherer
So you have given up fish keeping?
This Really Annoys Me!
- Thread starter Truck
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So you have given up fish keeping?
bloatedguppy
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I do see a bad point to dyed fish"I first thought you said dryed fish", but its just one of those things that make money but I see this complaint a little stupid as it makes you sound like its ruining your life. What's a manager going to do if s/he's making money for somthing that's selling good?, I mean yeah I don't agree with all the methods of dyed fish but most of them still live even if its a short period. I mean its like complaining about chicken eggs you get at the store they could of been more chickens to produce more eggs but you know the cycle keeps on and dying fish has been going on for a couple years, its not ancient but it not new.
kevinthecow
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DYED FISH?! THATS ----ING INSANE! You should dye the guys hair when hes sleeping. Show him how he likes that. 
And if people say they're just fish, really don't just take it. Fight back with your pride and dignity. Seriously, if anyone really tries buying the dyed fish, you should tell them what happened to the fish..
And if people say they're just fish, really don't just take it. Fight back with your pride and dignity. Seriously, if anyone really tries buying the dyed fish, you should tell them what happened to the fish..
Truck
UKAPS
today i will tell anyone that wishes to buy one, the life story.
lilfishie
Its a kinda MAGIC!! ^_^
Thats where i am going to disagree with you there, a larger number of them die during the process, i think i re-call reading that of the 1,000 odd died, less than 10 live past the dying stage, then as stated there lives are shortened
Wilder,
Have you stopped keeping fish now?
If so its good you still come on here and give advice
Karl
Have you stopped keeping fish now?
If so its good you still come on here and give advice
Karl
bloatedguppy
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I really have to disagree with you on that because honestly I think they would stop if the odds where that bad. I don't know where you got your knowledge(guessing some site) but I'm sure thats not true. You need to understand that if that much of there profit is going down there going to do something about it"There losing money by that much and if you mean they get to the petstore and dye not only will that petstore lose money its kinda the petsores falt for so many deaths. For everyone reading and posting I'm not for dyeing fish but I'm not gonna have it ruin my life or get in sombodies face about it cause honestly no ones gonna care and there gonna think your an ass!
Only have 3 harlequins left and one panda cory which are getting old now in a 30 gallon tank.
Once they die only keeping one fancy goldifish as they don't seem to look bored alday long.
Once they die only keeping one fancy goldifish as they don't seem to look bored alday long.
Amunet
Fish Aficionado
Most petstores probably get money back for dead fish.... pretty sure I've read here from people who can confirm that.
We were at Petsmart a few weeks ago, and the employees were writing down and removing all of the dead fish, and I'm guessing it's b/c they'll be given money back for them. So no, the petstores aren't really losing anything for the fish that die.
Anywho, I've also read somewhere.. think it might've been practical fishkeeping website, but not sure.... that alot of fish do not live through the dying process or die shortly after. It's been so long since I read that though so can't really remember any kind of numbers if there were any.
nosoup4you
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When I worked at a fish store (large international chain which shall remain nameless), we didn't keep track of dead fish...even if we had, we didn't get any sort of refund for them. The fish stores pay so little (and charge so much) for fish that even if the majority of them die, they are still going to make a profit.
rabbut
I don't bite, all that often...
Right, OK, from someone in the trade whom works in a shop the does not stock dyed fish under it's ethics policy, and thus is free to talk about the inside areas of the trade without risking their job, let me try to explain how the dyed fish sector of the trade works...
The bolded section is not true for most methods of dying. The most common method of dying fish is to dip them into a tank of acid to remove the slime coat, followed by a dip in the dye, followed by a dip in an irritant to restore the slime coat.
The process kills about one in every 10 fish directly. After a week to settle down before shipping out, the survival count drops to somewhere arround 1 out of 10 depending on which suppliers figures you are looking at. So for every dyed fish you see in the shop, there were 9 other un-dyed fish that were killed in or as a result of the dyeing process
That seems like quite a few to me, but if you consider that most... 
There is also tatooing going on, where dye is injected under the skin. In most cases the affects last longer, and more survive, arround 1 in 5 making it to the shop tanks...
Of course, the actual figures may be higher, as obviously the suppliers want to paint as gooder light on this as they can...
Those figures seem a little exagerated, but the point that losses are high is still true
OK, lets take dyed albino Phantom tetras as an example. The cost of a normal Albino Pantom tetra is 2p each. A Dyed Phantom Tetra is 25p to buy in. A normal Tetra at my POW costs £1.25 or 5=£5. A Dyed fish after mark-up would be arround £4 or 5=£13-50. The supplier makes more money for selling a Dyed fish after potential profit loss from not beeing able to sell the dead ones as usual abinos, hence why they continue to dye them... The losses suffered in the shop's tanks are covered in the mark-up, so again, the shop would find them profitable. A shop would need to sell 14 out of a lot of 100 to break-even on them. Add in overhead costs, and the fish become profitable if half are sold before running out of them left... In reality, out of 100 a shop would find about 5-10 a reasonable loss with dyed fish, so it is profitable to them also...
The LFS I work in only gets it's money back if the whole bag turns up DOA, and this is how most suppliers to the UK do things. If fish die after the bag is opened, it's at the shops loss. Many shops ask staff to record fish losses such that they can monitor the health of the fish they stock, enabling them to spot poor husbandry from staff, or poor quality fish from their supplier
All the best
Rabbut
EDITED for mathsmatics error. Break-even point on a lot of 100 dyed Phantom tetras is 15 fish sold as groups of 5, not 50 sold in groups of 5
The bolded section is not true for most methods of dying. The most common method of dying fish is to dip them into a tank of acid to remove the slime coat, followed by a dip in the dye, followed by a dip in an irritant to restore the slime coat.
The process kills about one in every 10 fish directly. After a week to settle down before shipping out, the survival count drops to somewhere arround 1 out of 10 depending on which suppliers figures you are looking at. So for every dyed fish you see in the shop, there were 9 other un-dyed fish that were killed in or as a result of the dyeing process
That seems like quite a few to me, but if you consider that most... There is also tatooing going on, where dye is injected under the skin. In most cases the affects last longer, and more survive, arround 1 in 5 making it to the shop tanks...
Of course, the actual figures may be higher, as obviously the suppliers want to paint as gooder light on this as they can...
Those figures seem a little exagerated, but the point that losses are high is still true
OK, lets take dyed albino Phantom tetras as an example. The cost of a normal Albino Pantom tetra is 2p each. A Dyed Phantom Tetra is 25p to buy in. A normal Tetra at my POW costs £1.25 or 5=£5. A Dyed fish after mark-up would be arround £4 or 5=£13-50. The supplier makes more money for selling a Dyed fish after potential profit loss from not beeing able to sell the dead ones as usual abinos, hence why they continue to dye them... The losses suffered in the shop's tanks are covered in the mark-up, so again, the shop would find them profitable. A shop would need to sell 14 out of a lot of 100 to break-even on them. Add in overhead costs, and the fish become profitable if half are sold before running out of them left... In reality, out of 100 a shop would find about 5-10 a reasonable loss with dyed fish, so it is profitable to them also...
The LFS I work in only gets it's money back if the whole bag turns up DOA, and this is how most suppliers to the UK do things. If fish die after the bag is opened, it's at the shops loss. Many shops ask staff to record fish losses such that they can monitor the health of the fish they stock, enabling them to spot poor husbandry from staff, or poor quality fish from their supplier
All the best
Rabbut
EDITED for mathsmatics error. Break-even point on a lot of 100 dyed Phantom tetras is 15 fish sold as groups of 5, not 50 sold in groups of 5
Truck
UKAPS
thank you for clearing up the importance and facts and figures for people who don totaly understand the situation.
invader
I'm a girl.
Like rabbut said in their post, it's not to get a refund on, it's to keep inventory. It just keeps track of where all the fish went once they get to the store (sold, died, etc). That's how they know how many to order next time around. It's a very big deal when we lose fish at our store, as we can lose a lot of money that way. I work at Petsmart and it's getting annoying when I hear about how bad they are. It's not easy trying to take care of hundreds of fish every day, including all the other animals and customers. Things happen and if there is a disease, we quarantine. It's not complete lack of care there.
rabbut
I don't bite, all that often...
At risk of going off topic, (sorry OP) I just want to add to Invader's post about staff care in shops....
Not many people realise the difficulty in running a shop. My POW has 140 tanks, and I seem to increasingly get left down there on the days I'm in over a holiday, alone... Next time you get to a shop and find it in a state, just ask yourself, if there were as many of you as there were staff members, between serving customers, would the you's have got on top of the situation by that point in the day? I suspect when you look on it that way, you will find the answer to be no, and thus will get an insite into what the staff there are going through. It is frustrating enough when you have enough staff to keep on-top of things in a shop, but when you are understaffed on a busy day with a few tank crashes/disease outbreaks/other issues to deal with... In most good shops, the staff will be fully aware of the various major issues arround, it's more a case of if they have got round to dealing with them yet, or have they been busy?
Imagine beeing thrown into an aquatics reatail environement, with two other staff and a 140 tank fishroom. It's a Saturday, so very busy with customers, and when you came in, one of the tanks had bust, dumping 100l of water onto the floor, there were disease outbreaks to deal with, boddies to pull, healthchecks to do, topping up of the system(s) to be done, customers to serve and possibly a crashed system or two... How would you prioritise that situation, and how long would it take to fix with a single member of staff available to deal with it? The other two are likely to be busy serving from an hour and a half after opening onwards. Welcome to a possible Saturday for staff at a typical busy fish shop....
In short, the quality of your shop realy depends on the staff running it, and how well managed it is in terms of what staff are available to do the jobs that need doing. A good shop may only be thus due to good managers, or good front-line staff. It is rare to find both staff and management are strong.
It takes a lot to convince a shop owner or manager to drop a profitable item over welfare grounds if the respective item is still a good seller... It takes a lot for struggling staff to convince their management that more staff are needed. Ultimately, shops are for profit, and they make disisions based on profit. "If I take on the extra staff member that my current staff are asking for, will my sales revenue increase to cover the cost of the extra staff member?" "If I let this extreamly good staff member leave insteat of paying more, will I realy loose enough of their regular customers to make a difference to my profits?" If the answer is no, it won't happen. Thats how managers tend to think, it's not "I'm going to drop that very profitable item because my staff tell me it has suffered as a result of making it profitable"
Sadly, unless shops can be made to be a not-for-profit organisation, I don't ever see these ways these places are ran things changing. Realy, the best shops are the ones that have good front-line staff, and that listen to their front line staff more than other local shops. Typically, these are the ones that are considered best locally, and those ones keep their staff longest, so you are more likely to speak to the same person at each visuit.
All the best
Rabbut
Not many people realise the difficulty in running a shop. My POW has 140 tanks, and I seem to increasingly get left down there on the days I'm in over a holiday, alone... Next time you get to a shop and find it in a state, just ask yourself, if there were as many of you as there were staff members, between serving customers, would the you's have got on top of the situation by that point in the day? I suspect when you look on it that way, you will find the answer to be no, and thus will get an insite into what the staff there are going through. It is frustrating enough when you have enough staff to keep on-top of things in a shop, but when you are understaffed on a busy day with a few tank crashes/disease outbreaks/other issues to deal with... In most good shops, the staff will be fully aware of the various major issues arround, it's more a case of if they have got round to dealing with them yet, or have they been busy?
Imagine beeing thrown into an aquatics reatail environement, with two other staff and a 140 tank fishroom. It's a Saturday, so very busy with customers, and when you came in, one of the tanks had bust, dumping 100l of water onto the floor, there were disease outbreaks to deal with, boddies to pull, healthchecks to do, topping up of the system(s) to be done, customers to serve and possibly a crashed system or two... How would you prioritise that situation, and how long would it take to fix with a single member of staff available to deal with it? The other two are likely to be busy serving from an hour and a half after opening onwards. Welcome to a possible Saturday for staff at a typical busy fish shop....
In short, the quality of your shop realy depends on the staff running it, and how well managed it is in terms of what staff are available to do the jobs that need doing. A good shop may only be thus due to good managers, or good front-line staff. It is rare to find both staff and management are strong.
It takes a lot to convince a shop owner or manager to drop a profitable item over welfare grounds if the respective item is still a good seller... It takes a lot for struggling staff to convince their management that more staff are needed. Ultimately, shops are for profit, and they make disisions based on profit. "If I take on the extra staff member that my current staff are asking for, will my sales revenue increase to cover the cost of the extra staff member?" "If I let this extreamly good staff member leave insteat of paying more, will I realy loose enough of their regular customers to make a difference to my profits?" If the answer is no, it won't happen. Thats how managers tend to think, it's not "I'm going to drop that very profitable item because my staff tell me it has suffered as a result of making it profitable"
Sadly, unless shops can be made to be a not-for-profit organisation, I don't ever see these ways these places are ran things changing. Realy, the best shops are the ones that have good front-line staff, and that listen to their front line staff more than other local shops. Typically, these are the ones that are considered best locally, and those ones keep their staff longest, so you are more likely to speak to the same person at each visuit.
All the best
Rabbut
bloatedguppy
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thank you for clearing up the importance and facts and figures for people who don totaly understand the situation.
You know what I totally understand the problem its just In my life it dosn't make as big of impact ok. I'm sure your store is doing great when your so paranoid and mad at your co-workers and customers when they get or buy a dyed fish. I also was talking about other petstores not just chain stores such as petsmart and petco, I just had a local lfs that I've known for years and they where awsome but they had to make a decision on keeping fw or sw and he stuck with sw because the fw would cost him more and do you know why?, Its because some of the problems I metioned earlier. You know what heres the main point, Yeah dyeing fish is bad to fish health but I don't think its gonna stop anytime soon.
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