Thinking About A Tank

[Rediahs]

Hi, I'm an absolute beginner, I don't own a tank or anything, the only thing I own is a betta, and all this stuff I'm learning about cycling and what fish yuo can keep together is getting me confused. But I'll get better I'm sure!

Just like with my betta, I want to know EVERYTHING before I start.

What size tank is reccomended for a newbie? 20g or something? I know that bigger is better and easier to care for and you can keep more fish and etc... but I don't have all the space in the world you know So what I'm asking is, what's a good tradeoff between how much space it takes up and how easy it is to care for?




I'm looking for something really easy, I don't fancy fish dying on me. Fresh or brackish water. I want cute, pretty fish that don't grow too big and might want plants later, or possibly right away.

My tapwater is normally quite hard. So it would be great if the fish were more inclined to hard water.


Can some more experienced tank keepers reccomend to me a nice setup? A tank size and some good fish to go in it that work well together.

I am just finding it hard to start; there are sooooooooo many fish to choose from. I already know to stay away from sharks and such, but it's sorting out all the details that is very hard. I feel like I need a springboard to leap from... some reccomendations would be nice. I have read the stickies and I'm reading lots of fish profiles.

 

[seanc]

How large is the space you have to use? a standard 29 gallon tank isn't a bad idea. reasonably sized, but large enough olume to have pretty consistent parameters.. you wont find nintrates increase so rapidly as compared to a smaller tank.. larger usually means less maintainence, but if you only want to keep a betta.. a single bette is more than happy in a 2.5 gal as long as you do regular partial water changes. or 4 females to a 10 gal with some corys or the like. Male bettas = terrible tank mates.. virtually nothing should be kept with them, females are a little more lenient but can be kept with a fair range of fish assuming you dont mind the risk some may disappear.
start freshwater .. brackish and marine do require alot more work..

I'd try planting from the start if your going to plant at all.. you'll need 1 WPG of light and some hardy plants; hornwort anubis java jern java moss christmass moss amazon swords etc.. alll pretty cheap. A layer of laterite under your gravel will help + weekly addittion of fertilizers but its not required.. they'll survive without but wont be quite as healthy.
If you go more than 1wpg of light you'll need to add co2.. and this is when it can get complicated.. stick to simple plants for now.

the plants will also be affected by your choice of fish.. some fish will tear them to pieces.

Some easily available fish that look great; neons, guppies, mollys, platies, endlers, cories (peppered, bronze, adolphie, etc) harlequins..
aim for a mix of top middle and bottom dwellers. don't have too big a differance in size.. though one ro two large fish as a centrepiece can look impressive; ancistrus (bristlenose plec) would be a good example of a large and interesting fish with personality.

Depending on the fish you'll need to feed a mix of live frozen flakes veg and algae wafers.. how complicated do you want it? those that will accept flakes are easiest to start with.

Have you read up on cycling a tank? (getting a beneficial bacteria colony established to deal with amonia hat fish excrete).
read the pinned thread on fishless cycling.. by far the best way to go,.


hope that helped a little, any q's feel free to mail me

Sean

 

[Rediahs]

Thank you very much, yep. I've read about cycling the tank and would be sure to do that before introducing my fish.

Here are some fish I saw that I find cute, would like to keep... neons/black neons, bumblebee gobys, pleco (I already know to stay away from the common ones, but there are smaller ones right?), guppies. I am pretty sure I can't keep all those together can I? I read that.... the bumblebee goby is brackish, the guppy can tolerate brackish, so can mollies, and mollies wouldn't be too bad, but those neons aren't, are they? And salt damages plecos, correct?

 

[seanc]

bubmleebee is brackish yes.. sg 1.13 (1=freshwater, 1.18 = marine)... too much for guppies or mollies to really thrive in tbh.. they prefer 1.03-1.05 sg.
Neons aren't too great with salt but can tolerate a tiny amount.. and salt with any scaleless fish (such as plecs and corys) = big no no.. it burns them.
A common small plec that can be a great addittion to any tank is an ancistrus, bristlenose plec. amazing little fish that is perfect as a centrepiece.
with guppies you need to have either all males or all females in groups of 5 or more.. or if mixing keep in ration 1:3 male to female to prevent violence.
all livebearers also have the problem they can operpopulate your tank within months.. they arent nicknamed millions fish for nothing.

another alternative is endlers.. smaller hardier and much more beautiful than guppies.. but very rare. well worth breeding though and easy to sell on. (I'v sold pure strain at £18 per juvie at just one month).
could keep a dozen of them, a dozen neons, and a pair of ancisturs (1m 1f) easily in a 29 gal and still have room for future acquisitions.

 

[GoldfishAttentionSpan]

I'm no expert, but from my experiences, I have found that Danios (zebras, pearls, leopards, though zebras are my personal favorite) are very enjoyable to keep, and they are quite hardy.

Best of luck!

 

[seanc]

gotta 2nd tht, zebs are great.. very active.. almost psychotically so.. and will prevent population explosion when kept with livebearers.. do stress out slow moving fish though.

 

[Rediahs]

The zebra danios look great, and are probably easier to find and cheaper than endlers eh?

I thought the rule was 1 inch per gallon, now if I have 29 gallons, neons grow to 1.5 inches? If I had 12, that would be 18 gallons used up... endlers about 1 inch, so that's 12 more inches, now 30. Danios are even bigger...

Now there's no more space, by the rule...

Are you sure there is room for more? :\

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah I'd recommend about 30g too, it's a nice size to start with.

I'd got for a nice community mix of apistogramma's, carefully selected gourami's (some can be agressive and wouldn't be suitable, some also get very big), a shoal of danio's and a shoal of black neons, a fancy but small plec, there's a really good topic in the plec section of plec's under 8 inches and a shoal of cory's.



Nothing too challenging water wise or agression wise, but a nice bit of variety and it's not your 'typical starter community tank'

 

[Rediahs]

I really like zebra plecs... but I know they are rare and expensive not sure how easy they are either.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I really like zebra plecs... but I know they are rare and expensive not sure how easy they are either.

aye, they're lovely, probably a no go though, very rare so they generally only get sold to breeders.

loads of other options though for fancy plecs

 

[seanc]

yup its not solely the length.. endlers and neons produce virtually no waste very low bioload. 6 of those for example wouldnt be the same as a 6 inch long plec.. it varis. the one inch is a rule of thumb, a guideline. only applies to small slim bodied fish.. and even then some have terriotial or space requirements. danios need alot more room to swim than some fish of their size.

 

[Rediahs]

yup its not solely the length.. endlers and neons produce virtually no waste very low bioload. 6 of those for example wouldnt be the same as a 6 inch long plec.. it varis. the one inch is a rule of thumb, a guideline. only applies to small slim bodied fish.. and even then some have terriotial or space requirements. danios need alot more room to swim than some fish of their size.

Hmm, okay, I guess I'll figure these things out eventually, for now I'll just take you guys' words for it. How many gallons would you say 12 neons "use up" in that 30g? Same with the endlers?

 

[Griz]

I really like zebra plecs... but I know they are rare and expensive not sure how easy they are either.

Prices on Zebra plecs have fallen dramatically over the past year or two as the supply increases.

Watch for them HERE to get an idea of what they are going for. Be aware that there are more than one species that are referred to as "zebras". Two years ago I thought I would never have one but lately I've been considering it.

 

[seanc]

I'd use an avaerage of 2/rds of an inch per endler, about half for a male endler, an inch for a female.
so 12 neons 12 male endlers and 2 ancisturs..
8 gal 6 gal and 12 gal= 26 gal full grown.
thinkfish.co.uk has a nice calc you can use as a rough guide, though it can be said to be a little overgenerous if your a new aquarist. Much better to understock and have less maintainence than to overdo it and find yourself doing 20% water changes every other day.

 

[Rediahs]

I really like zebra plecs... but I know they are rare and expensive not sure how easy they are either.

Prices on Zebra plecs have fallen dramatically over the past year or two as the supply increases.

Watch for them HERE to get an idea of what they are going for. Be aware that there are more than one species that are referred to as "zebras". Two years ago I thought I would never have one but lately I've been considering it.

I like the cute pudgy ones with the very well-defined clear black and white stripes. I've seen ones that are more brownish... don't fancy that look.

I noticed you live in southern Ontario! Me too Whereabouts?

Like this guy!