Should I try something other than bettas? Tired of loosing them...

[Nells250]

I bought my first fish after my mother passed away in 2023... I needed some company and kept her next to my computer desk. It was a white female betta.

Fast forward, and I am starting to get tired of loosing bettas... I recently had to put down one I bought as a baby who lasted about 2.5 years. But all the others have either ended up with that "wasting disease", or that cotton-looking stuff on their head. I recently bought a baby male and he's doing fine so far. But now my male alien betta is skinny and will probably have to be put down soon, too.

Part of me is sick of loosing these fish. Betta are like the pet dogs of the fish world, it seems. They have personalities, like to see you, can act silly, etc. AND they are pretty... BUT I am not so sure I am up to keeping them correctly anymore. Because of space and money limitations, I have to do nano-tanks. And I really don't enjoy the cleaning process... which is why I have snails to help keep glass clean.

ANYHOO, this is what I want to know: since the latest ill fish is in a "larger" tank, should I NOT get another betta and maybe try nano-fish instead? OR take advantage of a safer fish-free tank and add more shrimp?

I read recently that Chili Rasbora are a good, easy fish that can tolerate a smaller tank. BUT do they make more of a mess than one betta does? And can they live with shrimp? I also read they are not attentive to humans...

Thoughts?

 

[GaryE]

The fundamental that you don't mention is how you do maintenance. Water changes, weekly, of up to half the water are needed, especially in a nano tank.

But there is also the reality of the Betta trade - wasting is common and can't be prevented by the time you get the fish, in many cases. I was averaging about 5 years on Betta splendens when I last had them, and I've seen them go 7 years elsewhere. But I had a good source and wasn't getting wasting. Fungus on the head speaks to water quality. That can usually be rendered very rare by a careful water change routine.

So how are you running the tanks, what does 'nano' mean? I have kept tiny Rasboras, but never in less than 10 gallons, 40 L. They are social fish that like to be in large groups. My last tank for them was 30 gallons.

 

[fishthatfit]

Your three questions, in order.

Mess: much less, not more. A betta is a 6 to 7 cm carnivore eating protein pellets. A chili rasbora is 15 to 20 mm and a fair bit of that is fin. Ten of them together do not add up to one betta by mass, and waste output tracks the food that goes in. What changes is the kind of mess rather than the amount. Their food has to be tiny, and crushed flake or micro pellets scatter and settle where you cannot see them, whereas one pellet in front of a betta either gets eaten or does not.

Shrimp: yes, and Boraras are the standard answer for exactly this. Their mouths physically cannot take an adult neocaridina and can only manage the newest hatchlings. Give the colony moss or a dense corner and it out-breeds what gets picked off. Most nano fish sold as shrimp safe are only safe for adults.

Attention: they will not learn you. Chilis shoal, and watching a shoal is a real pleasure, but it is not the same pleasure. Nothing small does the thing a betta does when you walk up to the tank, and it is worth being honest with yourself about that before swapping.

On the losses, one distinction that may matter more than the fish choice. Wasting and the cotton on the head are two different problems. The cotton is usually columnaris, which is a bacterium in spite of looking exactly like a fungus. It moves in days rather than weeks, it gets much more aggressive above about 28 C, and antifungal medications do nothing to it, which is why people keep losing fish they thought they were treating. The wasting is the other one, and in shop bettas it is very often mycobacteria or internal parasites that were in the fish before you bought it. That is GaryE's point about sources, and it is not something a water change routine can reach.

So if you do go back to a betta later, the variable worth changing is where the fish comes from rather than what tank it goes in. A breeder or an importer who can give you a hatch date is selling a genuinely different animal from a cup on a chain store shelf that has been jarred for weeks.

And the shrimp only option really is the low maintenance one if the cleaning is the part wearing you down. A neocaridina colony self-limits to whatever the tank feeds it, so the bioload stays flat instead of growing into the thing you have to keep up with.

 

[BigBurgassio]

If you looking for longevity how about a black moor or other fancy gold fish they can live for 10 to 15 years in a big tank.

 

[Nells250]

RE: longevity = 10-15 years is a bit too much! ;-)

RE: NANO =
1) 6x6
2) 8x8
3) 6x7x12
4) Fluval SPEC 2.6GAL

RE: "Cotton"
I tried KanaPlex and it didn't do a thing. Another forum claimed Koi bettas are prone to such things... not sure if that is true or not.

RE: wasting
So I really don't know if the fish will end up with it or not? Unless you buy online from a breeder and spend $$, it's a crap-shoot? I was hoping going with an alien he'd be closer to wild, therefore more hardy

RE: WATER CHANGES: This is a tough one for me... I KNOW the fish want water changes more often BUT every time I DO, I loose plants. Everything melts away and money is lost... I don't have much to spend as it is... The tanks that seem to have the least amount of plant melt are the ones that don't get human-cleaned!! The Fluval is FINALLY looking nice and not touching it seems to be the reason why. I also stopped cleaning foam filters unless they look really bad or I know they are way too old.

The two smallest tanks (with one betta each) get partial changes but nothing crazy. Maybe a tap of Seachem Excel now and then. Again, when I change water, the plants die off... That is one reason sometimes I almost want just a planted tank with NO fish.....................

It seems like ANYTHING I do to tanks that are SUPPOSED to be done, hurt more than help!! I really don't understand... And all the chemistry and level-readings just go RIGHT over my head.

 

[MuddyWaters1]

I bought my first fish after my mother passed away in 2023... I needed some company and kept her next to my computer desk. It was a white female betta.

Fast forward, and I am starting to get tired of loosing bettas... I recently had to put down one I bought as a baby who lasted about 2.5 years. But all the others have either ended up with that "wasting disease", or that cotton-looking stuff on their head. I recently bought a baby male and he's doing fine so far. But now my male alien betta is skinny and will probably have to be put down soon, too.

Part of me is sick of loosing these fish. Betta are like the pet dogs of the fish world, it seems. They have personalities, like to see you, can act silly, etc. AND they are pretty... BUT I am not so sure I am up to keeping them correctly anymore. Because of space and money limitations, I have to do nano-tanks. And I really don't enjoy the cleaning process... which is why I have snails to help keep glass clean.

ANYHOO, this is what I want to know: since the latest ill fish is in a "larger" tank, should I NOT get another betta and maybe try nano-fish instead? OR take advantage of a safer fish-free tank and add more shrimp?

I read recently that Chili Rasbora are a good, easy fish that can tolerate a smaller tank. BUT do they make more of a mess than one betta does? And can they live with shrimp? I also read they are not attentive to humans...

Thoughts?

I have a 3 gallon tank with 10 chili rasboras and about 15 crystal red caridina shrimp. The rasboras are great- they are really small, so I have to stick my face right on the glass to really enjoy them, but they are fun to watch. The caridina shrimp were breeding for awhile- they haven't much lately, though- at least not to the point where the little ones show up. I recently got a few more caridina to add.

I change half the water once a week. My water is very soft out of the tap, so I use that. When I change the water, I go ahead and get enough water for the next change and just set it behind the tank. Not sure that does much good, but I think the water is better when it has sat for awhile (not sure on that, but I think that's true).

I feed them a pinch of Hikari micro-pellets once a day most days. On Sundays I will give them a little bit of baby brine shrimp and a tiny squirt of frozen food (mixed up whatever I have on hand at the time).

I've had this tank for 2 years and have had these fish for most of that time- about a year & 8 months I think. Haven't lost a fish in that time.

 

[bgarthe38 55]

After reading this, I am curious……what are your water parameters?
PH, GH, KH, and temperature

 

[MuddyWaters1]

PH is about 6.7, GH is 2-3, KH is about 1. Temp is just room temp mostly- about 74. I keep a heater in the winter and keep it about the same.

 

[bgarthe38 55]

I think your chili rasboras sound great. I love watching mine too. Your water seems ok. I do the same thing…..age my next WC water for days until WC time arrives.

Sadly, most Bettas (imho) are not of great quality these days.

 

[fishthatfit]

Your tank list ties the rest of it together. A 6x6 and an 8x8 in inches are about a gallon and about two gallons, and the Spec is 2.6. At that volume every change is a big change. Swapping two litres in a 5 gallon tank is a nudge; swapping two litres in a 1 gallon tank replaces half the world at once, and plants answer a swing in temperature or hardness by dropping leaves. That is most of your melt, and it is why the tank you leave alone is the one that looks good. Maintenance is not hurting you. The volume is making every action heavy handed.

The Excel is worth a second look as well. Glutaraldehyde melts Vallisneria and most mosses at the label dose. If the plants that keep vanishing are those, the cause is the bottle rather than the water change.

Koi is a colour, not a constitution. The marble gene does not carry disease with it. What does travel with it is the farm: koi and galaxy plakats come out of the same high volume export lines as everything else sold in a cup, and that is where the mycobacteria are. So yes, at a shop it is largely a crap shoot. Your instinct about the alien is right, though for a different reason than wild hardiness. Aliens are usually bred by hobbyists in small numbers rather than by the thousand, so you know something about where the fish has been. Give one a tight lid, they jump.

On the cotton, KanaPlex doing nothing in a 1 gallon tank is close to meaningless as evidence. It is measured per 5 gallons, so you were splitting a scoop by eye, and carbon in the filter strips it back out again. Before another antibiotic, try the free lever: bring the temperature down to around 24 C and add a tablespoon of aquarium salt per 5 gallons. Columnaris gets steadily worse the warmer the tank runs, and that is one thing you can change without buying anything or reading a test kit.

 

[MuddyWaters1]

PH is about 6.7, GH is 2-3, KH is about 1. Temp is just room temp mostly- about 74. I keep a heater in the winter and keep it about the same.

By the way, it hit me that I haven't tested the water in a long time, so I did it this morning before water change.

Temp: 78.8 - a little surprising because we have the thermostat on 74. I'm downstairs, so it should be lower- the room temp is 76.1 and the light raises the water temp I guess. Not horrible, but higher than I want.

GH: 4 drops (API test kit) 71.6ppm - higher than I expected, but I guess after 1.5 years it would build a bit? I do vacuum the substrate, but not all the time because I have plants.
KH: 1 drop- instantly yellow - so it's either 1 or 0.
PH: 6 - yellow color, so 6 or maybe a bit lower. That is surprising- my tap water is usually about 6.7.

Anyway, this is right before weekly water change.

 

[fishthatfit]

One drop of KH is the number that matters there. Tap at 6.7, tank at 6 the morning of a change, so it is acidifying all week and the change puts it back up. In a one gallon that happens fast.

78.8 is fine though. Bettas do better there than at 74.

 

[Nells250]

fishthatfit - thanks for the info! "Columnaris gets steadily worse the warmer the tank runs, " heater has been off until yesterday ;-)​

I was reading more about nano-fish, and one that was mentioned that are small, cheap, and don't SEEM to need more than 5 gallons are Least Killifish. Thoughts?

EDIT: just read that they are small but WILL in time kill off shrimp colonies

 

[Innesfan36]

Least Killifish. Thoughts?​

They're livebearers so you'd need to consider what you'll do about the young they produce every month.

 

[Nells250]

EVERY MONTH??? Wow, didn't know fish reproduced THAT often!