Planning first ever Betta sorority

[Innesfan]

Except you're wrong.

It never fails to amaze me how easily people dismiss facts that contradict their preconceived beliefs.

Yes! A telltale sign that you are dealing with such a person is when they write a response that begins with the words "Except you're wrong."

 

[plebian]

Yes! A telltale sign that you are dealing with such a person is when they write a response that begins with the words "Except you're wrong."

Well, thought required some deep thought.

 

[plebian]

So it's not about the fish but your ability to grow plants and that you are not willing to make efforts.

Every animal tries to follow its instincts. This can mean "finding a large group of conspecifics and a wide open space where predators can be spotted from a distance" or "hiding in certain structures and defending this place against other fish like itself".



Of course, you can measure yourself against those for whom a betta is just a decorative item...

Where are your facts, apart from anecdotal evidence?

And have you ever seen a short-finned betta in a densely planted aquarium?


So true ...

Plants introduce the likelihood that the fish will not do well due to constant maintenance, fertilizers among them. Your comment about predators is perfectly relevant. It's why plants are wholly unnecessary in an aquarium unless one includes predators.

What's ironic is your use of the term "anecdote". 95% of the knowledge in this hobby is anecdotal, and that's a conservative estimate. It's even more ironic when you intentionally ignore a controlled experiment in an unplanted environment:

I was keeping 4 of them in a 20 gallon QT for over a week prior to transport, and there were no issues with aggression whatsoever. That changed as soon as I transferred them to a 5 gallon bucket for delivery to the fish store.

Anecdotal evidence is like an opinion, everyone has one. Only a fool equal weight to everyone's opinions. The same holds true for anecdotal evidence, which can be very useful when examined using critical thinking skills. That of course is something generally lacking on Internet forums, including this one.

 

[Gertrudae]

It's even more ironic when you intentionally ignore a controlled experiment in an unplanted environment:

Tell me about your control studies in a planted aquarium! And I'm really curious about the catch reports on wild (not introduced!) Betta splendens caught in open water habitats without plants. There are such reports, aren't there?

Your comment about predators is perfectly relevant. It's why plants are wholly unnecessary in an aquarium unless one includes predators.

Bettas are Micropredators ...

Even if you don't include bigger ones that could prey on Betta like e. g. Channa sp. would do in the wild - your Betta does not know that there is none and never will be. It's instincts tell these fish "try to hide in dense vegetation, it's safe and you can hunt there."
A Betta is not a fast swimmer, even Plakats with short fins. This fish ist not built to live and hunt in open water.

That of course is something generally lacking on Internet forums, including this one.

Good one. I'll take that and observe my fish instead of reading narrow minded stuff in a forum.

I know that I will never change your mind, but I don't want others, especially beginners, to read only your opinion about keeping fighting fish.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Spot on @Innesfan. Back in 2005 or so, I visited the Iowa home of Dr. Gene Lucas who was a famous betta expert and breeder. I spent the day with him and came away much smarter than when I arrived! While touring his fish room and discussing breeding and hybridization, I came across a tank full of male bettas. It was simply astonishing. He told me they were all siblings. It wasn't a case of them living a non-aggressive life, rather, it was being raised together and having enough to space and quantity of fish to prevent any one of them from being singled out. It was really fascinating. Dr. Lucas was a remarkable, kind man and I am grateful for his contributions to our hobby.

That's a fascinating story! And how lucky you were to have that day!!!!! Thanks for sharing!

 

[thrujenseyes]

When I bred plakats from Thailand, I gave the sibling group to a man with a 65 gallon open topped tank with large Pistia on the surface, and the roots hanging down. He astonished me as he kept the whole group, males and females together, and the tank had run peacefully for over a year before I lost touch with him.

So a sibling group of females should work, but in a large, shallow tank in a large group. One of the problems you have buying Bettas for such a set up is a lot of farms sell plakat, short finned females to screw up 'compeitive' hobbyist breeding of long finned fancy Bettas. The young never look like the fancy parents from those spawnings.

But in many cases, short finned males get mixed in with the shipping, and that's where 'sororities' can blow up quickly. One local store owner told me that his last ten imports of females from Thailand, Indonesia and Singapore had included anywhere from 10 to 25% cryptic males. He would sort them out by behaviour.

that's so interesting!

 

[plebian]

t's instincts tell these fish "try to hide in dense vegetation, it's safe and you can hunt there."

Of the 7 Bettas I have only one pays the least attention to the plants. The others all prefer hanging out on the driftwood, the substrate, above the powerheads, or simply hanging at the surface. That's simply a fact, not some made up theory by someone who thinks they can read the minds of fish.