Online fish - wild caught vs tank raised - wild are better??

JCinPA1

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I'm looking on wetspot at fish and I noticed they had tank raised cardinal tets and wild caught for $1 more each. I'm guessing that the wild caught are hardier than tank raised?? But I really don't know, just guessing here. I know breeding in captivity can make some fish less robust. Is it a big difference?

I just noticed he has lots like that. Harlequin rasboras for instance, are wild caught. Better than the ones at PetSmart?

Thanks.
 
A little online searching and I found out that these fish should be more colorful, and perhaps hardier than farm raised fish, but they will be intolerant of my pH 7.8 water at first. AI gave me a good schedule to fix this. Start with a 50/50 mix of tap water and RO water, with some catappa leaves, while I do the Dr. Tim's fishless cycle program.

After the fish are in that water for two weeks, I can start water changes using 65% Tap, then 80% tap, and finally 100% tap raising them to my area's nor pH over, say 6 weeks. They should live long happy lives there as long as it is stable. But I cannot get them from wetspot then plop them into my water, the shock would be dangerous.

That sounds like a good plan to me. Open to any thoughts and suggestions.
 
Most fish do not require single digit parameters. They can thrive within a specific range. As a rule it is easier to acclimate softer acid water fish to harder more basic conditions than doing the reverse. But this is species dependent.

Next, if we change the parameters beyond a certain point the fish may do OK but you will not get viable spawns, so if breeding is a primary concern the limit to parameter change will be much less than just keeping them healthy.

Finally. acclimation is more complex than most of us realize. I learned this from reading research papers. When a study begins the first step is to bring the fish into the lab tanks and let them acclimate to the water in these tanks, this is often a two to 4 week stay to do this. Then the experimenting begins. Along the way fish are often killed in order to do he testing. The researchers want to see (measure)the changes that take place in various internal systems and sometimes structures. Internal acclimation changes do not occur in hours or days, it often involves week.

Here is a really god paper which illustrates the above. I am changing the color of the more important text below

Craig, P.M., Wood, C.M. and McClelland, G.B., 2007. Gill membrane remodeling with soft-water acclimation in zebrafish (Danio rerio). Physiological genomics, 30(1), pp.53-60.

Abstract​

Little is known regarding the ionoregulatory abilities of zebrafish exposed to soft water despite the popularity of this model organism for physiology and aquatic toxicology. We examined genomic and nongenomic changes to gills of zebrafish as they were progressively acclimated from moderately hard freshwater to typical soft water over 7 days and held in soft water for another 7 days. Gills were sampled daily and mRNA expression levels of gill Na+-K+-ATPase (NKA) α1a subunit, epithelium calcium channel (ECaC), carbonic anhydrase-1 and 2 (CA-1, CA-2), Na+/H+ exchanger (NHE-2), V-type proton (H+)-ATPase, and copper transport protein (CTR-1) were quantified by real-time PCR. Changes in enzyme activities of gill NKA were determined and protein levels of NKA and ECaC were quantified by Western blotting. Levels of mRNA for ECaC increased fourfold after day 6, with an associated increase in ECaC protein levels after 1 wk in soft water. CA-1 and CA-2 exhibited a 1.5- and 6-fold increase in gene expression on days 6 and 5, respectively. Likewise, there was a fivefold increase in NHE-2 expression after day 6. Surprisingly, CTR-1 mRNA showed a large transient increase (over threefold) on day 6, while H+-ATPase mRNA did not change. These data demonstrate a high degree of phenotypic plasticity in zebrafish gills exposed to an ion-poor environment. This not only enhances our understanding of ionoregulatory processes in fish but also highlights the need for proper experimental design for studies involving preacclimation to soft water (e.g., metal toxicity).

As we can determine from the above true acclimation is not what we do when we get new fish. I learned a long time ago not to spend time and energy trying to acclimate new fish, SIince most of them are shipped to me the most important things is getting them out of the bag water and into less harmful water as quickly as possible after opening the bag. I do not do temperature acclimation either. If a fish is in the wrong temperature water to the point where it will soon kill them, the solution is to get them back into the proper temperature range water as fast as possible. Research showed this was the way to prevent death.

I also have to say that the above applies a lot but not all of the time. Some species do need to be acclimated for some amount of time.

My experience with all of this occurred when I began to keep wild Altum angels which come out of very soft acid water- think a pH of 4.0. My goals was to bring them up to 6.0. I spent almost 6 months doing this. Also, contrary to the urban aquarium myth that the cycle doesn't work as water drops towards pH 6.0 and lower. In acid water the ammonia is all in the form of ammonium. While this is less toxic than ammonia, elevated levels over time will harm or even kill fish.

Some of the ammonia oxidizing microorganisms we want in our tanks have receptors to ammonia and this is what they prefer. However, they also have some receptors for ammonium. But they use this less efficiently. The bigger risk is many of the harmful bacteria whci cane make the fish sick cannot live inacid water. The result is the fish do not develop immunity against such bacteria, If we then more them into a typical tank which will has some amount of bad bacteria, they are likely to succumb.

I killed a number of Altums until I understood all of this and was able to deal with it. The best advice I can offer for what you want do is this. We may know on paper how e want to accomplish adapting fish to new parameters or even how much ammonia or ammonium they can handle and for about how long, we need to observe the fish. When they are not handling this well, their behavior will change and when we see this we know we need to act. One species will handle given parameters and another will be in trouble.

So out job is tp pay close attention when we do parameter changes or some cycling related issues. Trust the fish to show us when something is not right that has an effect on them that we can see. It is better to take a bit longer making changes by doing things more slowly than it is to make the mistake the other way and do them to fast.

I hope the above answers your question. Make a small change and then observe for a while. If all goes well, do the next change. The goal is to have fish that are thriving ant a contest to see how fast you can get them to that point. Patience is one of the harder fishkeeping skills to ,aster especially when we are just stating in this hobby.

One last note here. Wild caught fish should generally have a greater genetic diversity than tank raised or farmed fish. Also, I used to work with a friend who imported fish. I used to pick them up at the transshipper outside the NYC airports. I always saw a PetCo van parked outside the place when I went to do the pick-up. My first redline barbs on Aquabid cost me $20+ a fish over 20 years ago. A few years later I also got 50 imported for $2.75/fish. But, I then quarantined them for 5 months before I was selling them at an NEC weekend event. Wetspot has a good rep. We, as hobbyists, mostly deal with their retail operation but they are also wholesalers who import fish in quantity as well as buying the from breeders.
 
That's very helpful, thanks.

I just realized that I should not be wondering how they live in the wild, but how they live at wetspot. Do they keep the wild caught tetras and rasboras in the same type water as the corydoras. Then I should adjust my water to at least somewhat close to theirs. I suspect they would guide me through an email inquiry.

Since this will be a newly cycled tank using Dr. Tim's process, and empty, I can modify my tap water with some RO water easily to make the transition for the fish easier. Your comment here makes me much less nervous about this now.

Most fish do not require single digit parameters. They can thrive within a specific range. As a rule it is easier to acclimate softer acid water fish to harder more basic conditions than doing the reverse. But this is species dependent.
 
Well, I'm worried about nothing apparently. From their website:

Water Parameters
Our general water parameters are as follows:
pH – 7.5 – 7.8
Water Temperature – about 72°F (room heated at 82°F)
dGH – 32ppm (1.79°)
kH – 107ppm (5.98°)

I spoke with the online manager and she said I should be fine as long as my water is stable. I'm overly worried, perhaps. Still learning.
 
Fish stores of whatever type expect the fish to be there only a very short time as keeping fish for more than a few weeks costs them money. Many of them use whatever comes out of their taps to keep the fish in as a few weeks in the "wrong" conditions won't do much harm. Long term it is better for fishkeepers to try to keep fish in the same water parameters as they originate not the store water.

As an example, we have a member who has hard tap water. As he is in the UK the store he buys his fish from is probably local to him with the same tap water. When he kept cardinal tetras in his hard tap water they lived no longer than 18 months. Then he started using RO water and found his new cardinals were still alive after several years.
 
@Essjay is (as usual) correct. The issue is osmoregulation, and the strain it puts on fish kidneys. Most fish have evolved fairly well tuned to the conditions kidneys, and in the case of softwater fish, an ability to extract the minerals they need from fairly impoverished water. Long term, in mineral rich waters, that adaptation turns against them and their systems can't cope. Overload kills them.
Hardwater fish in soft can't extract enough minerals, and rapidly develop neurological problems. That's way more obvious, and quick to show.
The stress on their systems results in shorter lives. When I was younger living in a harder water region, I thought my 3 year lifespan tetras were doing great. When I moved to a region with soft water, 7 to 9 years became the lifespan. Others who didn't have a storm in winter with a long powercut have had them live longer.
Objectively, a 3 year lifespan says I could keep cardinals at a level that would satisfy a seller, and most aquarists.
In my current softwater region, cardinals don't just live, but can be bred and raised.
In very hard water, they are dead in weeks.

But the fish I get were parked for up to a few weeks in medium hard water. Both of the people I usually buy from have the water my fish only got 3 years of life in. Plus the major regional distributor is in my old neighbourhood. As Essjay noted, the business thrives on turnover. Fish that sit in tanks cost money, and when I worked with importing, if I wanted a fish I unpacked on Friday, I bought it right away. If they were healthy, they moved right out. By the next Wednesday, that tank would be empty. That's a thought for those who like to take time to consider an order. If the place is successful, fish don't stick around.

It seems to me, anecdotally, that there is no lasting damage done there, and the fish thrive once they get into appropriate water conditions. I like my softwater, rainforest fish. Their lifespans are good and they tend to be able to breed within a few weeks of arrival here..

I prefer wild caught fish for several reasons. The main one is disease and parasite exposure. I find in the last while, the large Asian farms seem to be selling healthier fish. There is improvement. But crowding fundamentally causes disease, and to meet the price demands of the big US near monopoly chains, corners are cut. Farmed fish can be sickly.

Wild caughts can have bacterial diseases, like farmed. Shipping 300 fish in a bag for 2 days is stressful, whether farmed or wild. But those diseases usually hit at the wholesale level and are treated before the fish are sold. They rarely include chronic fishfarm specials like Camallanus nematodes or fish tuberulosis. They kill fast, and the fish aren't sold til they've survived and recovered.

Treatments matter. Some fish have their growth pushed by antibiotic use on the farms. They get to you needing to develop a proper gut flora, and are vulnerable. This seems to hit a lot of fancy Betta splendens.

People. People are a problem on farms. They modify fish. Hybridization, long fins, balloon bodies, breeding for one trait without realizing the targeted genes control other aspects - messed up fish created on farms. Give me wild type evolution over that every time. German Blue Rams are an example. The farmed ones are more colourful than the pretty (extremely rare) wild caughts, but behaviour-wise, they are transformed. I had wild rams twice, and they were feisty, fun, crazy little fish that never stopped. My GBR domestic ones were languid, lazy things with occasional bursts of activity, but a sleepy way to them in comparison.

I like fish to behave naturally, and put effort into designing my tanks so that may be possible. If the breeding has changed them, they can become boring. It can go both ways. People who caught their own Firemouth Cichlids have told me that Mexican fish is easy going in their tanks, but for a period in the 80s and 90s they became very unpopular because a lot of the tank breds were really aggressive. I was told that the farms imported wilds to try to breed that out, but the fish had already lost popularity and hasn't recovered it. Breeding can go both ways.

Finally, there's a small social issue. The Asian farms are often stock market listed Singapore corporations with lots of people working for them, and lots of shareholders extracting money. The wild exporters are smaller more Mom and Pop deals, often with the same two or three people when you contact them. Their fishers are often indigenous communities who manage their fishery as a steady livelihood that allows them to stay in the regions they value. For example, researchers report that where freshwater rays are collected for export, they are plentiful. Where they aren't they are less common as they are often killed on sight because their stings are so painful.

So I overthink it, but do so based on 60 years of fishkeeping experience. I've gone off on wild collecting trips and I've met fishers. I've been in long conversations with a number of the very cool people who go out and bring in these fish. It's a business that's under pressure as people are buying fewer and fewer fish from any source, and the hobby is contracting in the west (but growing in India and China).

Given the chance, I go wild.
 
This is awesome, thanks! You’ve convinced me. Get the fish, put them in my water, and slowly change the water to what they were caught in. The exact opposite of what I was thinking. Luckily, RO filters are not expensive, this should not be difficult to do.

I called WetSpot yesterday, and they are very low on fish, however. It’s the rainy season in Brazil and fish are not being caught there. She did say some of the same things—wild caught fish are generally hardier and live longer. After reassuring me I could take them from the shipping water to my water without osmotic shock, she did not suggest I try to replicate their original water, though. I will.
 
Replication unfortunately isn't Star Trek stuff. Whatever you do, you have to be able to maintain it consistently. A lot of people start out and then slack off on water changes because it becomes hard to do. Fish die from that.

Steady wins the game of life. Big bounces in water composition are an enormous physical stress on all but euryhaline fish - ones that move between salt and fresh. We don't keep many of those.

There is a phenomenon that feeds fools who sell the no water change faith - as rainforest rivers dry up in dry season, fish get caught in overpopulated, rough conditions in shrinking pools that can last for a while til the rains come. The fish do shut down systems. A friend once brought me mollies she'd taken from a 6 foot long, 3 inch deep Mexican side pool on a drying river. When she went back the next day for more, the baking sun had already dried the habitat up, with no survivors. We recreate that but keep the fish in it with no respite ever - shortened lives. But they do survive for a while and that's good enough for online gurus.

You get a lot of info on hobby sites that are very short term. We think about our northern air seasons, without realizing that in the tropics, water seasons are really important and very striking.

On the map, this was a lovely stream in Benin last dry season....
 

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I'm trying to glean what you're suggesting in the above. Is it not relatively easy to maintain a pH range using RO water and tap water? I'm adept at using test kits now. My plan is (please critique it).

  • Fishless cycle
  • Add fish - leave for two weeks to chill out
  • First water change is 20% RO
  • Second water change is 65% RO
  • Third water change is 80% RO
  • Monitor for preferred pH going forward
I'd rather do that and have healthy, happy fish that live longer. I could just keep them in my tap water, but it would bother me knowing it is not ideal for them.
 
I view pH as at best an indicator. What you need to monitor is GH and KH, or as I do, use a conductivity and TDS pen. Mine cost me $15 CAD, and does the job.

pH is easy to read and can be useful, but the key thing to understand is hardness.

Sometimes, if your water is close to that needed by the fish you like, you can do what I do and be lazy. Every 3 months my city puts a water report online, and it gives the analysis of every pumping station in town. There's one I can see from my house, and another about a km away. So since I use tap water, I can understand what's going on from far better testing than cheap little reagent kits offer. I confirm with the TDS/conductivity pen.
 
Oh boy. This hobby is like peeling onions. You are never finished. :lol:

My water reports don't report hardness for some reason. pH and lots of other stuff, but not hardness, surprisingly. I don't know what that pen does. Yes it's cheap, but I have the API Hardness test kit. My tap water is about 7.8 pH, 4 KH and 10 GH.

When I look up the fish I want to put in my tank I get the following (temperature *F):

Cardinal tets = 5-7.5 pH (below 6 is ideal) and 2-6 KH 73-81* 75 preferred

Harlequins = pH levels: 6.0 to 7.8 (6.5 is best) and Water hardness: 2 to 15 KH (the lower the better) 72-80* 74 target

Corydoras = 70°F-80°F, 6.0-8.0 pH, 3-10 dKH

Thick lipped gourami = 72-82*, pH 6.0-7.5, and 2-10 dKH

Fancy guppies = 64*-84*, mid 70s ideal, pH 7.5-8.0, 8-12 dGH, 4-8 dKH

This is all getting very complicated for me. I do not mind getting an RO Buddy RO filter, it's not that expensive or hard to use during water changes. But is it necessary? I'm tempted to just set up my community tank with tap water and be done with it. Weekly or bi-weekly water testing and 20-30% water changes and call it good.
 
Maybe I get rid of the Cardinal Tetras and Harlequin Rasboras and go with fish like Zebra Danios and Platties. Those with the corys, gourami, and guppies will probably be fine and comfortable in my local water with a target temperature of 76-77 degrees. Then be done with it. Maybe add some RO water from time to time, but perhaps optional.

No need for RO filtration and obsessing over water parameters. I really want an easy tank to maintain the grandkids can enjoy. I'm not likely to get as far into "the hobby" as you folks.
 
Maintaining the pH when trying to alter the params from one's tap is chemistry. Normally our tap water tends to be somewhat stable. It depends on the source. Most of the people here are using municipal water supply. Some of us have private wells. So how stable the numbers are controlled differently.

A municipal supplier may have to do things to keep the water up to the standards they need and they may change from using chlorine to using chloramine, They beed to change parameters due to needs are their side. Nitrification is a perfect example. They may change them temporarily to achieve a specific end. They may announce this in advance or they may not.

In orer for me to lower my TDS and pH from my tap reuired O learn the chemistry involved. This requires we have feedback on what is in the water and this is where the issues begin. In order for me to control the parameter for the Altums I needed to have decent digital testing equipment. There is a limiot to what we can measure,

I tried doing it with the API test kits and even a digital pH tester. This was not sufficient. I ended up with a three way continuous monitor. It let me see numbers for conductivity in microsiemens, or in one of two TDS measurments using two different ppm conversion scales. I can make sense of the ppms better than the conductivity number so I use TDS, Next, I could get the water temperatre readins in either F or C and being an American it was F. The final readings were for pH.

The most important part of making sense of pH levels and keeping these f=withing the desired range relies mostly on KH. In our tanks this is mostly influenced by carbonates and bicarbonates. One might think that these are only involved with the pH. This is not the case. The cycling related microorganisms ned inoorganic carbon. The get this from bith CO2 and the carbonates and bicarbonates, But, is doesn't end there. Plants can also use these things.

Yhis means there are more variables involved than just what effects the levels. When we want to lower TDS and pH we do so primarily by dealing with KH. For this we need a KH test kit. I used an RO/DI unit which makes purer water than just an RO unit only. However, the DI part was my decision to make and was not essential. The key to my succeeding was my ability to know the parameters I mentioned above on a fairly constant basis. A quick glance at the digital readouts from my continuous monitor supplied these on an ongoing basis.

While I wanted the pH at 6.0 and never as high as 6.5, I had to pay attention. what happeed for me was from week to week going into water chnages etc. th pH tended to rise towards 6.5. WHen the time came to do a water change I needed to pre-,ix my tap and my RO/Di components for the changing water based on the numbers at the time. To control the pH I needed to lower the nubers for the water going back into the tank. I used muriatic acid or baking soda to fine tune the new water. The goal was simple, I wanted the tank water to be in the 6.0 range. This meant I often needed the new water to be below 60 by a bit.

Also, I was doing stained water whhic makes using colormetric test kits was not possible and why I had the digital monitor. I batched the new water next to the tank and would move the probes from the tank to the new water I was setting up. This made the process a lot easier for me.

When I began my tap parameters were such that a 50/50 RO/DI to tap worked fine. But my well water parameters were subject to change based on drought conditions or the lack of them. Lots of rain over a shortish period (wweks) or no rain at all for an extended period change the tap parameters. Since I did not have any plants in the tank, this made things somewhat easier. It meant the KH levels were a bit easier to keep where I needed them.

The most basic part of KH is how it works. KH is often referrred to as temporary hardness. The way KH keeps [H stabe is from its ability to absorn the acids in water. A kigher KH hold up basic numbers. One way to undersatnd how KH levels work is to think of it like a sponge. As acids try to lower the pH, the KH "absorbs" the acid and prevent the drop. But there is a limit and once the KH as dome all it can, more acid than oit can control will then start to drop the pH and do so more rapidly.

What this means is that the key to hold anu pH level depends ton the KH levels. Muritaic acid drops pH and baking sode raises it. The problem with the baking soda is that ir has a tendency to drive the pH towards a stability level in the 8.3 range. So, when I need a bit of a bump up in pH because I had dropped it a bit to low, I would use a small amount of baking soda to fix that, I needed to make sure I did not go beyond what I needed to fix the pH such that I raised it because i added too much.

As you can see, there is a lot of chemistry going on and the more complex a tank is in thes respect, the harder it becomes to control. Stabilty of the numbers becomes the challenge.

In the time I bagab dealing with this I learned that what is considered to be gospel when it comes to changing pH by more than 0.1 or 0.2 should be avoided as it would be harmful to the fish. And then I went to buy my first Altums from a gent who had a bsement fish room filled with acid water fish. He had a full time job and this was his side thing. He imported a lot of the fish he sold. Because of his jon his wife helped him with maintaining the tanks.

His wife would only do the water changes but did not deal with the paramters. This was left to him. As I tourder his fish room on the Stayrdat when I ent toi buy my angels, he was doing the chemistry part. He had a battery powerd digital mnitor. I watched him put the probes into a tank, saw the reading for pH which was too high and what he did next blew up the idea that limiting the amount of change to pH which could be done.

He addeed enough acid do the tank such that within 5 minutes he lowered the pH by 1.10. I watched the fish and they showed no siugn of distress etc. And this was when I learned that there are few universals when it comes to this stuff. Some time after I got my angels and was keeping them I actually did a few drops in pH of 1.0 in the same way. What I can also say is that dropping the pH for acid water fish works OK for some species, However, going in the other direction I am not so sure such a large change would be handled by fish needing more basic pH nu,ber would be so safe.

What does this mean for the situation here? What I learned was that I needed to master it all by working a bit gradually. Since I could measure the tank number I could get an idea of what I needed them to be for the new water to correct them tanl parameters back toeard my pH 6.0 pH and 50 - 60 pppm TDS. By moving the probes from the tank to the new water container. I could make the needed changes. The problem was I had to estimate how much acid I needed to add to the changing water to priduce the numbers I needed. So I tried to do it by adding what I felt was the right amount of acid and then waiting for the effect to show up on the monitor.

If i did not lower the pH by enough, I added a bit more. When I added to much i then added a pnch of baking soda to fix it. The problem with all of this was how things progressed as I batched the new water. RO/DI water has 0 kh and it has a fairly low GH which does effect TDS.

In theory, pur water should have 0 hardenss and a neutral pH. And coming out of the unit it does. But then it mixes with the air which contains CO2. CO2 in water creates cabonic acid and acid lower pH. So that 7.0 is soon dropping as a result. More xhemistry at work. Since a lot of what we may try to do in a tank interms of parameters is more complex than we imagined when we first start with all of this, it took me time to learn what I was doing and how to make is work with the least effort and making the fewest mistakes.

This is the challenge here. For me it was only involved with one tank. the other 19 tanks run on pure well water year round unless something changes. My water changes over time based on drought coconditons or a lack thereof. Over the years my tap pH has been as low as bout 6.8 and as high as 7.3. My well water come in with a higher than normal level of CO2/ Once this has outgassed and come into balance with tha air, the pH rading is finally accurate and somewhat stable.

Under normal condtitions my tap pH is 7.0 and my TDS are about 83 ppm. But over the years these numbers change as indicated. My lowest TDS reading ihas been in the low 50s and as high as close to 120 ppm. This meant my best friend became my digital 3-way continuous monitor. Without this I would have failed to do things as they needed to be done. I am lucky in that I have the ability to spend the money I needed to get the tools I had to have. My monitor cost me about $150 to $175. But to manage things I also needed to callibrate the monitor regularly using reference solutions. I have them for acid, neutral and basic water readings.

Every few months I had to recalibrate the setting on the monitor. For the lowering I did I would callibrate at 4.0 and 7.0. Were I going in the other direction it would be 10 and 7.

This all may ssound a bit intimidating. it is not as hard or difficult as it lookes based on all of the above. What I needed was to have an undersatnding of basic water chemistry and then some caeful trial and error learning until I figured it out. Unless it is an emergecny, we can work somewhat slowly at first and get the feedback we need to learn what we should be doing. It is better to make a mistake on the too little change side and have to add more or less amount oof what e use to contol things. When the goal was to lower the pH ny 1.0 one can drop it by less and then add more acid to hit the target, On the other hand dropping the pH by too much means we have to correct things in the opposite direction.

Over time as I got better at doing things, it became easier toget the desired numbers in fewer steps. Sometimes the pH in the tanks would drift towards 6.5 faster and I needed to change the pH in the tank before it was time for the weekly water changes etc. In such cases I would add a bit of muriatic acid directly to the tank to make a 0.3 change wheras during noirmal maint. I owuld be adding 5.6 or 5.7 ph changing water.

What you need to do is to learn by doing. the key is underdo rather than over do. it is a lot easier to add a bit of acid which turns out to be no enough and then have to add more than if you add to much and them have to reverse this. Unfortunately, different acid water fish will handle things differently. The fish you want to keep may not handle the sort of full 1 .0 changein pH rapidy than my Angels did. Or maybe they can. I cannot help you in terms of saying if you do what I did will be the right way for you to do so with your species.

What I can tell you is experiment, work somewhat slowly at first until you learn what is the best way to get the results your fish need. They key to all of this is having the tolls you need to measure things accurately and then to implement changes a bit more gradually than you will be doing a few months down the road. I made mistakes when I first began chaning my parameters and you will likely do so as well. The key is it is OJ to make a small mistake but to avcoid a big one. If you need to drop your pH by 0.5, it is ok to do it in two or even three steps rather than a single one which changes things by a lot more and which may have a bad result.

There used to be a really good site I would send folks to to help understand all of this. However, it seems to have shut. They had a really good section on water chemistry and was where i leared the basics. It was a more modern version of one of the earliest sites for this stuff called thekrib.com. This still exists but I have never used it. it may help you to go here https://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/

I am hppy to try and help you if you get stuck or have questions. However, having accurate test reaedings rquires one have the needed testing stuff to do so. The monitor I used has been modernized. Today it is harder to gind without wireless. I do not use a smart phone and my equipment was purchased before it came with this capacity.

I used the Blue Lab Guardian Monitor. it is hard to find in the non-WiGi version. But no WiFi makes it much cheaper.

The Bluelab Guardian Monitor Wi-Fi is designed to operate as a standalone, non-Wi-Fi unit if preferred, allowing for continuous, on-site monitoring of pH, EC, and temperature without internet connection. The Wi-Fi capability can be completely disabled in the settings, and older or dedicated non-Wi-Fi models (like standard or older XPeel versions) are also available.
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Thanks to you all! I enjoy learning about all this, I really do. But I realize now it is all at a level I am simply not interested in attaining.

My initial goal was to make sure shipped fish would not suffer osmotic shock going into my tank. Kat at WetSpot reassured me I should not have any problems. As they've been in business since 1999, I trust her.

Then I thought, "Well maybe I can make the water more to what the species comes from." Well, it's a community tank they don't all come from the same area.

At this point, having mastered the nitrogen cycle, API Master Test Kit use, and basic maintenance, like water changes, I'm thinking forget it. Get hardy fish that tolerate harder water with pH 7.5-8.0 and plop them in my tap water and be done with it.

I think I'll change my fish mix instead of my water. I'll go with the corys, zebra danios, platties, and my guppies and gourami. They should pretty much all be fine in my water and I'll take good care of them.

If I get more into the hobby and want to keep specific fish with tight requirements (like discus), I'll get into all this later. That is unlikely.

I appreciate all the responses though, very much, this place is a wealth of knowledge for sure!
 

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