Sure Fire Way To Rid A Tank Of Snails.

[fredgarvin]

These mini lobsters just LOVE snails. And they are relentless in their extermination of ALL the snails in a tank after a coupla days. The snails are absolutely defensless against them. They grab the shell in one claw and riiiiip the snail out with the other. Down the gullet. No fuss. No muss. No snails. I no longer have a crayfish, but did loan it out to freinds with a snail problem. If you KEEP a crayfish be sure to nip its bottom main claw every time it molts. (After it eats your snails of course.) These creatures are fascinating to watch as they very carefully inspect every bit of refuse and gravel in their ceaseless patrol of the tank. The BEST scavengers around! One problem they DO get rather large and they may dig a cave under a rock or castle.

 

[PRW1988]

Crayfish or Crawdads can't be kept with fish as they eat them. The only snails I've ever seen them eat are small apple nails, and ramshorn snails. They do nothing to Mylasin trumpet snails and they can't do anything to trap door snails.

 

[fredgarvin]

Crayfish or Crawdads can't be kept with fish as they eat them. The only snails I've ever seen them eat are small apple nails, and ramshorn snails. They do nothing to Mylasin trumpet snails and they can't do anything to trap door snails.

Sir, I kept my crayfish in a cummunity tank for nearly a year, with no ill results other than an unfortunate accident that ended her visit. Clip the lower part of the claw as I said, and all that's left is a digger. Just TRY to pinch someone without a thumb! I can't guareantee they will kill all types of snails as my experience was limited to the common types. However I don't see how most snails except( trumpets) can defend against the type of attack I described.

 

[Shrimper]

It does seem a bit harsh to mutilate an animal to stop it from doing what comes naturally just so you can keep it in your tank. If you really want to keep a cray then you should keep it in a species tank so you can appreciate it properly.

 

[fredgarvin]

Well, I'm told clipping the lowerpart of the claw is just like trimming a person's nails. A crustation's primitive nervous system doesn't allow them to feel intense pain anyway. She was apparently in good health because her swimmerettes egged up several times. She was alert and always active, pursuing her daily chores. At the risk of anthropromorthesing, I believed she was HAPPY! So I removed the temptation to grab and hurt a fish, should she take it into her head. Is this worse that spaying or neutering a cat or dog?What about the surgery done on Dobermans to give them that set of upright ears? What about the tail "bobbing" that's done routinely on several breeds? That's a more SERIOUS loss I would think. And these creatures have highly sensitive central nervous systems that can process and feel pain acutely. AND a tail doesn't grow back!

 

[raptorrex]

Crayfish or Crawdads can't be kept with fish as they eat them. The only snails I've ever seen them eat are small apple nails, and ramshorn snails. They do nothing to Mylasin trumpet snails and they can't do anything to trap door snails.

yes they can, though far from simple, you would be surprised how many people do it, even on this forum. and cray will eat any snail they find. most say snail problem, with whatever snail, end with the addition of a cray. indeed snails and worms are on the cray menu in the wild, wherever the cray live.

Well, I'm told clipping the claw is just like trimming a person's nails. A crustation's primitive nervous system doesn't allow them to feel intense pain anyway. She was apparently in good health because her swimmerettes egged up several times. She was alert and always active, pursuing her daily chores. At the risk of anthropromorthesing, I believed she was HAPPY! So I removed the temptation to grab and hurt a fish, should she take it into her head. Is this worse that spaying or neutering a cat or dog?What about the surgery done on Dobermans to give them that set of upright ears? What about the tail "bobbing" that's done rotinely on several breeds? That's a more SERIOUS loss I would think. And these creatures have highly sensitive central nervous systems that can process and feel pain acutely.

well, this is the first time i have ever heard of this, well when someone was serious anyway. though my experience is not counted in decades, those who i am in contact with can count their Cray keeping in many tens of years. there are several problems with this, first, cray dont kill with their claws, well not by nipping or cutting anyway, they stab and tear, and tearing can be accomplished with one section of the claw, as well as if there were two. second, as cray are not predictors, the claws are not for catching and eating pray, they are its primary form of defence and its excavation equipment. removing them will make the crays life just that bit more difficult. third, cray are very prone to bacterial infection, and if the cray is not a Australian Redclw, keeping them at tropical temperatures will simply compound this. add to this an open unhealed wound, don't take a genius to work out the result there. finally and most importantly, imo, if you cant keep a cray, without chopping things off, you have no right to keep one at all. people on this forum spend vast amounts of time, researching to ensure they keep their stock in as good an environment as can be, considering they are kept in a tank. like docking the tails of dogs, chopping a crays claws is a vile action, with no argument that can possibly condone it.

if i make a personal comment now. i have come across some strange thing in my life, but this is one of the most vile things i have come upon. do your stock and me a favour, give up keeping cray, well anything really! these actions prove that you should not be doing it, your understanding and empathy are just not in the right league. and if you believe that the cray will not notice or suffer, i would personally call your mental capability's into question too.

 

[Shrimper]

Well, I'm told clipping the lowerpart of the claw is just like trimming a person's nails. A crustation's primitive nervous system doesn't allow them to feel intense pain anyway. She was apparently in good health because her swimmerettes egged up several times. She was alert and always active, pursuing her daily chores. At the risk of anthropromorthesing, I believed she was HAPPY! So I removed the temptation to grab and hurt a fish, should she take it into her head. Is this worse that spaying or neutering a cat or dog?What about the surgery done on Dobermans to give them that set of upright ears? What about the tail "bobbing" that's done routinely on several breeds? That's a more SERIOUS loss I would think. And these creatures have highly sensitive central nervous systems that can process and feel pain acutely. AND a tail doesn't grow back!

I've never heard about dobermans having surgery to give them upright ears. As far as I can tell it would only be a dishonest breeder that would do this. A healthy doberman of good pedigree wouldn't need it

Docking dogs tails is now illegal in the UK for cruelty reasons, i'm thinking cosmetic surgery (like the ears) would probably be illegal too. Even if it was still legal and i owned a dog I still wouldn't do it. I don't agree with de-clawing cats either.

Spaying or Neutering a dog/cat is completely different from what you are suggesting. It is performed by a trained veterinary professional and doesn't stop the animal from using its limbs correctly.

 

[fredgarvin]

Doberman pinscers have naturally floppy ears. The traditional dobie you see has had his ears fixed. What I did to my Cf in no way disabled or handicapped her. The claws are NOT used for locomotion. They are ONLY for defense and feeding. In the tank she needed no defense and she got LOTS of food and molted regularly. It's true that she could no longer "grab" things with the lower part missing. However she had EIGHT other sets of smaller claws of seize things. It just enabled her to share her habitat with other species. Of COURSE spaying /neutering is done by a trained pro. It's a SERIOUS surgical proceedure. What' I did was about as serious as trimming a mustache. So no pain, no disablity, no trauma: I think that your athesthetic sensibilities are offended. So as far as I'm concerned it's just as ethical as keeping pets in the first place. Feel free to NOT clip your crayfish.



BTW I hope you're not circumsized...

 

[raptorrex]

Doberman pinscers have naturally floppy ears. The traditional dobie you see has had his ears fixed. What I did to my Cf in no way disabled or handicapped her. The claws are NOT used for locomotion. They are ONLY for defense and feeding. In the tank she needed no defense and she got LOTS of food and molted regularly. It's true that she could no longer "grab" things with the lower part missing. However she had EIGHT other sets of smaller claws of seize things. It just enabled her to share her habitat with other species. Of COURSE spaying /neutering is done by a trained pro. It's a SERIOUS surgical proceedure. What' I did was about as serious as trimming a mustache. So no pain, no disablity, no trauma: I think that your athesthetic sensibilities are offended. So as far as I'm concerned it's just as ethical as keeping pets in the first place. Feel free to NOT clip your crayfish.



BTW I hope you're not circumsized...

cropping the ears of doberman's was an US only fashion. and has always been illegal in the UK. it was purely for looks so it has no place in modern society. the reason for doing it a laughable, and for the most part puerile! and doing the same to the tail, for the most part just for showing, is possibly even worse.
as for saying the claws are not for locomotion, piffle and tripe, the cray uses its claws to move and manipulate its environment. could you do the things you do from day to day, if someone chopped off your thumbs? unless you are a biologist of some renown, not likely considering your appalling actions, i would suggest you provide some proof of the benefits and the physical reaction of the cray. this is not a web page from someone who does it. it is scientific proof that an animal that is born with a fixed number of manipulating digit, does not suffer when some fool cut them off.
if you are unable to keep a cray safely, don't keep one. chopping bits off so you can, and offering nonsensical reasons for doing so, is not the way anybody should go. especially in your case as you obviously don't have the knowledge to make these sort of decisions.
as i said give this hobby up, you simply are not cut out for it. I'm sure the potential stock you may buy would be grateful too. what's next cutting off the fins from a bala shark coz it needs too big of a tank. or pullin the teeth from a piranha coz you think it will ok eating puréed food? as you state, its bad enough keeping them in a tank, chopping bits off to suit you is totally vile.

 

[Shrimper]

Doberman pinscers have naturally floppy ears. The traditional dobie you see has had his ears fixed. What I did to my Cf in no way disabled or handicapped her. The claws are NOT used for locomotion. They are ONLY for defense and feeding. In the tank she needed no defense and she got LOTS of food and molted regularly. It's true that she could no longer "grab" things with the lower part missing. However she had EIGHT other sets of smaller claws of seize things. It just enabled her to share her habitat with other species. Of COURSE spaying /neutering is done by a trained pro. It's a SERIOUS surgical proceedure. What' I did was about as serious as trimming a mustache. So no pain, no disablity, no trauma: I think that your athesthetic sensibilities are offended. So as far as I'm concerned it's just as ethical as keeping pets in the first place. Feel free to NOT clip your crayfish.



BTW I hope you're not circumsized...

Nope not circumsized. Another thing i don't think is as common in the UK as it is in the US.

I've looked up some doberman ear pictures and i've never seen one with ears like that in the UK.

To be honest i doubt there is anything else i can say to convince you clipping the crayfish claw isn't a good idea, you seem quite intent on doing it.

 

[fredgarvin]

Shrimper, first off I'm just getting back into the hobby and a crawfish is about number 3000 on my list. Second, what is the HARM. I know you say i've "mutilated" the creature, but elaborate on the HARM it has "suffered". Don't tell me about YOUR feelings. In what way is its life negatively affected? It can't give the peace sign any more? It now needs scissors to clip it's shopping coupons? People think it's giving them "the finger"?

People have been genetically altering dogs and cats for CENTURIES. Sometimes just for appearance. Are you upset that a dachshund can't run very fast on its short little legs? Are you outraged that bulldogs and pugs have lost 50% of their sense of smell due to their genetically imposed short faces? What if I spent 20 years breeding a strain of crayfish with no lower claw? Would THAT be OK?

 

[raptorrex]

Shrimper, first off I'm just getting back into the hobby and a crawfish is about number 3000 on my list. Second, what is the HARM. I know you say i've "mutilated" the creature, but elaborate on the HARM it has "suffered". Don't tell me about YOUR feelings. In what way is its life negatively affected? It can't give the peace sign any more? It now needs scissors to clip it's shopping coupons? People think it's giving them the finger?

ok harm: the cray not only uses its claws to feed, it uses them to burrow, moving large amounts of substrate in quite short spaces of time. they move, often quite heavy, objects and they do use them for locomotion, most people who keep cray will have seen the Tarzan act, as the cray swings from an air pipe or bit of deccor to get from place to place using its claw much like hands to grip and anyone who has seem a cray climb any sort of gradient will know they use their claws to hold their weight as the move their feet forward in one go! now that's odd! it cant do any of these quite natural things, now with the exception of feed, though i will come back to this, as its claws have been clipped. and that's without even going into the open wound and the increase in the chances of bacterial infection. Pain, well i guess they don't feel it as we do, nor react in the same way. but if it can feel its there, it can sure notice if it is missing. feeding, if the cray has lost its main lifting gear, it is often forced to feed in the open, not being able to move it into the shadows. being frightened when your are eating, cant be good. if you really had to do it, removing the cutter, not the anvil would be more humane, the joint would allow the wound to close. something that does not happen till the next moult if the carapace is not cut on a joint. and the anvil section would allow the cray to lead a fairly normal life.

now please some evedence for your side?

 

[fredgarvin]

Doberman pinscers have naturally floppy ears. The traditional dobie you see has had his ears fixed. What I did to my Cf in no way disabled or handicapped her. The claws are NOT used for locomotion. They are ONLY for defense and feeding. In the tank she needed no defense and she got LOTS of food and molted regularly. It's true that she could no longer "grab" things with the lower part missing. However she had EIGHT other sets of smaller claws of seize things. It just enabled her to share her habitat with other species. Of COURSE spaying /neutering is done by a trained pro. It's a SERIOUS surgical proceedure. What' I did was about as serious as trimming a mustache. So no pain, no disablity, no trauma: I think that your athesthetic sensibilities are offended. So as far as I'm concerned it's just as ethical as keeping pets in the first place. Feel free to NOT clip your crayfish.



BTW I hope you're not circumsized...

cropping the ears of doberman's was an US only fashion. and has always been illegal in the UK. it was purely for looks so it has no place in modern society. the reason for doing it a laughable, and for the most part puerile! and doing the same to the tail, for the most part just for showing, is possibly even worse.
as for saying the claws are not for locomotion, piffle and tripe, the cray uses its claws to move and manipulate its environment. could you do the things you do from day to day, if someone chopped off your thumbs? unless you are a biologist of some renown, not likely considering your appalling actions, i would suggest you provide some proof of the benefits and the physical reaction of the cray. this is not a web page from someone who does it. it is scientific proof that an animal that is born with a fixed number of manipulating digit, does not suffer when some fool cut them off.
if you are unable to keep a cray safely, don't keep one. chopping bits off so you can, and offering nonsensical reasons for doing so, is not the way anybody should go. especially in your case as you obviously don't have the knowledge to make these sort of decisions.
as i said give this hobby up, you simply are not cut out for it. I'm sure the potential stock you may buy would be grateful too. what's next cutting off the fins from a bala shark coz it needs too big of a tank. or pullin the teeth from a piranha coz you think it will ok eating puréed food? as you state, its bad enough keeping them in a tank, chopping bits off to suit you is totally vile.

Bobo your 2 posts were the BY FAR the most insulting, abusive, and ill-mannered I havbe ever encountered on a message board...and I post regularly in several forums unrelated to aquariums. I suggest you learn how to disagree with someone without name calling and demonizing. To my knowledge 20 years ago when I HAD a cray, clipping was standard practice. If you disagree, fine. But do it like man, not an angry child. For your imformation my cray did not suffer any ill effects and was healthy and active right up until a visting neighbor child pulled her from the tank while I wasn't home. Go join PETA if your upset at animal alteration. Oh wait . That's right. They would take your crays away from you given the power.



BTW I never respond more than once to a hate-filled poster.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Well, I'm told clipping the lowerpart of the claw is just like trimming a person's nails.

By whom exactly?

A crustation's primitive nervous system doesn't allow them to feel intense pain anyway.

That's debatable, and even if it is true, it's hardly the point. Punching a paralysed person who can't feel pain is as bad as punching someone who can feel it, and to my mind using 'oh, well, they can't feel pain anyway' as an excuse is the mark of someone unable to uphold their side of the debate.

So I removed the temptation to grab and hurt a fish, should she take it into her head.

There's no 'temptation' about it, the instinct of a crayfish is to grab and eat anything that looks edible and eat it. Not to go 'ooh, no, I really shouldn't... But I will anyway'.

Is this worse that spaying or neutering a cat or dog?What about the surgery done on Dobermans to give them that set of upright ears? What about the tail "bobbing" that's done routinely on several breeds? That's a more SERIOUS loss I would think. And these creatures have highly sensitive central nervous systems that can process and feel pain acutely. AND a tail doesn't grow back!

What's that got to do with the price of butter? A completely irrelevant comparison.

I'm sure I'll add some more tomorrow, but I'm too tired to be as eloquent as I usually am...

 

[raptorrex]

but still not a shred of evedence that your stance has any basis in fact!
if you feel so badly about my posts, report me! if you think i have been hard on you, you should read my other posts!

boboboy
as i said give this hobby up, you simply are not cut out for it.