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Stocking plan

lee_k

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So I'm getting there with my stock plan (I think)

The tank is a Jewel Lido 200 LED with a few upgrades - 600l pump replaced with a 1000l pump, also added some of the cartridges - Cirax, Carbax and Amorax into the filter

Sanded tank with plants, few pieces of bog wood and rocks.

The fish plan

2x Angel fish - This is the bit i'm worried about obviously its a tall tank so angels were the plan all along, but getting 2 that get along is a worry. I guess I just have to see an if I get issues tank one back and have a single angelfish?

2x Female Dwarf Gourami
1x Male Dwarf Gourami

2x Ram (Probably Electric Blue)

5 or 6x Cory

2x Hoplo cat (will rehome if they get too big... or convince the wife for another bigger tank)

6x Shoaling fish - may need some help with what, some form of tetra (neon?) - But not sure if they'll become angel food!

I've filled it in on the AQAdvisor calculator and got the green light - also discussed it at a few separate fish shops now.

Thoughts?

Also a bit of advice around PH - Mine is testing really high, around 8.2 - i've got bogwood in (not sure that actually works) - anything else I can do or should I be looking into RO?

Lee
 

essjay

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My concern is the shape of the Lido. They are very tall and thin. The Lido 200 may be 200 litres (53 gallons) but the footprint is just 71 x 51 cm (28 x 20 inches).
Angels need a footprint of at least 100 x 40 cm, and although the Lido is bigger than that front to back, it is a lot narrower in the width.
Hoplos need an even longer tank of at least 120 cm. It is never a good idea to buy juvenile fish with the intention of getting a bigger tank as they grow. What happens if something gets in the way of that bigger tank?

Both of these fish need calm water so the filter pump upgrade is not good for these fish as it will crate more water flow than the pump that originally came with the tank.

It will also create too strong a flow for gouramis, though the tank size is fine for them.

Cories should be in a group bigger than 6, the more the merrier with these fish. You do have sand on the bottom, not gravel?
Rams need warmer water than most fish, certainly warmer than cories can cope with. The two are not compatible on those grounds alone.


What is the hardness of your water? That is a bit more important than pH. All the fish you have listed need soft water. if yuors is hard, yes you will need to mix it with RO to make it softer.


Finally, just because AqAdvisor and shops say it's OK doesn't mean it is OK. Shops are notorious for giving rubbish advice and calculators like AqAdvisor cannot be programmed to take every aspect of setting up a community into account.
 

PheonixKingZ

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Yes, I just played around with it, and it said that 10 Zebra Danios would be good in a 10 gallon tank, as @essjay said, just because it says it’s ok, doesn’t mean it is. :)
 

essjay

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Most of these stocking calculators ignore the behaviour of the fish and only consider the size. It would be possible to keep danio sized fish in 10 gallons if it wasn't for the way they swim. I have read comments by people who have them in large tanks that danios can swim from one side of a 4 foot tank to the other in less than 1 second.
 
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lee_k

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Yes were a hard water area - so guess that means i better get looking at RO!

I thought more powerful filter was better that's the only reason i upgraded the pump - i guess i can reduce the flow by aiming the outlet at the glass?

When looking around i saw loads of people using the LIDO 200 for angels due to it being tall

I already have a bigger tank (although it has 2 6" musk turtles in) - and that tank is 48x15x15. When getting the hoplo what i'd read suggested it was fine in that tank given it only gets to 6" (Alot of sites suggested smaller in aquariums) but a bigger tank or taking them back when there big is an option

Yes this tank has sand in

Everytime I see a post or read one it seems that unless someone wants a Betta and some neons there's a problem - maybe that's the answer!

What would everyone recommend for stocking?
 

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I'd like to comment on something raised in two posts. Please understand that this is not an attack on you for suggesting it. But other members, many of who will have less knowledge will read posts in this or that thread, and accept that what is posted is likely OK, unless the misunderstanding is corrected. That's why I spend so much time doing just that.

2x Angel fish - This is the bit i'm worried about obviously its a tall tank so angels were the plan all along, but getting 2 that get along is a worry. I guess I just have to see an if I get issues tank one back and have a single angelfish?
but a bigger tank or taking them back when there big is an option
The problem here is that we are dealing with living creatures. They have expectations, requirements and needs respecting their environment, and when these are not met they suffer stress and if not improved this becomes chronic and impacts their physiology, weakening their immune system, causing even more stress...and so on. In short, the fish suffer and are not healthy and once this occurs there is no reversal. None of us wants to see this, but it is the inevitable result. The only way to avoid it is to understand the fish's expectations and requirements and provide for them from the first day.

Larger tanks may or may not happen down the road; many of us have had this experience.

Taking fish back or giving them away when trouble results...this is (to be honest) inhumane. The fish deserve better. The conditions in the tank affect the fish permanently. It deserves a proper environment from the start so it can grow and develop naturally, in good health, and--for whatever the word may mean to the fish--be happy.

Yesterday in another thread I mentioned something I came across a few years ago, and it gets to the heart of the matter. The fish did not ask to be collected and taken out of its home (or did not ask to be caught and removed from its rearing tank/pond), and then to be bagged and transported and dumped into a store tank with always less than suitable conditions, and then chased around and caught and bagged and finally released into your home tank. The fish did not make those choices, we the aquarists did. We became responsible for that fish's life from now until it dies. If we are not prepared to at least try to provide what the fish is programmed to expect of its environment, then we have no right to be acquiring the fish.

I learned a maxim years ago and I never do otherwise: I will only acquire a fish if I now have the necessary tank environment to accommodate it for its entire natural expected life.
 
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lee_k

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And theres the mad part - cause i did my research some of which on this very forum:

https://www.fishforums.net/threads/angelfish-in-a-30-gallon.346547/

And whilst I get its not great to take things back to a fish shop, i also think its a bit necessary in the hobby. Common recommendation is to get 5 or 6 small angels - then when 2 pair return the other 4. I want to avoid this if I can.

I also think there is a place in the hobby for all tanks, not everyone has a 6ft tank - and for those that do they have big fish, so they need that full size angel or silver dollar because the baby would just get eaten in the tank?

Obviously if they are left too long to the point there growth is effected or they stunt, that's different - but to grow to a size that's comfortable for their environment, surely that's a requirement of the hobby.

What stocking would people recommend in this tank? - And what fish as a feature fish, I really wanted a angel fish - i know the extra volume of water means more stability but the idea of the taller tank was mainly around a angel fish and what i was recommended by the shop!

Lee
 
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lee_k

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Sorry about all the questions!

The bit about the ram and the corys not getting on in terms of temp.

I run my tank at 26c which is top end of the cory temp (although there very active and seemingly happy - they also dont seem to group together much at all (currently 4, will add more but adding a few fish at a time due to be being a new car)) but within the range of the ram according to the site i was recommended on here.

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/mikrogeophagus-altispinosus/

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/corydoras-julii/

Lee
 
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lee_k

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Naughts

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My only experience with angels is buying two little ones that grew and grew. They ate all their tank mates. I gave them to a friend's dad and they then monopolized his tank for years! Lol.

But I just wanted to make sure you were reading Deanasue's current thread. It's in active topics, tropical discussions called more questions about angels. There is a similar debate about how many angels so it should be useful.
 

essjay

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One of your problems is your tank because it is such an unusual shape. You cannot go by any fish profile which just gives a tank size as volume. Yes you do have the volume, but it is a very narrow tank and that should also be taken into consideration. This is what Bryon means when he says we need to understand a fish's expectations and requirements.

Angels need a tank longer than 71c,/28 inches. It does have the height angels need but that's all.

Most shop workers give terrible advice. Never believe anything they say.



For those who don't know what the tank in question is, here is a link to the manufactuere's website
https://www.juwel-aquarium.co.uk/Products/Aquariums/Lido-Line-LED/Lido-200-LED/#sticky-navigationbar
 
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lee_k

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Thanks Essjay, yes i know what Byron means and this is the problem with the internet when that angel site is saying a 24x12x12 tank can house 2 angels - that's narrower than mine, and not far off half the depth (again regardless of the height). Although i'm still yet to see a fish ever swim just in a straight line from one end to another so i would of thought surface area is more important than length, width, depth or total capacity tbh. Just total amount of room to move.

Yes that's the tank in the link - few youtube vids gives a better idea of depth (regardless of height) and they show angels in it.




I think its a little unfair to say that about shop workers, yes in some of the bigger brands i agree (Although the staff there may enjoy it or be big into the hobby themselves it should be added). But i'm lucky to have 2 fish shops near me one of which is a family run fish only store that's been going for over 30 years, some of there own tanks in the shop are fantastic. I think i'd trust them and they seem really knowledgeable when talking to them.

I'm not 100% on the angels due to what you and Byron have said but its still very confusing when you see and read so many different things online - including on this very forum https://www.fishforums.net/threads/lido-200.443102/ - so i did my research, made my mind up and then get told it does work :huh::lol: - i guess that's all part of the hobby! - there's not much right and wrong just lots of opinion, but everyone just wants the best really and that's all that matters :friends::friends:


I'm still intrigued as to what people would recommend as a centre piece fish in the tank, or how'd they'd stock it before I go ahead with any decisions.

Providing i'm still in this hobby in the future (this is about my 3rd tank so i keep coming back!!) i'm sure the bigger tank will arrive because that's just how this hobby works isn't it :)

Lee
 

essjay

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The only place I would go for reliable information is Seriously Fish http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/pterophyllum-scalare/
You will see that this says "an aquarium measuring 100 x 40 x 50 cm should be the smallest considered". That's a tank with a swimming length of 100cm, not 71 cm.


Even the most knowledgable shop worker cannot know every detail about every fish. It is the fishkeeper's responsibility to research on well informed websites. This means websites written by ichthyologists (like Seriously Fish), not a website set up by someone with little knowledge who thinks they are an expert.
People who have been keeping fish for a long time could well not have kept up to date. A 24 inch tank may have been acceptable years ago but we now know it is not.




However, this is your tank and you can keep any fish you want in there even if it is not suitable.
 
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lee_k

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Yes i read on that website, along with about 6 or 7 others :blink: which managed to come up with 3 or 4 different answers between them.

100cm x 40cm would even rule out a 3ft - 36" x 12" (91cm x 30cm) too as its not quite big enough - mad when you think about it.

Where its odd for me and probably why i'm not getting it as quick as i should is I've had full grown angels before in a previous tank and as i sit here now i can see the Lido 200 and the 122cm x 38cm x 38cm tank we have turtles in, and if i picture a couple of angels in one - in the turtle tank i see them as uncomfy or awkward purely down to the lack of width - and lack of height although it is 10cm to short and maybe thats whats making it look smaller.

Lee
 
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Byron

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There is conflicting information in this hobby, that is unavoidable. Anyone with the money (and I suppose technical savvy) can set up a website and become an "expert" overnight, though he/she may in fact be a complete idiot when it comes to fish. And store staff are almost never trained to give out advice [I've only ever heard of one store somewhere in the mid-eastern USA that actually had training courses for staff and they had to pass them before being hired]. I was lucky twice in finding a local store owned and staffed by hobbyists. Yet none of them gave answers like experts, and most always had references to fall back on. I have a couple of local stores where I will be asked by the owner to respond to another customer's question on fish species or habitats.

There is only one solution...know who is behind the information. There are sites run/administered by biologists and ichthyologists. I know either personally or by reputation the owner of every site I use. There are not many of them, and not surprisingly, their advice on a topic rarely if ever differs.

And experience is not the guide; someone keeping fish for 30-40 years can still not have a clue. Training and research; professional ichthyologists, biologists, microbiologists and habitat biologists are the sources of reliable information, and these are the only people I bother consulting when I do research.

One does not (I hope) go to someone standing on the street corner for medical advice, one looks up a trained and qualified doctor. This is no different.

EDIT. After posting this, I went back over previous posts and came across post #9 with the link to the "about angelfish" site. You cannot trust anything on that site, the whole explanation of how many fish per tank size is not reliable at all. You do not decide on fish numbers solely on the basis of the fish size and the water volume/tank size. There are the species requirements to be taken into account. These are not even mentioned in passing. I can guarantee that if anyone used that advice on its own, within a few months they would be asking why their fish are sick/attacking or whatever.
 
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