Some Questions For My First Tank

[tallsmartman]

Hey, I'm in the process of planning out my first tank. (Since I was a kid anyway)

Any help on these questions would be greatly appreciated.

1. I understand that I need to have a tank "cycled" before I fully stock it, so the appropriate amount of bacteria is there. I have read up on the fish-less cycling and the cycling with a couple "sacrificial fish." Since I am not experienced, I am not sure which is the best way to do it. However, while skimming through the forums I have found people recommending "BIO-Spira." Is Bio-Spira a fish-less cycle that doesn't require putting ammonia in the water?

2. When I do get my tank cycled, I read you are supposed to do a 25% water change every week. Do you leave the fish in the tank for this? And how do you treat the water you are about to introduce into the tank? Do you just make sure its a similar temperature and treat it for chlorine and hardness? Or do I need to do something similar to the cycling process?

3. The tank I will be working with will be 20g. I would like about 3 or 4 mollies to be what I build the tank around, but I would like some other fish to add some variety (Maybe some neon tetras and a couple of platys). I found a website http/www.elmersaquarium.com/c106community3livebearer.htm where it lists some good compatible fish for different communities. I was wondering if you experts here feel this is a correct list?

Like I said, I would like to have 3 or 4 mollies to be the main fish, but I would love to have like 5 to 7 little neon tetras as well. Does this leave room for 1 or 2 platys with out overstocking it? Is 3 mollies with 7 neon tetras already overstocked for a 20 gallon tank? I have read the 1 inch per gallon rule, but I want to be sure. On one hand its a nice visual to have a full tank but the fishes health of course comes first. And I do realize that there should be brackish water for the mollies. Ive heard 2 tablespoons every five gallons, and Ive heard there should be more?

Anyways, sorry for being long winded, any help would be greatly appreciated, if any of these questions seem dumb or obvious, realize that I am a beginner

-MW

 

[bailey0789]

Im probly gonna get yelled at for giving you bad advice but... I filled my ten gallon with the outside hose run up through my window. Put the water treatment in, ran the filter and heater for a day. Put 5 neon Tetra's in and a couple Dalmation Molly's and had a bacteria bloom the next day. That went away in about two or three days. All is good. Added some Guppy's and Black Skirt's and everything is going well. Im going to test my water at Petsmart tomorrow, make sure the ammonia level isnt too high. One of the petsmart workers said that might be why it was clearing up. IDK, they all have something different to say. I guess we'll see how informed she is when i test my water tomorrow.

 

[tallsmartman]

when did you start this tank?

 

[arobinson1984]

Hi,

I'll try answer some of your questions for you.

1. You have 2 options when it comes to cycling, fishless or fish-in. A fishless cycle has more advantages over a fish-in cycle in the way that it is kinder to fish as there wont be any fish exposed to harmful substances and it is also a hell of a lot less work for yourself. The only drawback to a fishless cycle is sat looking at an empty tank for 6-8 weeks which can get boring but believe me its worth it when you save yourself a whole lot of hassle.

If you choose a fish-in cycle then the aim is to keep ammonia and nitrite levels down to a minimal amount, which is basically zero or a maximum recommended amount of 0.25ppm (parts per million) any amount of ammonia and nitrite causes permanent damage to fish, ammonia damages the gills whereas nitrite damages the nervous system. In order to keep the levels down you would have to perform at least 1 large water change (normally about 70% or more) and sometimes even 2 or 3 water changes every day for 6-8 weeks which can get quite frustrating and tiresome.

I have performed both a fish-in and fishless cycle and would only ever do fishless cycles from now on, its a lot easier and kinder to the fish. There is no such thing as 'sacrifical fish' and if you think along them terms than fishkeeping probably isnt for you, a fish is a living creature, the same as a cat or dog.

Whichever method you choose you will need a good LIQUID based test kit such as the API freshwater master kit or individual saliferts tests, do not rely on your local fish store to test the water for you. You need to be able to test your own water 2-3 times a day.

Bio-spira isnt an alternative to cycling, it is simply an aid and although it may have some effect, the majority of cycle 'aids' rarely make any difference and are much better off saving your money.


2. Once the tank is cycled then weekly water changes are essential to keep a healthy tank. The amount can quite often depend on the species of fish you keep, I personally do a 75% change every week as I have some sensitive fish that require good conditions. You would keep your fish in the tank when performing a water change. You basically remove x amount of water, not forgetting to clean the gravel/sand of waste, then replace with fresh water that is roughly temperature matched. Always treat fresh water with conditioner to remove chlorine and chloramines as well as any iron in your water supply. Once the tank is cycled, the benefical bacteria lives in the filter, not the water so you dont have to do anything special 'cycle wise' when performing water changes.

3. Depending on which cycling route you take, if you perform a fishless cycle, onc complete you can fully stock the tank in one go. If you go with a fish-in cycle then you would need to add fish slowly, 2-3 fish every 1-2 weeks. Neon tetras do not do well in new tanks even once cycled, they really need a more established tank so its recommended they only go in tanks that have been running and fully cycled for 6 months+

Mollies would be ok, although they are ideally a brackish fish which the neons/platies arent. Many people have successfully kept mollies in pure freshwater tanks but they do thrive better with added salt.

Hope this helps a little and if you want anything in more detail, just ask


Andy

 

[Assaye]

arobinson1984 has covered things pretty well plus they have links in their signature to the essentials of cycling.

I would only suggest mollies if you are willing to try a brackish tank or if you have hard water in your area that has a high pH (as mineral heavy water can act as a sort of substiute for salt). If you don't want to try brackish (which is more than just chucking some salt in) and you have soft water or a low-neutral pH, then don't think about mollies.

Perhaps swordtails would be a good alternative?

 

[tallsmartman]

Thanks for the feedback. And don't worry, I was quoting "sacrificial fish" from something I read about fish-in cycles. Apparently the person who wrote it was very against fish-in cycles and wrote his guide to reflect that.

And I've been reconsidering which type of fish I would like to have as the main attraction. I may end up not going with mollies or the brackish water. I may go with neons being the main attraction with some cories or platys in there as well. And if I'm understanding everything correctly, I would need the tank to not only be fully cycled, but also have other fish in there for a while before I introduce the neons.

So I guess at this point I should get the tank cycling (Do you reccomend pure ammonia drops?) then get some cories or platys after it's been cycled, then wait another while before the neons are put in.

Have I missed anything?

-MW

 

[Assaye]

Sounds about right. The information in the Resource Centre will get you sorted.

I would recommend ammonia drops - much easier to control and less risk of introducing toxins (as the "rotting shrimp" method can).

In 20 gallons you could have 10 neons, 5 platies and 6-8 corys. Could possibly even have a bit more in there if your filtration is up to it and you have plenty of natural decor.

 

[rdd1952]

All is good. Added some Guppy's and Black Skirt's and everything is going well. Im going to test my water at Petsmart tomorrow, make sure the ammonia level isnt too high. One of the petsmart workers said that might be why it was clearing up. IDK, they all have something different to say. I guess we'll see how informed she is when i test my water tomorrow.

If you haven't been testing your water, how do you know that all is well and good? In actuality, ANY ammonia or nitrite reading in a tank with fish in it is too high, whether that be .1 ppm or 5 ppm, it indicates that the tank isn't cycled and there is a problem.

 

[Assaye]

All is good. Added some Guppy's and Black Skirt's and everything is going well. Im going to test my water at Petsmart tomorrow, make sure the ammonia level isnt too high. One of the petsmart workers said that might be why it was clearing up. IDK, they all have something different to say. I guess we'll see how informed she is when i test my water tomorrow.

If you haven't been testing your water, how do you know that all is well and good? In actuality, ANY ammonia or nitrite reading in a tank with fish in it is too high, whether that be .1 ppm or 5 ppm, it indicates that the tank isn't cycled and there is a problem.

Absolutely ^

Bailey, you can't tell whether the tank is going well unless you know the detailed readings for ammonia and nitrite levels and have reason to believe there are no toxins in the tank. Petsmart is NOT a reliable source of information

 

[waterdrop]

Hi tallsmartman and Welcome to TFF!

I agree with the good advice above from arobinson and assaye. The members here are great and will get you going in the right direction with your fishless cycle.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[tallsmartman]

Alright, sounds good. And thanks to all of you, I'm beginning the cycling process tonight... wish me luck