Soil Substrate

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Aspen35

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Iā€™ve been getting into live plants, so Iā€™m redoing a 10 gallon that currently has just gravel as a substrate.
The tank would only have snails, maybe a couple guppies (long after itā€™s been cycled completely.)
Iā€™ve read that using organic potting mix works as a nutrient layer at the bottom, but does regular potting mix work? What does the fertilizer in it do to harm the livestock? It would only be a really thin layer, but Iā€™m worried about how safe it is.

Iā€™ve also read that the wetting agent used can be harmful.
 

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Organic potting soil will leach out ammonia. Most people who used OPS will usually cap it off with either sand, gravel, or any other substrate. The amount of soil should be about an inch or an inch and a half. As for the cap, it should be about an inch and a half or two inches.
 
There is no benefit to using soil in aquariums, and in fact you normally have to replace it after a couple of years because it goes anaerobic. You can also have ammonia problems for months after adding it to the tank.

If you want to add anything to the soil use red or orange clay and make balls of clay about 10mm in diamtere. Push them into the gravel under the plants and leave it at that. Then add a liquid iron based aquarium plant fertiliser to the water.
 
What is the best thing I can use for plants? I just want to cap with sand, possibly gravel, but have a layer of nutrients underneath. What substrate will work well for this? Thank you for the help.
 
Ive used soil for a "dirted" tank. You dont want to use anything with wetting agents.
Try to find an organic soil then sift as much of the chunks of wood and organic stuff out of it. Avoid soils with poop in it as itll just cause lots of problems. After sifting bake it in the sun some people will bake it in the oven, apparently it mineralizes it. Before putting in the soil put down some lava rock. Just like a bag youd by for bbq. Lava rock is inert but will provide pockets from keeping the soil from compacting. Then put your baked soil into tank through a sifter to avoid any more wood and moss chips. Need about an inch of soil, wet it so its like a thick mud then cap it with sand or gravel about 2 inches. All the nutrients will leach into the water and probably wont be suitable for fish for a couple months and once youve done that in about 2 years youll have to rip it all out and replace it because as others have mentioned it will be anaerobic and useless except for creating poisonous gas pockets. My plants did super well in a dirted tank but its an unnecessary hassle. Honestly its much easier to get sand or gravel and put some root tabs in it. I wouldnt do the clay balls either. The reasoning behind clay balls is to make iron available but iron in the form of clay hasnt shown to do much as its not in a form for plants to readily take. Root tabs like seachem root tabs are derived from ferrous gluconate which has shown to be more accessible to plants. Grab some play sand and some root tabs and a comprehensive liquid fert and make sure ypur light is good and youll be golden. A 50 lb bag of play sand at home depot is like 7 bucks and a pack of root tabs is 10 bucks for 10 tabs and you wont have to replace the substrate in two years or worry about it leeching weird stuff into your water, just replacing the root tabs every few months.
 
I agree with Colin that there is really no benefit to soil in an aquarium. There is however some serious detriments, like the ammonia which can leech out for up to six months and kill fish, invertebrates...not worth it for no little subsequent benefit.

The "fertilizer" in the soil in the photo should not be used in an aquarium because this will cause algae issues. It is intended for terrestrial plants which have a slightly different requirement when it comes to nutrients--primarily, they need nitrate and aquarium plants never do.

Aquarium plants will grow just as well in an inert sand or fine gravel with (not always needed) substrate fertilizer tabs or liquid additives. It depends upon the plants, the light, your GH, and the fish load.
 
I agree with Colin that there is really no benefit to soil in an aquarium.

Do you mean no overall benefit? Surely the fact that you are providing nutrients for plants in an otherwise barren tank is a benefit? I know you can add these in other ways but that doesn't alter the fact that rooting plants will grow better with a soil substrate under sand or gravel.
 
It is just after awhile the soil wears out and has little nutritional value for the plants and may even cause a problem or you have to replace it. Better to use sand or gravel and root tabs.
 
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Before putting in the soil put down some lava rock. Just like a bag youd by for bbq. Lava rock is inert but will provide pockets from keeping the soil from compacting.

What exactly do you mean by this? Will a finer lava rock work, a thin layer underneath the sand?
 

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What exactly do you mean by this? Will a finer lava rock work, a thin layer underneath the sand?
Id use bigger pieces like walnut size pieces so you have big spaces between the sand, Crushed lava that small might as well be gravel.the thought behind laying the lava rock is it keeps the soil from compacting. You dont need the whole bottom covered with lava rock just spread some of the bigger ones out with space between for the soil to fall between. Its not a necessity but helps.
 
Do you mean no overall benefit? Surely the fact that you are providing nutrients for plants in an otherwise barren tank is a benefit? I know you can add these in other ways but that doesn't alter the fact that rooting plants will grow better with a soil substrate under sand or gravel.

I went into this quite a bit (research I mean), I have Diana Walstad's book, and I belong to her forum. I've read her articles, and those of others who are expert in this. I've discussed it with Tom Barr. Diana herself admits that the only real benefit to soil is the initial CO2 release that provides a good supply of carbon. It takes a few months, depending, for an inert sand or fine gravel substrate to reach this level of CO2 production, but as she has written, after one year, there is no difference between soil or inert sand substrates with respect to plants.

Most of us can supply the necessary light, and supplements of nutrients are fairly easy to deal with via substrate tabs or comprehensive liquid fertilizer. But CO2 relies on that naturally produced within the aquarium (for those of us not using diffused CO2, that is another story). The decomposition of organics in the substrate is the priary source of natural CO2; respiration of fish and plants and some species of bacteria also supply CO2 but usually far less than what can result from a healthy substrate. Once the tank is established, this is fairly easy to balance.

Using soil that contains organics gets this CO2 going faster. But on this point alone, I have certainly never seen any problems, and I have torn down and replaced substrates so often I have a pretty good idea. The initial influx of ammonia which can last up to six months, and which will kill fish and plants, is a serious detriment to soil, and one I cannot see any reason to undergo. Especially when after all is said and done, there is no benefit of soil over sand going forward.

As for other nutrients in the soil, that obviously depends upon what is in the soil to begin with. Most of these organic soils are intended to supply nutrients to terrestrial plants, and that is not the same as aquatic plants which have somewhat different requirements. And I am skeptical that substrate-rooted plants will actually be any better with soil or in sand with substrate tabs. When I look back over the years of setting up tanks and the incredible (to me) explosion of plant growth from the first week, I get even more skeptical. I was convinced about 10 years ago to try a plant substrate. I choose Flourite. I set up my 70g with this substrate, planted it, and put in the fish. I ran that tank for two years before I tore it down and dumped the so-called plant substrate in a hole in the back garden; complete waste of money. I reset the tank with play sand, same plants, and a couple months later I could not tell the difference. And the fish were happier.

Plant nutrients come from tyhe water, with every plant, aquatic or terrestrial. The nutrients in the "soil" must dissolve into the water to be taken up by the roots. It doesn't matter to the plants how the nutrients get into the water. I see no point in risking the fish when there are risk-free methods that are just as good.
 

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