Small scale breeding project.

[SAChichlidLover]

Hi!
So I thought I'd discuss a new project I'll hopefully have all ready and set up by the start of next year. I would love to hear your opinions and advice on a few species of fish and the whole idea I have going on here
I have ended up becoming more and more obsessed with this hobby and how awesome it is to keep fish to the point where I am apllying for a job at my lfs to make some money to half fund this project and for some income in general and my plan is to set up 6x 66gal tanks to not only keep but breed certain species of fish to sell and more importantly learn more about and take care of these species however I will have to start small and set up one tank and keep building up from there. The fish in question would be Yellow lab cichlids (Electric yellow cichlids), Convict cichlids, Apistogramma (Still deciding on which morph), Sword tails, Geophagus Red Head Tapajos and still deciding on a few more! Got to say this is the best hobby and I cant believe how rewarding it is to just be here. The main reason for this project is to be able to keep and maintain these fish as without breeding and selling I wouldn't be able to even think about setting up two more tanks nevermind 6! Luckily I have lots of time on my hands which is how this idea first came to mind, any thoughts/suggestions?

 

[Back in the fold]

Excellent ! Admirable goals, however, be advised that making money from this great hobby is seldom done. Be content with keeping fish healthy and breeding successively harder species. The Convict cichlids are a great first cichlid. Success is almost certain but you will end up with many of them and nowhere to unload the fry. If I was thinking money, I'd go with African Rift Lake cichlids. Become proficient at culturing and keeping a variety of live foods for the fry. Paramecium, microworms, vinegar eels, newly hatched brine shrimp and Grindal worms. All of those are easy to keep and the variety of live foods will help you grow out exceptional fish. Good luck.

 

[SAChichlidLover]

Excellent ! Admirable goals, however, be advised that making money from this great hobby is seldom done. Be content with keeping fish healthy and breeding successively harder species. The Convict cichlids are a great first cichlid. Success is almost certain but you will end up with many of them and nowhere to unload the fry. If I was thinking money, I'd go with African Rift Lake cichlids. Become proficient at culturing and keeping a variety of live foods for the fry. Paramecium, microworms, vinegar eels, newly hatched brine shrimp and Grindal worms. All of those are easy to keep and the variety of live foods will help you grow out exceptional fish. Good luck.

Thanks so much for your advice! I was going to focus on the mbuna lab morphs from lake malawi as I have always loved the striking colours on them. I will definetly take your advice on the live food and I will definetly put my all into keeping these fish healthy as at the end of the day thats whats most important

 

[Wills]

Sounds really good fun Very jealous!

The best advice I can give is dont do Convicts or Yellow Labs haha! They are the most common cichlids around and I dont think you would be able to even give them away. Swordtails fall into the same category (unless you get an unusual strain or wild type like Montezuma).

The apistos could be a good choice but dont do regular Cacatuoides for the above reasons. I'd probably go for one of the tank bred colourful strains of Cacatuoides, Hongsloi or Aggazzizi. Again with the Geos, Red Heads are available very easily commercially now so I'd go for one that people really want like Winemilleri, Sveni or even Satanoperca species.

If I was doing 6 tanks of fish to breed with the hope of breaking even at least 2 of them would be L number plecos, Blue Phantoms, Green Phantoms, something like that, something you can buy for £30-£50 each and that doesnt grow to a huge size. With a view to get a colony of 6-7 fish producing 10 or so young every few months.

Cichlid wise, instead of the Convicts I would do one of the rarer Cryptoheros types like Nanoluteus, Panamensis, Myrnae, Septemfasciatus - hard to track down to start with but achievable and worth it. Other central americans could be worth pursing as they breed fast and easy I'm thinking something like Oscura Heterospila, good quality Salvini or even Electric Blue Jack Dempsey. Fish that are very colourful, interesting and dont grow massive.

Think that gives you your 6 then 2x Plecs, 1x Apisto, 1x Geo, 1x Cryptohero and 1x mid sized CA. I cant really advise on Africans though as I dont know enough species to know what would be worthwhile.

The live food advice above is really good, also worth mentioning you will probably need quite a few 2-3 foot tanks to raise the fry in away from the parents as they will need lots of water changes to get them growing nice and quick

Wills

 

[Back in the fold]

cichlids generally start out on newly hatched baby brine shrimp (BBS) so first food is easy. Other fish with smaller fry need tiny food. A variety is good so you don't get some funny deficiency from feeding only one kind of food. Everyone has a theory about that and recommend lots of different things. You feed what you have and try to get some variety. That's all you can do. Don't neglect getting them used to prepared foods as that is what most pet shop customers feed. Having them on prepared foods covers you also if you lose your live food cultures for whatever reasons. A scud (gammarus) culture would be good for cichlids. Give them something to hunt.

 

[Retired Viking]

I had started with 8 African Cichlid and ended up with over 50 fry that made it to adulthood in the first year or so. Like @Back in the fold said success is almost certain and I ended up giving them all away to friends and the LFS.

 

[SAChichlidLover]

Sounds really good fun Very jealous!

The best advice I can give is dont do Convicts or Yellow Labs haha! They are the most common cichlids around and I dont think you would be able to even give them away. Swordtails fall into the same category (unless you get an unusual strain or wild type like Montezuma).

The apistos could be a good choice but dont do regular Cacatuoides for the above reasons. I'd probably go for one of the tank bred colourful strains of Cacatuoides, Hongsloi or Aggazzizi. Again with the Geos, Red Heads are available very easily commercially now so I'd go for one that people really want like Winemilleri, Sveni or even Satanoperca species.

If I was doing 6 tanks of fish to breed with the hope of breaking even at least 2 of them would be L number plecos, Blue Phantoms, Green Phantoms, something like that, something you can buy for £30-£50 each and that doesnt grow to a huge size. With a view to get a colony of 6-7 fish producing 10 or so young every few months.

Cichlid wise, instead of the Convicts I would do one of the rarer Cryptoheros types like Nanoluteus, Panamensis, Myrnae, Septemfasciatus - hard to track down to start with but achievable and worth it. Other central americans could be worth pursing as they breed fast and easy I'm thinking something like Oscura Heterospila, good quality Salvini or even Electric Blue Jack Dempsey. Fish that are very colourful, interesting and dont grow massive.

Think that gives you your 6 then 2x Plecs, 1x Apisto, 1x Geo, 1x Cryptohero and 1x mid sized CA. I cant really advise on Africans though as I dont know enough species to know what would be worthwhile.

The live food advice above is really good, also worth mentioning you will probably need quite a few 2-3 foot tanks to raise the fry in away from the parents as they will need lots of water changes to get them growing nice and quick

Wills

Haha, I'm extremely excited.
You do have a point, I'd end up with about 20 tanks full of fish I've had to keep because everyone would already have them haha. With the sword tails I might look at trial and error with creating a whole new colour morph although it would take alot of time and effort (plus the most likely failure all together) but the fact that they breed like there's no tomorrow leaves tonnes of room for success and who knows I might end up with a fry batch with either one of the parents patterns or an unusual one!

Apistos I totally agree with you, some of them are way too common to even bat an eyelid about breeding for these purposes but I'll look into the strains you've kindly recommended to me (fingers crossed I can trace a batch). I agree with the red heads too but my only concern with satanoperca is the size of the adults as I was hoping to purchase a batch of the same size tanks to save a decent amount of money however I'll definetly try and work something out. If not I could always look at breading threadfin acara instead as I've not managed to trace a farm with tank bred threadfins as far as I've seen most (if not all) are wild caught which means I would have to replicate the environment almost exactly and again trial and error to see if I could pull it off.

I love your CA cichlid replacement option for the convicts, I'm definetly looking at the Salvini option considering where I live (uk) I haven't once seen a salvini in any fish store or warehouse I've been too! Possibly bad luck or maybe they're not as common round here either way would be extremely easy to see if tropco can get hold of a few.

Plecs is a definite! I will look at the more pricey varieties to see if I could find a deal on a pair somewhere meaning I could sell the fry for much cheaper prices aswell.

I'll definetely look at tanks to raise my fry in (might even find some preowned ones online for around £40 a few scratches can always be patched up)

 

[SAChichlidLover]

cichlids generally start out on newly hatched baby brine shrimp (BBS) so first food is easy. Other fish with smaller fry need tiny food. A variety is good so you don't get some funny deficiency from feeding only one kind of food. Everyone has a theory about that and recommend lots of different things. You feed what you have and try to get some variety. That's all you can do. Don't neglect getting them used to prepared foods as that is what most pet shop customers feed. Having them on prepared foods covers you also if you lose your live food cultures for whatever reasons. A scud (gammarus) culture would be good for cichlids. Give them something to hunt.

I'll note all this down actually thanks so much for the tips! What prepared foods would you suggest to try and lean them towards? I feed my current cichlids a very mixed diet full of protein and the occasional greens to try and get the healthiest diet

 

[SAChichlidLover]

I had started with 8 African Cichlid and ended up with over 50 fry that made it to adulthood in the first year or so. Like @Back in the fold said success is almost certain and I ended up giving them all away to friends and the LFS.

That's awesome! Gives me more motivation with cichlids!

 

[Back in the fold]

Prepared foods are whatever you buy at the pet shop that your fish like. I got along great for years on the standard flakes and frozen brine shrimp diet. There's so much more variety now that it is almost impossible not to have something good to feed. Big cichlids really like frozen krill.

 

[itiwhetu]

The best money I every made breeding fish was Whiptail catfish. They are easy and worth a bomb. The next best is pygmy catfish followed by Black Angels ( but they have to be pure blacks ). I always wanted to breed Pantadon Butterfly's because I think they would be a great seller and once you nutted out spawning they would be easy.

 

[itiwhetu]

You are always better to breed 25 fish worth $4 than 100 fish worth $1

 

[madmark285]

You are always better to breed 25 fish worth $4 than 100 fish worth $1

Or sell $30 such as a Plecostomus "Green Dragon" Longfin from Select Aquatics. Another factor to consider, the cost of shipping if you have to sell your fish online. For myself, the shipping cost for a Green Dragon would be ~$50. Most likely I would buy 3 of them, now this fish cost ~$46/each with a total bill of $140.

Assumed Copyright of Select Aquatics

 

[madmark285]

The best money I every made breeding fish was Whiptail catfish. They are easy and worth a bomb. The next best is pygmy catfish followed by Black Angels ( but they have to be pure blacks ). I always wanted to breed Pantadon Butterfly's because I think they would be a great seller and once you nutted out spawning they would be easy.

I am not a breeder so I have a question. If you are selectively breeding a fish to achieve a goal such as a pure Black Angels, what do you do with all the unwanted fish? I hear the word culled being used by some breeders, just flush them down a toilet or feed them to a Oscar?

I assume it may take multi generations to get a group of Black Angel to breed but now you may have 100's of unwanted Angels you need to get rid of. Of course you could give them away but that could be difficult.

Just curious.

 

[itiwhetu]

I am not a breeder so I have a question. If you are selectively breeding a fish to achieve a goal such as a pure Black Angels, what do you do with all the unwanted fish? I hear the word culled being used by some breeders, just flush them down a toilet or feed them to a Oscar?

I assume it may take multi generations to get a group of Black Angel to breed but now you may have 100's of unwanted Angels you need to get rid of. Of course you could give them away but that could be difficult.

Just curious.

I always sold the fish I didn't want, there are plenty of aquarists who just want a nice fish.