Setting up new Tank HELP NEEDED!!!!

[DobbyTheElfKing]

Hi every one, Dobby here. I always had fish growing up but this is my first foray into a marine aquarium. Naturally i go for a reef aquarium as my first attempt.

My problem is Ph. It is WAY to low. 7.52 (seneye) and about 7.8 from a NTLabs test kit. I can not get it up enough.

Tank: 220L, Red Sea Live Substrate, D&D Aquascape Rock, Protein Skimmer for aeration (Window open most of the day in case CO2 build up in Aquarium room), filter sock.
Coral Pro Salt from Red Sea, and 'Ultra Pure Water" TDS=0 Ph 7 (according to fairly trusted seller).

Temp 25
KH 8.6 (2 tests)
Salinity 1.025-1.026
Mg > 1500
Ph 7.51 (as of posting) and about 7.8 with another test.

I have a few other tests such as ammonia etc but I cant see that making a difference.
I also can not test my Pure water's Ph as I don't have a Ph test that will go below 7.6.

I have been adding some bacteria for about 3 days now, that hasn't made a difference.
I also added some live food today, all died within a couple hours.

If people suggest a certain test, I will try to get it. (obviously slowly because COVID)

ANY help would be amazing, as I am completely out of ideas.

 

[mrsjoannh13]

Why do you think your pH is too low? My LFS specializes in saltwater tanks and they use RO water with a pH of about 6.

If you want to raise your pH I know there are substrates out there which will raise pH and you can add something like crushed coral as well.

I'll let others chime in but unless I'm reading this wrong, your pH is 7.5 to 7.8 in which case this is not really low and should be suitable for a saltwater tank. Are you interested in fish that require a lower pH?

 

[Krib32]

Why do you think your pH is too low? My LFS specializes in saltwater tanks and they use RO water with a pH of about 6.

If you want to raise your pH I know there are substrates out there which will raise pH and you can add something like crushed coral as well.

I'll let others chime in but unless I'm reading this wrong, your pH is 7.5 to 7.8 in which case this is not really low and should be suitable for a saltwater tank. Are you interested in fish that require a lower pH?

I agree 7.8 should be fine but if corals are added it would be ideal if it was around 8. I believe the salt raises the ph of the water. My ro/di water has a lowe ph but once I mix my salt in it raises it to the perfect level.

 

[Colin_T]

Reverse Osmosis water should have a pH of 7.0 unless it started out lower before it was filtered.

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Marine tanks should have a layer of calcium based substrate (beach sand is ideal) and lots of limestone rocks. These will help push the pH up to 8.4-8.6, which is where it should be for marine tanks. You do not want the pH below 8.2.

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Marine salts should normally have a lot of calcium carbonate and calcium chloride in and this should help raise the GH, KH and pH. If it doesn't then check the ingredients and maybe try a different brand.

You can use sodium bicarbonate (available from any supermarket) as a temporary measure to buff the pH, but calcium carbonate/ bicarbonate is better. This is normally available from pet shops and is sold as KH buffer.

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What sort of live food did you add, that died shortly after?

 

[DobbyTheElfKing]

Reverse Osmosis water should have a pH of 7.0 unless it started out lower before it was filtered.

-------------------
Marine tanks should have a layer of calcium based substrate (beach sand is ideal) and lots of limestone rocks. These will help push the pH up to 8.4-8.6, which is where it should be for marine tanks. You do not want the pH below 8.2.

-------------------
Marine salts should normally have a lot of calcium carbonate and calcium chloride in and this should help raise the GH, KH and pH. If it doesn't then check the ingredients and maybe try a different brand.

You can use sodium bicarbonate (available from any supermarket) as a temporary measure to buff the pH, but calcium carbonate/ bicarbonate is better. This is normally available from pet shops and is sold as KH buffer.

-------------------
What sort of live food did you add, that died shortly after?

some Mysis.
i am aiming for 8.2-8.3 as i defiantly want corals.
i have Aragonite sand and rock. about 30kg total (sand and rock)
just done a calcium test. its right at the top end of the recommended level: 450mg/l CA2+
i have some Kh buffer, but my Kh is already on the high side of recomended at 8.5-8.6 dKh. should i just put more in? to raise the ph, but have Kh REALLY high? is Kh harmful?

 

[DobbyTheElfKing]

Why do you think your pH is too low? My LFS specializes in saltwater tanks and they use RO water with a pH of about 6.

If you want to raise your pH I know there are substrates out there which will raise pH and you can add something like crushed coral as well.

I'll let others chime in but unless I'm reading this wrong, your pH is 7.5 to 7.8 in which case this is not really low and should be suitable for a saltwater tank. Are you interested in fish that require a lower pH?

no, higher PH. reef tanks need to be 8.2-8.3 PH
i already have that substrate and rock. both are meant to increase PH and the salt i have is also meant to help get a high PH. This is my problem.

 

[Colin_T]

You can have a high KH and it won't affect the fish or corals, but the live rock and aragonite should be raising the pH so it is high enough.

Have you had the pH checked by a pet shop?
You might have a dodgy test kit that is reading lower than it should be. I would take a sample of tank water and r/o water to a pet shop and ask them to check the pH. Take your test kit and test the same samples of water at the same time. If you get different results to the shop, then one of the test kits is faulty and should be replaced.

Other than that, wait a week and see if the live rock raises the pH for you. It might just need time to get the pH up. If the pH does go up with the live rock, you will need to hold any new water you make in a separate container with some limestone until the pH is high enough (8.5) to go into the tank.

You can use a large plastic bin/ storage container to make the salt water up, add a few big pieces of limestone and let it aerate/ circulate for a week. When the pH is where you want it, check the salinity and use that water for water changes.

 

[DobbyTheElfKing]

You can have a high KH and it won't affect the fish or corals, but the live rock and aragonite should be raising the pH so it is high enough.

Have you had the pH checked by a pet shop?
You might have a dodgy test kit that is reading lower than it should be. I would take a sample of tank water and r/o water to a pet shop and ask them to check the pH. Take your test kit and test the same samples of water at the same time. If you get different results to the shop, then one of the test kits is faulty and should be replaced.

Other than that, wait a week and see if the live rock raises the pH for you. It might just need time to get the pH up. If the pH does go up with the live rock, you will need to hold any new water you make in a separate container with some limestone until the pH is high enough (8.5) to go into the tank.

You can use a large plastic bin/ storage container to make the salt water up, add a few big pieces of limestone and let it aerate/ circulate for a week. When the pH is where you want it, check the salinity and use that water for water changes.

i have NOT checked it with a pet shop. i am from the UK and we are in lockdown, everything is shut atm. so not really possible.
yesturday i put in a lot of PH buffer, that is meant to raise the PH. this worked... briefly. it increased the PH by about .3-.35 but then just started going down again. i then re-dosed it with MORE and it went up again briefly before going down. (see graph below)

i can only assume i have some MASSIVE contamination in the tank that is holding the PH at 7.5. so i think i will basically start again with the tank. empty the water, fill, empty etc. However i wont be able to get new Pure water until lock down is over.

i dont have a Ph test that goes low enough for water (lowest 7.6) so i have ordered one for that.
if you have any other tests you could recomend or things to try i would be happy to give it a go.

 

[Donya]

How long has the substrate been in there? "Live" substrate (and rock) has a die-off period, particularly if it's sat in the bag a long time and/or if it wasn't handled very well in transit (sitting in the back of a hot truck, for example). Any kind of decay can potentially lower pH. Usually the sand itself and rock offsets that, but not always if the die-off is extreme.

Did the salt dissolve well when you mixed it? The freshly mixed water should have had a nice high pH and there should be no residue or anything that settles out. If you had deposits at the bottom after mixing, that can throw off the buffering capacity of the water. It can be an issue with salt mix that has already had moisture exposure at some point.

I'm not familiar with the brand of rock you listed. Assuming the freshly mixed saltwater has an ok pH and nothing weird about it, rocks can also mess with pH. For live rock there can be something decaying in it and dry rock can sometimes have other mineral deposits on/in it that dissolve out and mess with water parameters.

Adding buffers to the tank itself is not a good way to raise pH in a marine tank. In fact, if you get to aggressive with some buffers you can create a weird situation where the KH is super high but the pH is still stubbornly low (something that happened to me once a long, long time ago). I don't think that's what's going on here but please be cautious. While hardy animals won't die from that, it's a bad direction to go since it both throws things out of whack and doesn't solve the root of the problem. I would advise not trying to do any more manual correction until you figure out why the pH is getting dragged down.

EDIT: last sentence was supposed to say "advise NOT trying," not "advise trying"...sorry.