Saving Money On Test Kits
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fry_lover
Fred and the Fredettes
dont you just hate it when someone who hasnt contributed comes in and says something like that?
what about your views on test kits and ammonia and nitrite, this thread has been fine, just a bit of debate and banter
cheesy feet
Fish Aficionado
Why is everyone seeing this as an flame war ?
fry_lover
Fred and the Fredettes
LOL
another school teacher joins the thread to tell us all off but doesnt actually contibute to it?
cheesy feet
Fish Aficionado
Just to give a little info to the dechlorinator/no dechlorinator debate going on here; http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...oguera&st=0
As far as water testing, once you get a little more knowledgable about fish behavior, you can tell if something is a little off, this is when I will do water tests. I have many tanks that have never been tested, and others that haven't been tested for many months.
As far as for a beginner, I would advise water testing and dechlorinator. Once you get a handle on fish behavior and such, you can ease off on the weekly water tests that would be wise for a beginner to do. As far as dechlorinator, and the explaination in that link, I do at least 50% water changes on my tanks, and the amount of ammonia produced could lead to problems, especially for fry, which are more fragile. No doubt my bio filtration would take care of it in time, but in that time damage could occur. I acually worry more about heavy metals with adults than chlorine/chloramine/ammonia, so use a water conditioner that had EDTA.
Mr. Rush; (I really like that one!) while I do agree with many of your ideas and methods for more advanced aquarists, and I do practice several that you mentioned, I would not suggest them for beginners. It is best to start slow with anything, this includes aquatics. I would hate to see a newbie crash & burn without a viable backup plan or the know how to pull it off.
When you have your first lesson in driver's ed, you don't get pointed down the expressway on ramp during rush hour, and when you are trying to teach a kid to ride a bike you don't yank off the training wheels and shove them down a half pipe. Many of the things you advise are fine for advanced aquarists, who have experience, spare tanks, and such to recover if there is a problem.
Agreed
As i noted somewhere with experience you don't really need one.Once you ahve got a good routine going all is well!
K.J.
LUK ITS A FUZBALL
Because it is. Do I really have to type up a detailed post on how this thread will come to an untimely demise to be allowed to post? Your "know it all" post does not, at all, contribute to your intelligence.
If you are that interested in the weekly WC debate, please, continue it in the scientific section.
If you are that interested in the weekly WC debate, please, continue it in the scientific section.
starrynightxxi
Fish Herder
no, i don't hate it or i wouldn't have said it. This keeps happening and its ridiculous. I think that if you want to have a debate about using dechlorinator and/or test kits then you should start your own thread specifically rather than crusading on a thread that was not about that.
As for my thoughts, I have a test kit that I never use because the only time I pull it out is if something appears to be wrong without obvious signs of illness. But that doesn't mean that its recommendable to beginners who have no idea what's going on.
As for my thoughts, I have a test kit that I never use because the only time I pull it out is if something appears to be wrong without obvious signs of illness. But that doesn't mean that its recommendable to beginners who have no idea what's going on.
cheesy feet
Fish Aficionado
I think you came in just at the end of the debate 
cheesy feet
Fish Aficionado
Just read that whole thread tolak.Very useful...I learnt alot of new things from bignose's post!
t1tanrush, did you even read my post (loooong way back now)? I'm assuming not, so I'm going to repeat myself here: Any amount of ammonia is bad for a fish's health. Any amount of ammonia can cause gill damage that can become permanent. And, evidence shows that exposure to any amount of ammonia weakens a fish's immune system permanently, leaving them more susceptible to all diseases. The references I got that information from, so that you can check these statements yourself by the researchers who presented their study of fish disease are above. Rather than just stating your unsupported opinion "ammonia will not kill your fish," maybe you should either drop that statement or bring some proof to the table to back it up. I've brought you my proof about how ammonia, even at very low concentrations, does permanent damage.
This certainly isn't right. First and foremost, how else are you going to get rid of nitrates? You can plant your tank to help make sure that the nitrates are either used up or nitrates don't even happen because the plants take all the ammonia, however you still need to do water changes. You need to replenish the buffering capability of your water, for one. Plus, water changes help dilute all the low concentrations of toxins that do get into your tank, without your knowing about it. I'm talking about carpet fumes, cigarette smoke, cooking oils, cleaning products, etc. The concentration of these chemicals is low, but long-term exposure can't be good for the fish; not all poisoning have to be acute, low-concentration but long-term can be just as bad. In the air, all we have to do is open the window to clear it. But, the fish count on you to refresh the water in their tanks.
Personally, I rarely test my tanks any more. They have been running for over 2 years, are cycled and stable and I have no problems. Once a tank is cycled and mature and you aren't adding new fish or making other changes or major cleanings, there is really not much way the bacteria colony can get decimated or wiped out to cause ammonia and nitrite build ups.
Although I don't test any more, I do whole heartedly recommend a good liquid test kit for beginners and suggest they should use it for the first year or at least, as Tolak mentioned, until they are comfortable with their tank's condition and know how to recognise problems if they arise.
As for the money side of it, my first API master kit lasted a full year (pH and nitrate much longer than that). That's about $25 for a year's worth of testing. Hardly wasting a lot of money considering the peace of mind it gives. And all it takes is losing a few fish from high toxin levels caused by not testing and you've wasted the money in buying new fish that would still be alive.
And for those of you arguing for or against using test kits, neither of you is going to convince the other to change their mind or way of doing things so you just as well start talking to the walls, the fish or your plants and give your fingers a rest. Give the dead horse a break.
Edit: It took me so long to type this, Bignose beat me to the reasons for water changes and added some of the ones I knew I had omitted.
Although I don't test any more, I do whole heartedly recommend a good liquid test kit for beginners and suggest they should use it for the first year or at least, as Tolak mentioned, until they are comfortable with their tank's condition and know how to recognise problems if they arise.
As for the money side of it, my first API master kit lasted a full year (pH and nitrate much longer than that). That's about $25 for a year's worth of testing. Hardly wasting a lot of money considering the peace of mind it gives. And all it takes is losing a few fish from high toxin levels caused by not testing and you've wasted the money in buying new fish that would still be alive.
And for those of you arguing for or against using test kits, neither of you is going to convince the other to change their mind or way of doing things so you just as well start talking to the walls, the fish or your plants and give your fingers a rest. Give the dead horse a break.
In a cycled tank, ammonia and nitrite should always be zero, period (or at least unmeasurable as there will always be a trace amount of each). If there ever is a measurable amount, you are doing something wrong and need to figure out what it is and solve the problem rather than use water changes to remedy the problem as it may get worse without a resolution. And the purpose of regular water changes are to remove nitrates, replenish buffering capacity and keep the minerals at a proper level (I'm sure there are other things that I didn't mention). They are not to remove ammonia or nitrite which, as I said, should already be zero.
Edit: It took me so long to type this, Bignose beat me to the reasons for water changes and added some of the ones I knew I had omitted.
Wow you guys were busy this evening What a lively debate!
I have 4 tanks setup and do anywhere from daily to weekly water changes depending on the tank. All tanks are overfiltered for their size and I use my test kits faithfully. My tanks have been setup for 2 months to a few hours (see my biocube posts). Because none of them have been setup for a long time, I am testing and I believe that any newbies should do so. However, if a person does not want to "throw their money away", check with your lfs. Both of the ones here will test water for free.
What a lively debate!I have 4 tanks setup and do anywhere from daily to weekly water changes depending on the tank. All tanks are overfiltered for their size and I use my test kits faithfully. My tanks have been setup for 2 months to a few hours (see my biocube posts). Because none of them have been setup for a long time, I am testing and I believe that any newbies should do so. However, if a person does not want to "throw their money away", check with your lfs. Both of the ones here will test water for free.
OP
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certainly opened a can of worms!!! 
back on topic, i think the answer to my original point is:
IF you test your water, you are best to stick to the instructions, because scrimping to save cash can reduce the accuracy of the test quite significantly.
back on topic, i think the answer to my original point is:
IF you test your water, you are best to stick to the instructions, because scrimping to save cash can reduce the accuracy of the test quite significantly.
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