Saving Money On Test Kits

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If ammonia and nitrite are at zero then there is no need for a water change tbh........[/quote]
name='cheesy feet' post='1746056' date='Aug 27 2007, 09:16 PM']I'd like to say weekly and biweekly water changes are basically done to prevent ammonia, nitrite or nitrate from building up.[/quote]
In a cycled tank, ammonia and nitrite should always be zero, period (or at least unmeasurable as there will always be a trace amount of each). If there ever is a measurable amount, you are doing something wrong and need to figure out what it is and solve the problem rather than use water changes to remedy the problem as it may get worse without a resolution. And the purpose of regular water changes are to remove nitrates, replenish buffering capacity and keep the minerals at a proper level (I'm sure there are other things that I didn't mention). They are not to remove ammonia or nitrite which, as I said, should already be zero.

[/quote]
Hence the basically and building up part, if you didn't do water changes for a long period ammonia and nitrite would eventually build up :nod: ...Sorry about the quote thing ^^
 
Hence the basically and building up part, if you didn't do water changes for a long period ammonia and nitrite would eventually build up :nod: ...Sorry about the quote thing ^^
That is not correct. There is a trace amount of ammonia and nitrite in the tank because fish are always emitting ammonia through their gills and things ae always breaking down (wste, excess food, dead plant leaves) and the ammonia has not passed through the filter yet to be processed. In a cycled tank, if you left it to run on and on without water changes, the ammonia and nitrites would always remain trace amounts.

Obviously, without doing a water change or topping off the tank (not a good idea) the water level would get low enough that it could cause the trace amounts to suddenly start to register but at that point in time you will have much more serious problems than the ammonia and nitrite. High nitrate, high mineral content, reduced buffering capacity (thus a plummeting pH), no water, etc. would all get so bad it would kill the fish anyway and the decaying fish would finally overload the bacteria. But the trace amounts would not build to a measureable amount over time if the water level was kept at a proper point.

Edit: Back to the original topic. I think Bignose summed it up early on that diluting the drops and water could skew the tests so the results would not be accurate. And as I mentioned in my previous post, we're not talking about enough money to matter much anyway
 
AND ANYONE THAT DOESNT USE DECHLORINATOR FOR WATER COMING OUT THE TAP (unless they got RO or some other filter) IS PLAIN DUMB, I MEAN THAT, COMPLETELY NOT IN TOUCH WITH THE REALITY OF FISH KEEPING, better off getting a good scren saver on their PC of a tank full of fish,

Ah plain dumb am I? Read the thread Tolak posted a few pages back, click here.

I don't use it when I'm doing water changes up to about 30% but I do however use it when doing larger changes.

I don't test my water any more either, sure I used to do it, but like Bignose after a while I stopped when I stopped seeing a need to do them.
 
Hence the basically and building up part, if you didn't do water changes for a long period ammonia and nitrite would eventually build up :nod: ...Sorry about the quote thing ^^
That is not correct. There is a trace amount of ammonia and nitrite in the tank because fish are always emitting ammonia through their gills and things ae always breaking down (wste, excess food, dead plant leaves) and the ammonia has not passed through the filter yet to be processed. In a cycled tank, if you left it to run on and on without water changes, the ammonia and nitrites would always remain trace amounts.

Obviously, without doing a water change or topping off the tank (not a good idea) the water level would get low enough that it could cause the trace amounts to suddenly start to register but at that point in time you will have much more serious problems than the ammonia and nitrite. High nitrate, high mineral content, reduced buffering capacity (thus a plummeting pH), no water, etc. would all get so bad it would kill the fish anyway and the decaying fish would finally overload the bacteria. But the trace amounts would not build to a measureable amount over time if the water level was kept at a proper point.

Edit: Back to the original topic. I think Bignose summed it up early on that diluting the drops and water could skew the tests so the results would not be accurate. And as I mentioned in my previous post, we're not talking about enough money to matter much anyway
Never knew that one.I always thought that if you overstocked a tank and didn't do enough water changes you would get high nitrate levels.Then, I thought that because it would be to much for the nitrifying bacteria ammonia and nitrite levels would increase. :look:
 
Never knew that one.I always thought that if you overstocked a tank and didn't do enough water changes you would get high nitrate levels.Then, I thought that because it would be to much for the nitrifying bacteria ammonia and nitrite levels would increase. :look:
You are correct that if you overstock and don't have a good maintenance (WC) schedule that you will indeed get high nitrates, thus the need for WCs (whether overstocked or not you have to eventually lower the nitrates) even when there isn't any ammonia or nitrite present. Since nitrate is the end result of the nitrogen cycle, the nitrate increases constantly as ammonia is processed until you do a water change to lower it.

The nitrifying bacteria however will continue to increase in quantity to handle the bio-load in the tank. With proper filtration, theoretically, you could have 50 tetras in a fully cycled, 10 gallon tank (definitely overstocked) and add 50 more (doubling the stock) and within about 24 hours, the nitrifying bacteria colony would have doubled it's size to the point that it could handle the additional fish. Although severely overstocked, the bacteria would be able to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at zero. I say theoretically because since there are so many fish in the tank, there will be a much larger trace amount of ammonia and nitrite simply because they are producing it so fast so it's possible that the trace amount would even be measurable but it wouldn't be because the bacteria couldn't handle it, but simply because it hadn't gotten to the filter and bacteria yet.

Oddly enough this thread just got started in the Beginners section. I think there are some very good points in it as to why beginners need a good test kit. The paragraph below from that thread to me is the key when you start talking about not "wasting" money on test kits.

Testing you water should be apart of your weekly maintenance. Its more of a way of stopping a problem before it happens rather than a way of finding out what the problem is.

As I said there, the old adage "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" holds true. If you are having to buy more fish to replace the ones you lose or medications to cure diseases that the fish come down with that can directly be linked to bad water parameters, then have you really saved any money by not getting and using a test kit for less than $50 (I can buy 2 master kits for less than that from Petsmart) if they happen to be that high where you live.
 
I have read this post and there seems to be a lot of people harping against the "Old Skool" way as it has been put forward.
From a personal standpoint, although I do now test water on a very frequent basis (breeding etc) there is a lot to be said for old skool methodology. A lot of the time it was down to patience. We didn't have advances in technology such as powerfilters, medications, additives etc, etc, I have lost very few fish to desease, water parameters over the years whereby today there seems to be more remedies, fast track concoctions to speed everything up. Everyone is in a rush. The med section of your LFS will leave you bewildered. Adding this and adding that, how does that benefit fish health and husbandry. I have seen people on here ill qualified to give advice on cycling, disease cures etc etc. posting a lot of replies that amount to zilch, just to get their point ratings up to look as if they are a master aquarist, Some of the replies are ludicris. It's a wonder the hobby isn't outlawed with the amount of fish losses on this forum alone. No wonder DEFRA's getting tough.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with "Old Skool" methods as these were the building blocks for what the hobby has become today, and for those who come on here and proclaim that the old timers know nothing about fishkeeping, need to justify such accusations and show their CV's
Sorry for the rant, just needed to air my views from over 35 years in the hobby.
Regards
BigC
 
T1tan; do you happen to know your PH? What Dechlor do you use?

For the first 6 months, and maybe longer of my fish-keeping I had no test kit. And there was a strange disease striking my fish. They would get skinnier and skinnier until death. They were eating well, but still died. Then I got a dip-strip test kit from Jungle Labs. It turned out nitrates were too high and I needed more water changes. Now I barely use my test kit. Also, I use an expired Pur tap water filter with carbon and zeolite. Works like a charm.
 
I agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the old way of doing things. Your statement about patience is so true. I only got in to the hobby in recent years so I don't know all the old school methodology but as you mentioned, it was based on patience. I guess I am somewhat in the old school way now as I don't test on a regular basis and just watch my tanks for problems. But my theory is that if the technology is there to make it easier on the beginners today, then they should take every advantage of it and use the test kits to keep their parameters where they should be. Obviously, from the breeding standpoint, you see the benefits of testing as opposed to the old way. I truly believe in working smarter, not harder and trying to start up a new tank without the benifit of a test kit is definitely the more difficult way to go as you never really know what is going on in the tank, especially if you're new to the hobby.
 
My dad's friend has got a guppy tank that is majorily over stocked due to them having babies.
If I asked him what a test kit was he wouldn't have a clue. My guess is he doesn't even do water changes. I never see a dead fish in the tank and they all look really healthy. This bloke doesn't even have a net! I've got fish off of him and I have never had a problem with them where as shop bought fish always get an illness within the first couple of days!
I think sometimes by doing test etc, we get worried too quickly. Well atleast I do!
 
But my theory is that if the technology is there to make it easier on the beginners today, then they should take every advantage of it
I fully understand your viewpoint.
And I embrace good test kits/ appratus to the max, where I do have the problem is in the execution of changing the water parameters too quickly. Altering the pH, water softening/hardening using chemical methods, cycling using chemicals (ammonia etc.) and over frequent usage of chemical remedies. When there is simply no need to. These trends are killing more fish than curing.
Regards
BigC
 
I have read the whole of this thread and it makes me chuckle. I keep big oddball fish that need pristine water and I do not check my water I did when the tank was setup but I know if there is something wrong in my tank. If a tank is fully cycled and matured you should have no problems with ammonia and nitrite I do 2 water changes a week to keep my nitrates low and ill know they will be high because of the fish I keep. My rays can not handle any ammonia in the slightest but I still do not check my water. Is this because im lazy and cruel no its because I know my tank my setup and my fish and I will know if something is wrong this is also the same for my marine tank and that is crystal with absolutley no problems I have never lost anything in the time it has beem setup. Advice I would give to a new inexperianced fish keeper would be to test you water and monitor the fishes behavior so you know what signs to be looking out for and when you know how the act at feeding and at certain times you can cut down the ammount that you test. As for dechlorinator I dechlor all my water I just run the hose through a evolution aqua dechlorinator that connect straight to my hose. Remember people we keep WATER fish just happen to live in it.
 
I have read this post and there seems to be a lot of people harping against the "Old Skool" way as it has been put forward.
From a personal standpoint, although I do now test water on a very frequent basis (breeding etc) there is a lot to be said for old skool methodology. A lot of the time it was down to patience. We didn't have advances in technology such as powerfilters, medications, additives etc, etc, I have lost very few fish to desease, water parameters over the years whereby today there seems to be more remedies, fast track concoctions to speed everything up. Everyone is in a rush. The med section of your LFS will leave you bewildered. Adding this and adding that, how does that benefit fish health and husbandry. I have seen people on here ill qualified to give advice on cycling, disease cures etc etc. posting a lot of replies that amount to zilch, just to get their point ratings up to look as if they are a master aquarist, Some of the replies are ludicris. It's a wonder the hobby isn't outlawed with the amount of fish losses on this forum alone. No wonder DEFRA's getting tough.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with "Old Skool" methods as these were the building blocks for what the hobby has become today, and for those who come on here and proclaim that the old timers know nothing about fishkeeping, need to justify such accusations and show their CV's
Sorry for the rant, just needed to air my views from over 35 years in the hobby.
Regards
BigC

Big C, thats fair enough and a VERY valid point, but the problem is "old skool" is just a term, it means nothing almost and is highly subjective, one persons "old skool" will be completely different to another persons "old skool"

If you have someone who doesnt "appear" knowledgable saying they do it the "old skool" way its a bit suspect, so i guess it depends who's doing it the "old skool" way and what exactly "old skool" means.

I for one certainly didnt mean to sound dismissive of more experienced fish keepers who dont necessarily to need to rely so heavily on test kits, but i will need to read my posts again

EDIT: to me "old skool" is rave music (reach for the lasers, yyyyeeeeeehhhhhh) :hyper:
 
My first tank was set up last December as a high tech planted. This meant adding nitrates and phosphates to fertilise the plants, and run CO2 at 30ppm. For the first couple of weeks I tested religiously for ammonia and nitrites, without getting a single positive reading. That is the power of a large, healthy mass of plants.

Within one week of setting up the tank, I was able to add Otos and Amano shrimp, due to the fact that the tank never cycled. Then, I never tested the tank for months, until I took out all the plants and replanted with different types for a different look. After this, I tested for nitrates and phosphates for a short period to see how much of a difference there would be in the uptake by the plants.

After nine months in this hobby, I have set up another two planted tanks and rarely test any more. Not because I am lazy or don`t care about my fish, but because I took the time and effort to understand how my tanks work, and I now feel sufficiently in tune with them to not need to carry out any testing.

To anybody that wishes to test their tanks regularly....well it is your hobby, your money and your choice. I for one do not judge you in anyway. I just choose to follow the lead of my fish, plants and unexpected appearances of algae as indicators for any variations in stability.

Just to throw a bit of a spanner in the works, I hope people realise that the majority of the kits we use are reasonably inaccurate.

Dave.
 
one persons "old skool" will be completely different to another persons "old skool"
Point taken fry_lover. but you know what I mean, The wrinkly generation.
Regards
BigC

P.S. Good replies there from both Dave and Mark.
 

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