Razers Fishless Cycle!

[cowboy507]

im not too sure ...someone else help?

 

[razer121]

ok, i think i may be getting past that half way mark ive noticed my tank is processing ammonia in roughly 24hours i also noticed nitrates and nitrites but...im not sure which one should be going sky high?? should i even be getting both a lil light shed on this would help alot if anyone wants to know the tank levels and such i updated it on the first post for today thanks!

 

[yasinullah]

ok, i think i may be getting past that half way mark ive noticed my tank is processing ammonia in roughly 24hours i also noticed nitrates and nitrites but...im not sure which one should be going sky high?? should i even be getting both a lil light shed on this would help alot if anyone wants to know the tank levels and such i updated it on the first post for today thanks!

congrats !! thats the first milestone reached, soon your ammonia will reach 0ppm at 12hours.

Also, ammonia is processed by the A-bacs to nitrite, so soon your nitrite levels will spike, as you will soon be adding ammonia every 24hours (each time it reaches ~0ppm). Nitrates are the product of the N-bacs processing the nitrite and the level of nitrates will slowly increase.

 

[OldMan47]

Your day 25 readings are showing that you have not only some ammonia processors but a few nitrite processors. The brown stuff everywhere is called black beard algae and it can be difficult to control completely. I would try cutting back on the photoperiod to reduce the amount that you produce. It can be cleaned off but unless you can get the light and fertilizer balance right in the tank it will come right back.

 

[razer121]

thanks guys, you help keeps me going lol but.....

is it normaly for nitrAtes to go up and down? ive noticed them starting to go down again?

and what does photoperiod mean? call me dumb but ive never heard of that before nor anyone say it lol, im guessing its something to do with my lights right?? well if it is i want to get a timer on the plug so they come on at a certain time as im out in the morning and dont turn them on till i get home at like 3.....so does anyone know of a good timer i can use?? thanks!

 

[waterdrop]

As OM47 says, brown algae will come back if you don't resolve the causes, but it doesn't hurt to always be doing the little low-level fighting back. Brown algae can be cleaned prior to the water change. I use a small slightly rough aquarium sponge.. came on the end of an LFS glass cleaning stick long ago.. I wipe down all the inside glass, whether I see algae or not, I then, very very gently use my thumb to move this small sponge of the top surfaces of large leaves while my fingers essentially move the leaf back and forth underneath the sponge, helping some or all of the brown algae to be loosened and released into the tank water. The times I've had a little brown algae I've done this right before the 50% water change and a lot of algae went out with the water change. Brown algae on decorations would be easier of course as you could just remove it to a sink for easier cleaning.

Yes, nitrates go up and down. If you're still cycling, don't worry about them.

As you surmised, photoperiod is a time period when your aquarium lights are on. I prefer the simple cheap mechanical dial timers available at the hardware store. There are electronic versions but then you usually need to worry about a battery, which I don't like. My timers turn on the light strips for a short period in the morning during which the fish and plants will be fed and the tank admired a bit before Oliver goes off to school. Then the timers turn the lights on again for a much longer period in the late afternoon/evening when we all are there and will be seeing the tank more. I fiddle with both light hours and fertilizer amounts because the that tank, not having strong CO2 or current, is easily subject to algae.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[razer121]

ok, when should i start testing at 12 hours between? at the moment im testing 24 hours,

 

[waterdrop]

ok, when should i start testing at 12 hours between? at the moment im testing 24 hours,

You told me your schedule wouldn't allow 12 hour testing.

Once you are pretty much getting zero ammonia and zero nitrite(NO2) at 24 hours whenever you test then you're getting less info from that and so if you could only do one or the other test time then the 12 hour test might start to give you more info, so you could switch over to only testing 12 hours after adding ammonia. If you figure out a way to do both, then do both as that gives you a little better picture. Also, if it makes a difference, it doesn't really hurt to skip a day, say if you are really tired and just want to get out the door to work, what matters is looking at your results written down over several days to see if you see how the numbers are going.

Don't forget, the two main things you're watching are first whether you can put in ammonia to reach a 5ppm concentration and then, 12 hours later, see that ammonia has dropped to zero ppm and nitrite(NO2) has dropped to zero ppm. When it can do that then you get to start your "qualifying week." The second main thing you're watching with your tests is the pH, to make sure it doesn't manage to get down to pH=6.2 or below where the bacterial growth process would not be proceeding.

Hang in there razer and you'll get there,
~~waterdrop~~

 

[razer121]

thanks man, well over this weekend i have decided to try and do 12 hour testing, im just going to have to get up abit earlyer if i cannot make it to work in time, its only for a week or 2 and i need to do it, im starting to get close to zero readings now anyway (dont know if you noticed i have been updating the 1st post with results) so yes im going to try and work it out so i test in the morning at 6.30am and then 6.30 in the evening, ive got to test today at 10ish to see if i can process in 12 hours.....at least that should help will post with updates as normal,

p.s i have a ramshore snail slowly growing in the tank, i dont mind it being there but i do wonder how on earth is it pulling through with all the ammonia and bad water?!?! it seems invinceble lol

 

[razer121]

dont know if anyone noticed but my ammonia within 12 hours was down to .25!!!!! this is a good thing right?? but i havent had a ntirate/nitrite spike yet and im sure im supposed to have one??? a lil advice please

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, its always an excellent sign when you get low numbers like that after only 12 hours. Sometimes one or the other substance seems to "stick" at the low number for quite a while but other times you are not far from getting some double-zeros. Regardless, its good.

I disagree about your nitrite. You had nitrite=5 way back on day 10 or something and then later had a period of nitrite=2, diminishing to 1. So its possible you've already got decent numbers of nitrite processing bacteria in there and are not going to get another big spike of that.. not totally sure, but seems possible.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[razer121]

ok, so does this mean im close to my final week i hope so i want to get my fish back into this tank, what sort of numbers am i looking for before i start my final week?

 

[waterdrop]

Now don't go getting impatient on us, its bad luck! The numbers you're watching for are zeros instead of 0.25's.

If you dose to 5ppm ammonia and then, 12 hours later, you test ammonia and get 0.0 ppm and test nitrite(NO2) and get 0.0 ppm, then that starts your "qualifying week." You just keep adding ammonia to 5ppm at the same time of day and make sure that at 12 hours later the ammonia and nitrite keep dropping to zero. (Nitrate(NO3) doesn't matter, it'll possibly be slowly building up all through this.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[razer121]

ah i see, well thats a good sign then as i have pretty good results is there a reason that nitrAtes dont matter? should i stop testing for them...

 

[waterdrop]

Well, its just that during fishless cycling Nitrate(NO3) is not the measurement that's going to tell you if you've reached your goal, only ammonia and nitrite(NO2) can do that. Its still good to measure NO3 every now and then to see how high its getting. If pH drops really low and nitrate(NO3) gets really high then a water change might be called for. Also nitrate(NO3), being the end result of the cycle, can give you psychological boost when you see it going up, as that tells you the nitrogen cycle must be happening in your filter. On the other hand, there are a few problems with NO3 testing, particularly during fishless cycling. First and foremost, the test is difficult to perform and results can be unreliable (the shaking times they give are minimal and sometimes may not be enough for a reliable result, plus, precipitates in the 2nd reagent bottle, at least in the api test, can separate and mess things up a bit or clog the dripper.) Also, the test can give wrong results if nitrite(NO2) readings are high as it will see some of those as NO3 too. And of course live plants can change the expected results by absorbing some of the NO3 in the tank.

So overall, its good to get the occasional check, maybe every other or every third day or something just to have a record of it perhaps getting high, but during fishless cycling its not really one of the key measurements. *After* cycling, when you have fish and your tank becomes normal, its a different story and nitrate(NO3) tests assume more importance to help you gauge how well your weekly gravel-clean-water-changes are doing at maintaining good water chemistry for your fish.

~~waterdrop~~