Plants Not Getting Enough Nutrients...

[cooledwhip]

I have had an aquascape and many other planted tanks for almost 6 months now. I think I have about 10 tanks, all thriving. My first one which is using seachem flourite is not doing too well. Most of my plants are substrate based, and when I first started this tank I washed the flourite until it was like gravel, no powder in it, which I assume was all the nutrients.
 
I do the E.I. fert method with Potas nitrate, mono potas, and nutritrace + CSB or something CSM idk. 
 
I also do occasional flourish iron, flourish excel and I am starting to use co2 again. Not the best method, it's manual, and it doesn't have a solenoid. Basically its diy co2. I use a paintball can. 
 
My plants list is extensive. Most of the plants are nutrient based and I am wondering why they aren't rooting too well. There are some roots but there aren't so many roots. I know for a fact the next tank I do I will dirt it. 
 
One of the main parts of the tank is a massive rotala indica forest. It used to be massive and awesome, but now lots of the plants are slowing down and not growing. It looks like it's a light issue. I have a single T5HO over the tank, (tank is 20 long) and the part of the forest that is under neath the light is doing great. Lots of light and the plants have color on the tips and are very thick leaved. However, on the part that is not directly under the light, it struggles to grow, and often times I can go in there and just pluck a stem up from under the substrate and only find a couple if any roots.
 
I don't know if this is a substrate problem or a light problem. I used to have trouble with lights in the past, and ever since I upgraded to the T5 my plants have been doing great. I just don't know if that is the reason why the rotala indica on the "right side of the forest" isn't growing too well. I can try doing some fert tabs, I can't say if that will work t hough. It MAY be the lights, IDK. Can I please have some help? Also what happens lots of times is random segments of upper portions of the rotala are just floating up top. I look and the bottom is all brown. and it looks like the stems are browning as th ey aren't getting nutrients. But then again, that happens when you make a thick forest of plants. It's common for the bottom parts to not get light. I don't know if it is happening to me because it isn't getting light, or just no fertilizers.
 
BTW, my tanks water quality is perfect, every single other plant is flourishing. Water changes once a week, and I DON'T gravel vacuum, I leave detritus in the gravel and the fish poop so the plants can get more fertilization that way. 

 

[eaglesaquarium]

How old is the bulb?
Regarding a lack of roots in plants, if the plants are getting the nutrients they need from the water column, why grow extensive roots? I use low tech, and osmocote root tabs. The roots I get are fairly extensive... But only with my root feeders like Amazon swords and crypts. My stem plants on the other hand usually have just enough roots to hold in one place, and they'll get uprooted at times by my BN or cories.

I'd think that to get more extensive roots those plants would need to be getting more nutrients from their roots. Why would the plant waste energy building a root system it doesn't need?

 

[cooledwhip]

Bulb is about a month old at most. I believe its 6400k. Ik it's not within great range but I'm scared if I add a new 7500k bulb i'll get a massive algae boom. I just got rid of algae too.
 
I would agree with your statement about the roots though. T here is some rooting, mainly from the crypts, which grow massive roots. The stems don't grow too much.
 
I also use osmocote my friend. Lots of people hate on it but it does work. I haven't been using too much of it lately as I just had not gotten around to filling gel capsules, but I just made about a hundred and I will really place some of them in the substrate soon. I hope this will change this and start getting more roots. 

 

[StevenF]

If your lighting worked in the past and you have fresh bulbs less than 1 year old, lighting is probably not the problem.

 
I do the E.I. fert method with Potas nitrate, mono potas, and nutritrace + CSB or something CSM idk. 
 
I also do occasional flourish iron, flourish excel and I am starting to use co2 again. Not the best method, it's manual, and it doesn't have a solenoid. Basically its diy co2. I use a paintball can.

 That first line is so full of abbreviations and acronyms that it makes no sense at all to most people.  If people cannot understand it they can nothelp you.  Now if you wrote:
 
I use Estimative Index fertilization method with potassium nitrate, potassium phosphate and nutritrace.
 
Thatwould make more sense.  However 6 Google searches later I still canot figure out what "+ CSB or something CSM idk.".Means.I have no way of knowing if this is important  
 
Ibelieve your poroblem is no critical nutrient  rather than not enough. Plants Need:

 
 

• the macronutrients: nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), potassium (K), calcium (Ca), sulfur (S), magnesium (Mg); and
• the micronutrients (or trace minerals): boron (B), chlorine (Cl), manganese (Mn), iron (Fe), zinc (Zn), copper (Cu),molybdenum (Mo), nickel (Ni).

From https/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition

In my experience with very soft RO water, If you are short of just one of those your plants will not grow or even die.  You are covering nitrogen, potassium, phosphorous,and carbon (Excel or CO2)  But what about the rest?  The Nutritrace covers Magnesium,copper, iron, Molybdenum, zinc, manganese.  But what about the rest?  You water utility is under no obligation to insure the rest are in your water.   In fact they may not be there at all.
 
Chlorine and Sulfur are often present in most fertilizers because they help some metals dissolve in water. Such as zinc and nickel.  However many people using the Estimative index overlook CALCIUM!  Cacium is typically over abundant in soil and in hard water. So farmers and fertilizer companies typically overlook it.  but if your water is very soft you won't have it.  I also don't see Boron in your list.  It might be there or it might be not.  
 
You can easily correct for a calcium or magnesium deficiency by placing some decorative snail shells in the water. They are made of calcium and magnesium and will slowly dissolve over time.  All snails and clams make their shells the same so it won't mater what type of clam or snail its from.

 

[StevenF]

I took another look at the nutritrace product site and Nutritrace CSM is one of several trace mixes they have.  Others have boron while the CSM does not. So you could solve the possible boron deficiency by changing to a different Nutritrace product. None of the products I saw had Calcium.

 

[cooledwhip]

If your lighting worked in the past and you have fresh bulbs less than 1 year old, lighting is probably not the problem.

 
I do the E.I. fert method with Potas nitrate, mono potas, and nutritrace + CSB or something CSM idk. 
 
I also do occasional flourish iron, flourish excel and I am starting to use co2 again. Not the best method, it's manual, and it doesn't have a solenoid. Basically its diy co2. I use a paintball can.

 That first line is so full of abbreviations and acronyms that it makes no sense at all to most people.  If people cannot understand it they can nothelp you.  Now if you wrote:
 
I use Estimative Index fertilization method with potassium nitrate, potassium phosphate and nutritrace.
 
Thatwould make more sense.  However 6 Google searches later I still canot figure out what "+ CSB or something CSM idk.".Means.I have no way of knowing if this is important  
 
Ibelieve your poroblem is no critical nutrient  rather than not enough. Plants Need:

 
 

• the macronutrients: nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), potassium (K), calcium (Ca), sulfur (S), magnesium (Mg); and
• the micronutrients (or trace minerals): boron (B), chlorine (Cl), manganese (Mn), iron (Fe), zinc (Zn), copper (Cu),molybdenum (Mo), nickel (Ni).

From https/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition

In my experience with very soft RO water, If you are short of just one of those your plants will not grow or even die.  You are covering nitrogen, potassium, phosphorous,and carbon (Excel or CO2)  But what about the rest?  The Nutritrace covers Magnesium,copper, iron, Molybdenum, zinc, manganese.  But what about the rest?  You water utility is under no obligation to insure the rest are in your water.   In fact they may not be there at all.
 
Chlorine and Sulfur are often present in most fertilizers because they help some metals dissolve in water. Such as zinc and nickel.  However many people using the Estimative index overlook CALCIUM!  Cacium is typically over abundant in soil and in hard water. So farmers and fertilizer companies typically overlook it.  but if your water is very soft you won't have it.  I also don't see Boron in your list.  It might be there or it might be not.  
 
You can easily correct for a calcium or magnesium deficiency by placing some decorative snail shells in the water. They are made of calcium and magnesium and will slowly dissolve over time.  All snails and clams make their shells the same so it won't mater what type of clam or snail its from.


Thank you for your reply Steven but it is hard to read with the NUMEROUS spelling and grammatical errors; it makes zero sense to most if not all people reading this. But, 6 google searches later and I have been able to understand what you mean, and get past the errors such as: "Thatwould", "nothelp", "canot", "Ibelieve", "Poroblem", as well as others. But like I said after my 6 google searches I can proceed to read your response.
 
 
I have some assassin snails and I do have some very small snail shells in the substrate, I think that is enough. You are very unclear in what I need to add, Thanks anyway buddy.

How old is the bulb?
Regarding a lack of roots in plants, if the plants are getting the nutrients they need from the water column, why grow extensive roots? I use low tech, and osmocote root tabs. The roots I get are fairly extensive... But only with my root feeders like Amazon swords and crypts. My stem plants on the other hand usually have just enough roots to hold in one place, and they'll get uprooted at times by my BN or cories.

I'd think that to get more extensive roots those plants would need to be getting more nutrients from their roots. Why would the plant waste energy building a root system it doesn't need?

Hey, I was doing a water change and just the water current uprooted some of the rotala indica. This is really irritating me, I can't grow a full forest of this plant because I believe after 6 months of a worn substrate, that is has used up all the good nutrients in the substrate. Keep in mind this is about 6 months old.
 
In the future tanks I set up, I will 100% dirt them. I already have a dirted tank outside and my plants are flourishing. As well as I did a small dirt coating in a 45 gallon I set up, the plants are reproducing so fast.
 
As for this problem, I do use the DIY root tabs, but they are too slippery for me and just slide right up and float up to the surface. I have just purchased a 40 pack of seachem root tabs. I will use lots of those in the substrate, hopefully that will change some stuff up. 
 
Steven's response was unclear, about what I need and it just confused me more. My tank is not lacking anything, my other plants are flourishing. my pearlweed is growing so fast I have to cut it three times a week. My S. Repens stalks have grown to heights of 5 inches ABOVE SUBSTRATE, NOT INCLUDING ROOTS.
 
I have decided this is 100% a substrate problem. I really wish I would have dirted this tank. I can't tear it down and restart, the aquascape I have set up is too perfect to get rid of. 

 

[StevenF]

Sorry about the text errors my keyboard is intermittently acting up.  The Space key was the major issue this morning.  You should have seen it right after i wrote it.  I tried to catch all of them but some did get through.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Sorry about the text errors my keyboard is intermittently acting up.  The Space key was the major issue this morning.  You should have seen it right after i wrote it.  I tried to catch all of them but some did get through.

I took care of that for you.