Ph Buffering

[pinkdolphin_113]

right, well hello! i am very interested in buffering my pH level of my aquarium water, as i have just spent £9.11 on 240grams of PROPER pH 6.5, for my breeding project. some may already know that I am going to be attempting to breed Corydoras Sterbai and Apistogramma Cacatuoides and that is why i have chosen a pH level of 6.5.

my only problem is, how the heck do i add this stuff?? it doesn't say how to adjust it while the fish are in the tank! lol

i don't have any baggies to put the fish in so i can't move them to another tank or anything, so i'm affraid i'm going to have to risk adjusting it while the fish are in there. if i do 10% water changes and use half the recommended dose in the water going into the tank, i thought this wouldn't be enough to put the fish under serious stress. or am i wrong here?
i know doing it this way is gonna take a few days if not a week but it's so hard to get hold of A.cactuoides in Scarborough so i don't want to lose my male that i already have.

the "rebound" process shouldn't happen because the stuff i'm using says it doesn't allow it to happen.

another thing i'm worried about is my sand. my science teacher, who also breeds fish but on a much more rarer/expensive scale, told me that silican in the sand (or something) will react with the pH buffer so it's best to use sand that doesn't contain that stuff, whatever it is. if anyone knows what i'm talkin about, how do i test for it?

the instructions also say that it shouldn't be used with live aquarium plants. why is this? i mean, its a phosphate pH buffer so it should stimulate root growth right?

thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Colin_T]

I would take it back and get a refund. Unless you are keeping wild caught fishes you do not have to lower the PH to 6.5 for the Apistogrammas. I bred mine in alkaline water with a PH of about 8.0.
In alkaline water they produce mostly male young. Slightly acid water gives a more balanced match of males & females. Really acid water gives more females.

You can add some of the PH buffer to a bucket of water and get the PH correct in the bucket. Then use the buffered water to do daily partial water changes. This will help to lower the PH slowly over the course of several days to a week or more. This should reduce the stress put on the fish by a sudden drop in PH.

I have heard of buffers stating not to be used in planted tanks. I have no idea why they say that when most of them have sodium biphosphate in and that doesn't affect plants. I guess it could be other ingredients that cause problems with the plants, or they are worried the phosphates might encourage algal growth on the plants.
Maybe contact the manufacturer and see what they have to say about it.

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

hmmmmmmmmm, thanks Colin T, you've helped me alot with getting my head around all this breeding lol i'm bringing it all together now.

this is also going towards my A-levels as we could chose to do a report on anything we wanted for coursework... as long as it included something scientific lol and i think all the talk about hydronium and hydroxide ion concentration and the equalibrium of acids and alkalis would do the trick = ] i find all the chemical equations solid as **** to understand though!

i was thinking that phosphate might cause an algae bloom but i have my handy little bristle nose to help me cope with that lol stimulated root growth would be good anyway wouldn't it? absorbing more nitrates/nitrites n all that stuff right?

so would it be a good idea to do another water change as soon as the temperature has stabilized? or should i keep it to just one a day?

 

[Colin_T]

I would do one partial water change per day using the buffered tap water.

Theoretically any phosphates in the buffer should encourage root development in the plants and help them grow better. And if you do get some algal growth the bristlenose should make short work of it.

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

ooops! i havent been on here over the weekend and lastnight i did 2 water changes with the pH buffer and 1 on friday. thats like a 30% water change over the past 2 days. is this to much?

my water has gone white/cloudy! does anyone know why?

 

[Colin_T]

That amount of water changes isn't too much as long. As long as the new water is free of chlorine you can do daily water changes indefinitely.

The white cloudy water could be excess food or something reacting with the buffer, possibly plant fertiliser.
Cut back on feeding for a few days and check the ammonia/ nitrite levels. If the water quality is fine it is most likely a reaction to the buffer.

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

i've checked the ammonia and nitrite levels, both are at 0.

i will leave the water changes for today and see if the cloudiness has cleared up when i get back from work tonight and tomorrow morning.

the pH test indicates that the pH level has dropped ever so slightly. only if i hold the tank water with normal tap water up against something white and look extra hard can you tell that the tank water has gone slightly lighter lol i'm getting there, just really slowly!

i havent actually fed my plants for about 3 months now but there could still be some of the fertiliser in the water i suppose.
i don't really wanna stop feeding my fish for a couple of days just incase the cloudiness is something that could kill them and lack of food might weeken their immune system right?
as i only feed them once on a sunday, hopefully there'll be some improvement by tonight!

 

[Colin_T]

If you haven't added plant fertiliser fro several months it won't be that reacting with the buffer.
There could be something else in the water that is reacting with the buffer instead. Try filling a glass of tap water and add some buffer to it. Stir it up and leave overnight. See if it goes cloudy. If it does then it is just the buffer in the water.

Unlike mammals that use most of the food they eat to keep warm, fish take their body temperature from the surrounding water. This means any food they eat goes towards muscle development and motion, (swimming). This means fish can go for weeks or even months without feeding. Obviously the longer they go without food the weaker they become physically and the more weakened their immune systems become. However a couple of days without food won't affect most well fed aquarium fish.
If you have baby fish they should be fed everyday, but if the fishes are adults then they will be fine missing the odd meal.

Poor water quality kills more fish than starvation.

 

[pastabake]

I wonder if the reason they give for not having plants is that they have an effect upon the buffer rather than the buffer harming them.

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

right, well i've buffered a pint of normal tap water, dechlorinated, and its shown no cloudiness at all so its something in my tank water, but what?

my tank water is still pretty cloudy but no fish are harmed what so ever... if anything, they've become healthier! my A. cacatuoides showed some colouration that i've never seen before!

on a more serious note though, i need to get my water clear again. is there anything obvious that i can do? i was thinking about some water changes without the buffer but that would just put my pH back up from whatever its dropped to.

am i going to have to take my plants out to lower my pH level now?

 

[Colin_T]

You could try a different buffer. I normally use sodium biphosphate. I know everybody hates it but it works and doesn't change the colour of the water.
You can use peat to drop the PH. Add some to a fine mesh bag and have it in the filter. Over time the PH will drop but it might also go brown due to the tannins released from the peat.
Don't take your plants out, there is no need for it.
If you want to spend lots of money you can use a CO2 system with a PH controller to drop the PH.

Personally I wouldn't bother about it unless your PH is over 8.0 and you are dealing with wild caught fish.

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

my tank water is still abit cloudy but now there are little white bits on the waters surface. abit like when a tank is set up without any form of circulation, the white film forms on the surface of the water. i've never known what that is.
anyway, its abit like that but it seems more crispy and it breaks up really easily. anyone have any ideas what this could be?
i am using dechlorinator which groups metals and stuff together so they can be filters from the water, could this have anything to do with it? like grouping something from my pH buffer together, making it float on top of the water.

during a water change, i have began to disolve the pH buffer in a cup of hot water whilest preparing the bucket of water going into my tank. i dechlorinate the water and leave it for about 5 minutes, then add the pH buffed hot water to the water going into the tank and leave it for about another 5 minutes. is this method fine? its just i'm paranoid of adding unreacted buffer to my aquarium.