HTH pool sand leeching kh

[galeslasher]

Have you tried the vinegar test on the sand? Carbonates and bicarbonates should result in CO2.

Would the reaction be instant when it takes this long to leech? I don't have vinegar on me at the moment, but I heard some have said one of the bottles of the nitrates test for API can behave the same (not sure how true that is, I'll have to research a little more)

I've only heard of this method for rocks and you have to scratch an opening in it first. Should I be trying to grind up the sand a little bit to kinda open them up a bit first?

I mean these ultimately are just different routes to get to the same conclusion at the end of the day. If I add it to RODI water, with nothing else in it, and the result is that the kh incrementally rises perpetually, we kinda have our answer, no? (And yes, the TDS and EC are also incrementally rising as well there is no point where it levels out, as time goes on, it rises more. This is close to about as open and shut as one can get imo)

 

[Boundava]

Hello again... Well, here is the natural progression!

See my previous thread for context, but the short of it is, I had play sand leeching kh so I asked for some suggestions from others of another sand that won't behave the same. Many recommend hth pool sand, since it was cheap and looked nice, I was happy to get it.

Well, egg on my face! This supposedly "100% silica" based sand is leeching kh too! So I come to ask the same question again

Is there ANY sand brand out there that WILL NOT leech kh? Is not composed of carbonates, 100% guaranteed?

I am trying to do blackwater in one tank and just generally do not want something in any of my tanks that will leech hardness of any type, but especially not alkalinity! My ph already trends high, so having kh leech is particularly bad in my situation!

Please don't recommend things if you aren't sure! I really really don't have a ton of money to throw at so many types of sand substrate for them to wind up being useless in my situation! Just trying to get this done, I don't mind paying more than I have been for the cheaper stuff if it means I 100% won't be dealing with any more hardness or alkalinity leeching! But it NEEDS to be a guarantee, not just an "eh, I'm pretty sure"

TYIA! The HTH looks lovely but I can't keep dealing with leeching, it's driving me nuts!

(Also please please please don't recommend stratum I get that it won't leech kh which is fun but it's not sand and I can't stand the way it looks/the price is insane)

((Also inb4 the questions on how I'm so sure it's the sand... Literal empty tanks with nothing but the sand, multiple tanks, and even tested in an empty container with just the sand and RODI water, interestingly, pool sand caused an instant change in the water, but HTH does take a few days, it's slower to leech but still noticable none the less, I have an increase to 3kh within 2 weeks))

I haven't trusted play/pool sands because of issues like this, also the cleaning of them is not worth the cost IMO.

RE vinegar test, lemon juice will work too and if the substance has calcium it will fizz, though some things aren't as obvious as others so you have to listen for the fizz sound vs looking for bubbles

I use Red Flint Sand which is a water filtration sand available in many of my LFS. It comes in different grit sizes from a fine to coarse sand. I have always had good luck with it being and staying inert.

 

[Fishmanic]

from a search on AI
Pool filter sand is made of pure, kiln-dried silica (quartz) and has a neutral pH of 7.0. Because it is completely inert, it will not affect, buffer, or alter your swimming pool's water chemistry or pH levels. [1, 2, 3, 4]

 

[Essjay]

heard some have said one of the bottles of the nitrates test for API can behave the same (not sure how true that is, I'll have to research a little more)

API nitrate bottle #1 contains hydrochloric acid. Acid + carbonate in the presence of water react to form carbon dioxide. Any acid will do this be it hydrochloric acid in API nitrate #1 or acetic acid in vinegar or citric acid in lemon juice - these all have water in as well so it's not necessary to add any.

 

[galeslasher]

from a search on AI
Pool filter sand is made of pure, kiln-dried silica (quartz) and has a neutral pH of 7.0. Because it is completely inert, it will not affect, buffer, or alter your swimming pool's water chemistry or pH levels. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Ai isn't reliable or accurate, certainly shouldn't be used to fact check or clear up information. It's just scrubbing other fish forums of users making this claim. Nowhere does HTH claim their sand is 100% silica, it claims to be silica based. These are two different things, there is a base volume of the sand that is silica based, but it is likely being cut with sand from local quarries. I will say it does seem HTH has more silica than the play sand does, which is why it is a bit more expensive and takes longer to leech, but it 100% has carbonates present, which I can now prove.

Hi all, I'm back again, it did take a bit longer than in the original tank and the plastic sample cup for the kh to develop in the GENUINELY 100% inert glass cup which has never touched aquarium supplies, has never had carbonates in it, literally a glass cup from the kitchen which has only ever seen water. Dried out, no carbonates present on any day until the past 2. I filled it to the brim with the HTH, added my RODI water which is still to this day, carbonates free. The glass cup has now developed kh. There is literally no other explanation for this, it is an inert glass cup, there is no room for human error here, haven't touched any carbonates near that cup, or at all. Since I added that sand, I have done nothing with my tanks. Cup with sand developed kh, source RODI didn't.

Lemon juice didn't do anything but I mean, there is flat out no other explanation for what's going on here. I assume the volume of carbonates is small enough that it won't react, or maybe I put too much juice. Idk. I can say that there are a lot of suspicious granuals in this sand that are opaque white and they stand out significantly against the other granuals which are a lot more natural in color and some of them semi transparent.

I haven't trusted play/pool sands because of issues like this, also the cleaning of them is not worth the cost IMO.

RE vinegar test, lemon juice will work too and if the substance has calcium it will fizz, though some things aren't as obvious as others so you have to listen for the fizz sound vs looking for bubbles

I use Red Flint Sand which is a water filtration sand available in many of my LFS. It comes in different grit sizes from a fine to coarse sand. I have always had good luck with it being and staying inert.

To you, I owe my life lol THANK YOU for this recommendation, this is a brand I had never heard of before so I can add them to my possibilities for moving forward.

In the meantime, anybody interested in some carbonates rich hth? Pick up only in carbonates rich NY

 

[Uberhoust]

HTH sand according to the SDS sheets is >99% silica https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/99/99a1da70-7cb7-4c0f-9520-0ecdcc905819.pdf. It is still possible to have a small amount of carbonates in the sand, but not likely.

 

[galeslasher]

HTH sand according to the SDS sheets is >99% silica https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/99/99a1da70-7cb7-4c0f-9520-0ecdcc905819.pdf. It is still possible to have a small amount of carbonates in the sand, but not likely.

Id be interested to see a more recent version of this, since it was dated 2018, so sure, perhaps the ones who were available at that time this was likely accurate. But it's also possible this has changed since then and home Depot as a 3rd party seller just hasn't updated the sheets.

 

[galeslasher]

Hi chat, I wanted to give this thread it's appropriate conclusion in case anybody else were to stumble upon it with the same issue:

It was indeed the hth sand!

I switched over to carribsea super naturals, an absolutely gorgeous line with beautiful color options, and the issue is no longer present!

In tanks where I had switched to the hth, kh and pH continued to increase over time, and no amount of water changes would alleviate it. Now that hth is no longer in any of the tanks, this problem is 100% solved.

I'm in no way knocking or calling liar to the folks who have had success with hth in the past, just sharing my own experience. If you had success with then prior to 2020 when most cost cutting measures were taken for companies both large and small, this makes a lot of sense. Since we have as of yet been unable to locate an information sheet dated after 2020 (current one as mentioned is dated 2018) I cannot determine exactly how much they were willing to cut, but it is now in my mind, 100% provable that they have cut some amount with a carbonate rich substance, likely mined out locally to me. Considering NY is largely build upon limestone, this is not shocking. So! If you're also experiencing trouble with hth pool sand chasing pH and kh spikes in your aquarium (or even pool) now you know why! And I can attest that at the very least, the super naturals line from carribsea is as of the current date a safe option, albeit a bit more pricy. But it was well worth the cost to me for not having to worry about this problem anymore.

 

[Boundava]

Yeah, sometimes trying to get something at a lower cost can result in it costing more overall, guess that's where the pay for what you get saying comes in, lol.

 

[GaryE]

The bottom line to me is there are no brand names in nature. A pool sand company should sell a pH neutral, stable product. And oil companies, tobacco companies should... corners get cut and sand is unbranded, just collected by companies who probably sub contract, etc.

You did the right thing to test and compare. Over the years, I've had several pool and play sand sources, and only hit a couple of bad ones. The pool sand I've gotten has been dead solid. That means nothing. You could buy a lot with the same brand on the bag and get a totally different quarry.

My best source for years was a local pool store that could have 3 different colours of sand. I'd always check a torn bag to be sure. Who knew when a 4th would appear? All were neutral, and all were the same brand in spite of their being different colours.