Play sand leeching Kh

[galeslasher]

Anybody experience similar? I've been using quickrete play sand for years and thought it was fine, and pure silica. But after seeing my tank I'm trying to convert blackwater keep raising kh, I took everything out except the sand and started testing all the decor in a separate bucket.

I put one at a time the decor in a bucket of RO water, and saw no raise in KH. Check back to the tank, which has nothing now but play sand and almond leaves... The kh is rising!

I can't find much info on this at all, I assume nobody else was going to notice or care about something like this, or say the raise is menial and not important. I don't have a ton of sand in there, but it raises up my kh to 1 in less than a week. Now I'm not sure how to move forward. I thought play sand was pure silicates with no carbonates, so what sand can I use that won't do this? Would putting a bed of stratum under my sand help with this at all? I'm worried I'll never get my blackwater biotope ( is there any brand for sand we know for certain won't do this?

 

[anewbie]

Did you try putting the play ssand in a glass container with ro water and test it after a few weeks - it need to be fresh play sand from teh bag. Also is it kh only that is rising or tds. Remember decaying leaves will significantly increase tds.

As for your specific question i use hth pool filter sand without issue but have never used quickrete play sand - however i have had to test several substrate in the above method after i saw significant rise in tds (which turned out to be decaying leaves and other bits).

Don't use a plastic container as they can leach.

 

[galeslasher]

Did you try putting the play ssand in a glass container with ro water and test it after a few weeks - it need to be fresh play sand from teh bag. Also is it kh only that is rising or tds. Remember decaying leaves will significantly increase tds.

As for your specific question i use hth pool filter sand without issue but have never used quickrete play sand - however i have had to test several substrate in the above method after i saw significant rise in tds (which turned out to be decaying leaves and other bits).

Don't use a plastic container as they can leach.

I am not testing TDS, I am testing kh with API kh test. I'm testing tank right now and was going to test the remainder of my unused sand a little later just to 100% confirm but I really wanted to know what to do when that test is positive too. I seen one other post where someone says this happened but said it stopped after a few months, but I been using this sand for years so it never stopped leeching. I was testing others in home Depot bucket with no measurable raise in KH so the bucket isn't leeching like the sand in the tank is. What kind of pool filter sand did you use? I wanted one that is sand colored light beige or even medium brownish but not black or red. Thank

 

[galeslasher]

Sorry, I seen now you said hth it's a brand I thought it was a typo (my autocorrect does very silly things like that)

Is the grain small enough to be safe for fishes like corycat? I'm glad it's not a horrible price!

 

[anewbie]

Sorry, I seen now you said hth it's a brand I thought it was a typo (my autocorrect does very silly things like that)

Is the grain small enough to be safe for fishes like corycat? I'm glad it's not a horrible price!

Yea i use it for my larger whiptails and dwarf cichild. It is around 0.5mm and mostly rounded.

 

[GaryE]

Playsand, whatever the brand on the bag, comes from many different quarries and can have radically different percentages of clay or other impurities. We had a local quarry where I lived before that sold directly, and was some of the best I've had in tanks, with a rinsing loss rate of under 10%. If I went to a store 10km away from that source, rinsing the sand flushed away more than half of it.

A person in the next town may not be able to comment accurately. I have had very different Quikrete sand, bag to bag and year to year. It's safe, and rated for a play places, but for fishtanks, it's a gamble.

 

[galeslasher]

Playsand, whatever the brand on the bag, comes from many different quarries and can have radically different percentages of clay or other impurities. We had a local quarry where I lived before that sold directly, and was some of the best I've had in tanks, with a rinsing loss rate of under 10%. If I went to a store 10km away from that source, rinsing the sand flushed away more than half of it.

A person in the next town may not be able to comment accurately. I have had very different Quikrete sand, bag to bag and year to year. It's safe, and rated for a play places, but for fishtanks, it's a gamble.

This explains a lot, thanks.
Because I've also got it in other tanks that struggled with kh in the past, but I've used 3 bags over the years. I just tested it again from the same bag (I had half left) just dumped some of it in RO water, and it spiked up instantly above 2kh. so sad as it's very cheap and I quite like the color but what a gamble indeed
Is this an issue of every type of sand? Are there any brands that are 100% guaranteed to be silicates or quartz based with no carbonates? My other tanks are fine to have some kh so I can keep using it in them, but for my blackwater this won't do at all, but it's only a 10g and 20g so I don't need a ton of it.

 

[gwand38 154]

I use pool sand which doesn’t raise my kh or GH.

 

[TwoTankAmin32]

The only sand I have ever used and have done so now for about 12-14 years is the Carib Sea Torpedo Beach sand. I picked it because I was told by somebody who has visited all the rivers where Altum angels are found that the Torpedo beach looked the most like what he saw in many of the Altum habitats.

Torpedo Beach – A small grain size substrate with an off-white appearance.
Typical Size: 0.5 – 2.0mm
Average Density: 94 pounds per cubic foot

So, I took a shot and search google for "quikrete play sand raising KH" and here is what came back:

Quikrete play sand is generally considered safe and inert for aquariums, but it can potentially raise KH and pH slightly, especially if it contains calcium carbonate contaminants. While many users report it is inert, others have noted it can alter water chemistry over time.

The source for this was listed as

Google went on noting the following from the same source:

• Impact on Chemistry: Some users report Quikrete Play Sand increases both General Hardness (GH) and Carbonate Hardness (KH), leading to higher pH.
• Suitability: It is often recommended for African Cichlid tanks (which prefer high pH/KH) but may not be ideal for soft-water, low-pH tanks.
• Preparation: It is crucial to wash Quikrete play sand thoroughly, as it is extremely dusty.
• Alternative: Many hobbyists prefer Quikrete Pool Filter Sand as it is generally more inert, has larger grain sizes, and is less likely to compact or cause high pH than play sand.
• Caution: If your tank's pH or KH rises, consider switching to an inert substrate or monitoring for calcium content. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

Both the above quotes are from here: Google on Quikrete Play Sand

 

[galeslasher]

The only sand I have ever used and have done so now for about 12-14 years is the Carib Sea Torpedo Beach sand. I picked it because I was told by somebody who has visited all the rivers where Altum angels are found that the Torpedo beach looked the most like what he saw in many of the Altum habitats.


So, I took a shot and search google for "quikrete play sand raising KH" and here is what came back:



The source for this was listed as

Google went on noting the following from the same source:



Both the above quotes are from here: Google on Quikrete Play Sand

I've thought about caribesea but wasn't sure because I heard they use argonite which will do the same thing. Has the torpedo beach you've used ever raised your kh?

 

[anewbie]

I've thought about caribesea but wasn't sure because I heard they use argonite which will do the same thing. Has the torpedo beach you've used ever raised your kh?

argonite is explicitly for lake fishes that want high gh. If you go caribsea i'd recommend the slightly finer crystal river but avoid moonshine.

hth pool filter sand is about the same as crystal river but (a) doesnt' require washing and (b) is a little smoother. I've used all three. If you use crystal river or torpedo beach they will require washing.

 

[GaryE]

Aquarium specific sand can be expensive. Play sand is cheap, but if you're in California, they aren't going to ship it from Louisiana. They'll access locally as it's heavy stuff. The name on the bag doesn't matter.

I get Quikrete on the easy coast of Canada. It's better quality than what I got in Central Canada, but not as good as a few not major name suppliers. If I'm in need and in Home Depot, that's what they sell. I do better at garden centres and other reno places.

Pool filter sand has to be neutral, so colour becomes your issue. I can get white or brown here. I used to be able to get dark grey. The largest local pool place has realized it has an aquarist clientele, so they show you samples. It's slightly coarser than playsand, but no matter where I've bought it, it has worked for corys and eartheaters.

I often mix it with play sand, well rinsed.

 

[bgarthe39 56]

I know black blasting sand does not raise KH. I went from natural and white fine gravel for 50+ years to the black substrate a few years ago. It really makes the fish pop.

 

[anewbie]

I know black blasting sand does not raise KH. I went from natural and white fine gravel for 50+ years to the black substrate a few years ago. It really makes the fish pop.

It can leach - maybe not kh but some times it has a lot of bits of iron in it and other impurities. I know a lot of people use it with success but the designed application does not require any sort of purity.

 

[TwoTankAmin32]

Hare is the two things I left out in my post re Torpedo Beach sand. A finer sand becomes hard to vacuum because it is easy to suck out the sand and aleave the things I want to vacuum out. While I started with the sand in the Altum tank, it fairly quickly became my choice of sand in my pleco breeding and grow tanks, It is also in my shrimp tanks which may have lots of plants rooted in it as well. When I uses a thin layer I have the plants atahed to wood and rocks and also in pots.

Yes this sand is normally pricey, but I began accumulating it well over 15 years ago. Back then Drsforstersdmith.com still existed as Live aauaria had not purchased it, fostersmith used to do summer sales where the=they offered free shipping which they also appliec to heavy items which normally had an extra charge to ship. I was still ramoing up my tank count towards 20 and I was buying sti=uff almos every 10 to 14 days. During the summer sales I was adding a couple or three 20 pound bags of the sand prices at a discount and with free shipping.

I used this offer for two summers and acquired a few 100 pounds in total. I am not a fan of pool sand in tanks which is the result of using it our pool filter. When this sand is new it has somewhathsrp edges. This helps it to do the filtration work better. The sand tumbles around in the filter. This causes the grains to become more rounded over time and as this progesses the filter works less well. Eventually, we have to replace the sand to regain the maximum filtration capacity. This fact was enough to put me off of using pool filter sand.

If I could have accumulated the used smoothed sand I might have done so but I did not want to wait for a few years for some and then do what it took to rinse it properly. While i am certainly not filthy rich or even close, I began keeping fish in my early 50s and my financial situtation was decent by then. It only imporved in the ensuing decade. More important was the fact that my breeding of the B&W plecos paid for all of my hobby costs. The did this first for their cost and then paid me back for all that I had spent before I started with the plecos. I have been very lucky in this respect and my success was also due to a lot of help from some really great folks.

I have not had any issues with pH drifting up that wasn;t due to parameter changes in my well water. When there is a surplus of rain over extended time thew TDS and pH tend to drop. When the reverse applies the parameters tend to move in the opposite direction. In the last few years conditions have been on the dry side and the result was the parameters in the Altum tank tended to drift upward between water changes. I had started with a 50/5O mix of RO/DI and my tap but I had to change that to closer to 60/40.

I do not use sand in all of my tanks. I started using a small pebble size gravel in tanks and still have this in 3 of my 11 remaining tanks. The gravel is inert and the same parameter changes I have seen in my sand bottom tanks also happens in the gravel bttom tanks as well.

Over the last 25+ years my tap has had TDS as low as 53 ppm and as high as about 116. The pH has been at a low of about 6.8 to a high if 7.3. Normal is 83 ppm TDS and 7.0 pH. When I ran my high tech planted tank with pressurized CO2 I used to run a small bag of crushed coral in the canister filter to hoild up the kH. That tank used the fine gravel.

I once chatted with the folks at Carib Sea. I told them how much Ilikes the Torpedo Beach and asked from where they got it. They said on from a beach somewhere in Florida. They would not be more specific than that.