On The Right Track... I Hope

[RobynR]

Still plugging away, just nothing big to report. Ammonia is disappearing within 12 hours, but the nitrites are still as high as my test kit will read. Went ahead and added some corkscrew vals and a couple of aponogeton bulbs last week to get the plants established and they seem to be doing well. One of the aponogeton bulbs has already sprouted and is a few inches tall, and the vals died back a little and are now putting out new leaves.

Think I've settled on my final stocking plan, which will be 5-6 corys, 1 German Blue Ram, 6 marbled hatchetfish, and some cardinal tetras. LFS guy seemed to think 6-9 would work with the tank and the other fish I'm planning, but I'll take it slow and see how the bioload looks.

 

[waterdrop]

Sounds good! Nice fish ideas! ~wd~

 

[OldMan47]

You need to be aware that the plants will use nitrogen to grow. I like my vals too but they are going to act like nitrogen sponges and make interpreting your progress slightly harder. In the long run, if you have enough fast growing plants, you theoretically do not need to cycle a tank because the plants will take care of everything. I am never confident enough to do that so I always do a filter clone first, then add plants and fish.

 

[RobynR]

OldMan47 -- thanks for the tip! I suspect the amount of plants I have won't make too much difference. I bought one little clump of vals from PetsMart for $1.50, and it turned out to be four separate small plants (5-6 leaves each?) about 6" tall. Not a very thick planting by any means. As for the aponogeton, one hasn't sprouted yet and the other has three leaves with the tallest being maybe 4-5". Would I be correct in assuming that won't throw off my results too much? I'm still showing lots of nitrites and nitrates in the tank, and the plants have been in there since 6/24. Also, I have pretty low lighting on there, so they won't be very fast growing. I wasn't entirely certain they'd survive, but they seem to be acclimating.

Hopefully I won't regret putting the plants in early, but it's easier on my budget to buy small plants )or bulbs) and I wanted to get a little growth before I add fish that might want them for cover. Also, thought it would be best to make sure the plants I chose will survive before I have fish in there too.

 

[OldMan47]

The small planting that you have won't affect the readings very much. As far as small plants, they all get bigger and eventually reproduce so there is no reason to buy big plants except for the instant gratification factor.

 

[waterdrop]

I know I should look this up but am I not remembering correctly that Vals, all the vals I guess(?), are somewhat distinct in liking (or flourishing more) in a somewhat hard, alkaline environment? (as opposed to the many plants out there that like a more soft, acid environment?) Or perhaps I'm generalizing just too much... its just that there was something about vals, lol.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[RobynR]

Woohoo! Nitrites were down to .8 this morning instead of turning dark red the moment I start adding the drops from the second bottle (using Tetra Test, plan to buy API when these run out). First time I've seen any sort of drop in nitrites. Hopefully we'll have quick process through the rest of the cycle and I can add fish sometime relatively soon.

Incidentally, which of my fish would be best to add first? I thought maybe corys, cardinals, ram and then hatchets (figuring the ram and hatchets will be most sensitive to water quality so I want to be absolutely certain everything is stable), but I may be wrong on that.

Quick edit to make sure this isn't misinterpreted: I know NOT to add fish yet, and even when everything is zeroed out I need to take a week or so to make sure I don't have fluctuations. Just asking ahead of time rather than waiting till the last minute.

12 hours after adding ammonia, my nitrites are at 1.8 and my ammonia at 0. My pH seems to be hanging just a little over 7, but definitely closer to 7 than to 7.5.

 

[RobynR]

This morning (after 24 hours) nitrites were at .3 and ammonia at 0. Hooray!

 

[m00se]

This morning (after 24 hours) nitrites were at .3 and ammonia at 0. Hooray!

Good work! Major milestone when you can clear both ammonia and nitrates in 24 hours. Head for the 12 hour times!

 

[waterdrop]

Its a very good milestone to have nitrites(NO2) drop! And in your case the N-Bac population also seems to be growing very fast and taking you right on to the next goal of zero within 12h. Please be aware that many people find a "sticking point" right at the end where a very tiny bit of nitrite keeps showing up at 12 hours. This can be very frustrating after the victory of not having nitrites spiked all the time, but it will eventually go away, if it even happens to you, which we don't know yet of course. You might just drop straight to double-zeros and be able to start your qualifying week, which I see by your post that you already understand about. In our experience here, that week seems to make things really solid and catches a lot of filters that weren't quite ready despite having shown a double-zero!

Your plan sounds good except for the cardinal tetras. These are the classic "wait 4 or 6 months (!) -after- the fishless cycle (!) before first introduction fish. This is a recommendation made from observations of members and not based on any specific tests or chemistry anybody has found so far but the observations continue to come out as accurate. There are hundreds of chemicals in a tank that we can't measure because its too involved or expensive and so we just measure the easiest ones and the ones like ammonia and nitrite that are known to be a big deal. There's something about "new" water that cardinals and neons don't do well in, but whatever it is it seems to be gone after several months and by then they should do great. For cories it goes by individual cory types - most of the larger ones except pandas can be introduced and are good right away. The pygmy types and the pandas I'd be careful about. The hatchets I can't remember... and the Rams you might want to wait for davo or other bigger fish experts to comment on but I assume this might be a bit expensive and a "centerpiece" sort of fish so some people also wait a bit on these for those reasons, but I could be completely wrong on that.

You are doing great on your patience and planning, keep it up!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[RobynR]

Ah, I was wondering if Cardinals were going to be quite as sensitive as Neons. I know the hatchets are supposed to be really sensitive, and I went back and forth a lot on whether or not I think I'll be successful in keeping them. I think the rams are also somewhat sensitive, depending a little on the specific type of ram. They cost about $15 at my LFS, so the price isn't terrible but I'd be more concerned about the fish than the money -- don't want to kill it or make it suffer.

Doing my best to stay patient, although I admit I was getting pretty frustrated with no progress on the nitrites for so long! But if you know your water's deadly, you can't exactly go and buy some fish to put in it. Seeing progress is giving me a second wind, although I'm wondering how I'll do with waiting 4-6 months to add anything on my list but the corys...

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, my feeling is that you're homing in on being exactly correct about all 3 fish. I believe blue rams (GBRs), which are so beautiful and apparently nice tankmates, need good water all along and are somewhat sensitive if things go wrong.

Actually, I'm only remembering vaguely about hatchets, which I had plenty of once upon a time, so I'd really enjoy hearing the fruits of some research or some expertise from other members... suppose this would be appropriate for one of the species forums, but...

Yes, cards are perhaps a "tad" tougher than neons but not much really. I've had lots of cards but have neons this time around and am really enjoying them. I sort of like getting a little more of the blue color and having the silver in there but still getting the strong splash of red, they really are an amazing attention getter...

Yes the patience is very tough, no getting around it.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[RobynR]

Since you've had both cards and neons, have you noticed many differences in behavior? I like that they're a touch hardier, and the coloring, but I'd also heard and read that they tend to stay a little higher in the tank than neons do. I'm sure it depends a lot on the individual setup, but that was a factor in the decision. Also, the guy at the LFS where I plan to buy all my fish said that with the corys and GBR in the lower levels, the cards will hang out a little higher in the tank than they would otherwise -- thus filling out my midlevels and leaving the very top for the hatchets. Does that sound right? I don't want to overcrowd everyone in the lower levels of the tank if that's wrong.

 

[waterdrop]

Oh you're just bored!! You're going to be pleasantly surprised with how much exploration these living creatures do in your tank. These comments people make are very, very general. One of the delights of a tank is watching the -other- behaviors that these fish will often do that are quite different from their "norm."

~~waterdrop~~
ps. of course maybe I'm maybe I'm just not answering the question cause I've never noticed the subtle thing of a difference in neon and card depth... come to think of it my neons don't mind schooling in lower areas during parts of the day. They sure will go for it up high when there's food though, lol.

 

[RobynR]

Yeah, I'm overthinking things, I'm sure. But at least that's better than underthinking, right? While cycling I've changed my stocking plan at least three times, but for the better I think. For example, no more angelfish! I'm looking forward to adding fish, but trying to keep myself patient in the meantime by doing all the research I can so I'm not caught off guard. Also, I really want a tank that I can get set up and just leave alone in terms of stocking. Trying to make sure everything in there will do well in the same conditions and not have issues with aggression or anything.

This morning's results were the same: ammonia 0, nitrites .3 or possibly a little lower, but definitely not 0.