New Tank

[OldMan47]

The ammonia and nitrite being zeros is good news. Have you been adding ammonia to the tank for the filter to process or is that a tap water reading?
The Aquaplus is a dechlorinator. It is all you should need to add when you do a water change. The other products are mostly sold to extract money from your pocket and put it in the LFS pockets. As you observed, adding all manner of chemicals and concoctions to a functioning tank will probably do more harm than good. I use Seachem Prime rather than the Aquaplus because it ends up being much cheaper in actual use. It only takes 1 ml to treat 40 litres of water so it costs almost nothing per dose. Unless you use your existing filter, you have an uncycled tank. I would be certain to use whatever filter has been supporting the fish for at east a month before trying to run a tank with only a new filter.

 

[szatek]

Hi OldMan,

I was adding Nutrafin Cycle for last three days (Saturday to Monday) according to instructions on the package. Apparently it was supposed to set the tank up in no time. The problem is that I cannot put my old filter in as it's still in my old tank where I keep my fish. I guess I could move parts of the foam and biomax bio rings from old filter to new one. I will do partial water change today. Do you think it's a good idea to move some water from the old tank to the new one as well ?

Cheers,

 

[waterdrop]

Hi szatek,

Since your new tank appears to be uncycled (doesn't yet have the working biofilter that should precede a fish introduction) and your two goldfish need to be maintained in a healthy environment in their current tank in the meantime, it would seem that one of your options would be a mature media clone process on the filter in the new tank.

This assumes there isn't some immediate urgency to dismantling the current tank. One advantage of this process is that most of your new media in the new filter can be used and cycled, as opposed to a lot of it being displaced by all the old media coming over in a straight move of the fish and media. (Note that for the MM-Clone process I'm about to describe, you need to have a good liquid test kit and a supply of pure household ammonia, as described for our fishless cycling process in many places here in the beginners section.)

In an MM Clone process you identify about 1/3 of the current biomedia (if you are unsure which of the different media types in your current filter constitute biomedia and which aren't then the members can probably help) for moving over to the new filter. You often have to be creative about this. Sometimes sponges have to be cut with scissors or media of one type ends up getting mixed with media of another type. You have to figure out how and where you will make space for the old media in the new filter. You also may need to prepare by purchasing new media for the old filter to fill in the removed portions so that it will maintain its tightness and not allow water to leak past, unfiltered.

Once you've figured out all the logistics, you just make the media move, being careful to keep all media wet if you get distracted in the midst of the process. While you have the current(old) filter out for the process, you should also "clean" it (the rest of its media that is going to stay in it) -inside- the new aquarium, just as if the new aquarium were a cleaning bucket. You should gently squeeze the leftover sponge and/or swish any trays of loose media in the new tank. This will make a bit of a mess in your new tank but the new filter will soon clean it up and it will help with the cycle.

Once the filters are closed back up and things are running properly again (you may need to do some slight tilting of your new fluval external to help the air bubbles work out after its primed and running) you will be performing what we think of as a shortened fishless cycle. You will need to have read the "Nitrogen Cycle" and "Fishless Cycle" articles in our Beginners Resource Center and you will need to begin a Fishless Cycling thread with a daily log showing:
Day X, (12 vs 24Hr test), Temp, Ammonia(NH3) result, Nitrite(NO2) result, pH result, Nitrate(NO3) result, Redose Indicator (indication of re-dose ppm or No redose), other observations such as water clarity etc. [ideally all this fits on one line]
Not all tests are performed all the time by any means and the members will no doubt help you out with that aspect.

When a 1/3 mature media move comes into a new filter it often only takes a couple weeks or less to cycle the filter and get it qualified. A good way to qualify a filter is to verify that for a week it can take a 5ppm concentration of ammonia (dosed to the tank water each day) and process that into a zero ppm ammonia and zero ppm nitrite(NO2) reading each day at the 12 hour mark after it was dosed. Bacterial colonies and their biofilms are often disturbed by a move between filters and so often take 3 days or so to "settle down" after they are moved.

The other option is to move -all- the current media into the new filter and move the fish at the same time and then peform a number of large water changes and "Fish-In Cycle" the tank until it stabilizes. Since you currently have a bacterial bloom (the cloudy water) and you have a large (200L/53G?) tank, this would not be my top recommendation.

Hope this helps a little. I'm sure there are plenty of members who will help along the way.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Wills]

I agree 100% with waterdrop

Tank looks good not normally a fan of fake decor but they look really good

Wills

 

[szatek]

Hi waterdrop,

First of all I would like to thank you for your very helpful update. I went through Beginners Resource Centre couple of times already but because you referred the tips to my case it's much clearer for me now.

I've got only one question with regards to household ammonia. I did a quick search on the Internet and found out that I can get household ammonia from local Boots store. Will that do the trick or does it have to be specific type of ammonia (density, brand, etc) ?

I will keep posting results of my cycle. I have got three weeks to establish that tank because afterwards I'm going for holiday for two weeks. I hope that will be enough time.

Best regards,

PS. Thanks Wills. My wife was the one who chose those plants. I have to admit that I was surprised as well that they look so good. I might think of live plants in future though.

 

[szatek]

Hi All,

I got Household Ammonia from Boots. According to the label it contains Ammonia Solution 9.5%. I noticed the same value in above calculator so I hope it's the correct one. I moved 1/3 of media to the new filter, installed air pump, added 10 ml of Ammonia and run some tests using Api Freshwater Master Test Kit. Here are the results which I will update every day.

DAY 00, 00 Hr, 25[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate 40 ppm, pH N/A, tap water
DAY 01, 24 Hr, 25[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 5.0 ppm, Nitrite N/A, Nitrate N/A, pH 8.3, 10 ml of Ammonia added, cloudy water
DAY 02, 24 Hr, 24[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 4.0 ppm, Nitrite N/A, Nitrate N/A, pH 8.3, no Ammonia added, water much clearer, switched heater on
DAY 03, 24 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 4.0 ppm, Nitrite N/A, Nitrate N/A, pH 8.3, no Ammonia added, no change in water clarity
DAY 04, 24 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 4.0 ppm, Nitrite 1.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, pH 8.3, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 05, 24 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 4.0 ppm, Nitrite 2.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, pH 8.3, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 06, 24 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 3.0 ppm, Nitrite 2.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, pH 8.3, no Ammonia added, slightly clowdy water
DAY 07, 24 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 3.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.5 ppm, Nitrate 120 ppm, pH 8.3, no Ammonia added, slightly clowdy water
DAY 08, 24 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 2.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.25 ppm, Nitrate N/A, pH 8.3, no Ammonia added, slightly clowdy water
DAY 09, 24 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 1.5 ppm, Nitrite 0.5 ppm, Nitrate N/A, pH 8.3, no Ammonia added, water back to crystal clear
DAY 10, 24 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.5 ppm, Nitrite 5.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, pH 8.3, 6 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 10, 01 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 4.0 ppm, Nitrite N/A, Nitrate N/A, ph N/A, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 11, 24 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 5.0+ ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 6 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 12, 24 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 5.0+ ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 7 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 13, 12 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 5.0+ ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 13, 12 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 3.5 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 14, 10 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.5 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 14, 15 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 7 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 15, 11 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.25 ppm, Nitrite 5.0+ ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 15, 12 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 7 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 16, 10 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 5.0+ ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 16, 12 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 7 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 17, 12 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 5.0+ ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 17, 12 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 7 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 18, 12 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.5 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 18, 12 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 8 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 19, 14 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 19, 14 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 9 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 20, 12 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 2.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 20, 08 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, 9 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 21, 12 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.25 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 21, 12 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, 10 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 22, 12 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.25 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 22, 14 Hr, 29[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.3, 10 ml of Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 23, 10 Hr, 28[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 5.0+ ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.0, no Ammonia added, crystal clear water
DAY 23, 12 Hr, 24[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, fish added, crystal clear water
DAY 24, 12 Hr, 24[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, happy fish, crystal clear water
DAY 25, holiday
|
DAY 30, holiday
DAY 40, N/A Hr, 23[sup]o[/sup]C, Ammonia 0.0 ppm, Nitrite 0.0 ppm, Nitrate N/A, ph 8.2, happy fish, crystal clear water, brown algea

Cheers,

 

[szatek]

Just a quick question about fishless cycle. Should I switch the light off as someone mentioned that it might cause algea bloom.

 

[waterdrop]

I recommend you keep the light mostly off but for a different reason, promotion of algae. Algae spores are triggered by light and tiny amounts of ammonia and can go wild under fishless cycling conditions, but lack of light will keep this from happening. It doesn't mean you can turn the light on when examining the tank or doing your tests and so forth or even if you want to sit there for a while and see the light on! The autotrophs that we grow in the filter are also inhibited by light, this is why most filters are not clear, but its not a big deal as far as the bacteria go.

Bacterial blooms (these, again, are different species of bacteria than the two species we're trying so hard to establish in the biofilter) are extremely common. They are harmless and will go away, no need to worry about them once you are off and cycling with good guidance. Once you've experienced or seen them its quite easy to distinguish between the milky gray/white bacterial bloom (truly identitical to putting a little milk in water!) from the greenish cast of an algae bloom. Bacterial blooms in an established tank that's running with fish are a different matter and often a sign of problems.

Now we get to one of the classic problems with cold freshwater fishlesss cycles. Unlike the coldwater fish, the bacteria are encouraged to grow faster if their water temp is warmer. But usually coldwater hobbyists are happy not to have to pay for a heater they won't need. If you somehow have a heater then it will be ideal to bring your tank temp up to 84F/29C for the fishless cycle. In your case, we are going with mature media, so that may save us from worrying about the heater if the clone takes off and lives.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[szatek]

Hi waterdrop,

Thank you very much once again for all tips.

I will be switching the lights on only when needed from now on.

I switched the heater on as the temperature dropped to 24 [sup]o[/sup]C. I guess now I have to be patient and wait for results. I will keep updating above records.

Best regards,

 

[szatek]

I must have misread readings on DAY01 because it stopped on 4.0 ppm.

 

[szatek]

I tested Nitrite as I was worried by no decrease in Ammonia test. I think something is happening. There is trace of Nitrite.

 

[waterdrop]

Most non-cloned fishless cycles don't see any nitrite(NO2) for the first 3 weeks or so, so the very fact that you've seen some nitrite in a few days probably means that some of the bacteria brought over from the older filter are alive and doing their thing. Remember, no matter what you do, filters and bacteria are not "quick" things, lol.

WD

 

[szatek]

Fingers crossed. I will definitely wait until my tank is fully prepared for both fish. I think OldMan mentioned in one of the topics that there is some equation stating that 1ppm of Ammonia transfers into 2.38ppm of Nitrite. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers,

 

[JoshuaA]

1 Ammonia > 2.7 Nitrite... I think

Just puts into perspective how many more N Bacs you need than A Bacs, or that the N bacs are lot greedier than the A Bacs!

 

[szatek]

Exactly. I think there is no point in measuring Nitrite for now is there ?