New Tank. New Fishkeeper..

[zawar8686]

Fluttermoth, I realise its not a big tank, that's why I want to decide what I can and can't get before I am ready to add fish.
Guess I'm just trying to establish how many fish I can get depending on how big each type of fish is.
 
Originally the plan was to have 1 main fish of a decent size (Siamese fighting), a couple of medium fish (dalmatian mollies) and a shoal of smaller fish (neons) to get the most out of the tank.  I knew when I bought the tank I wouldn't be able to add anything too large or too many fish so that was one of the main reasons to sign up to the forum to try and get some more ideas.  I decided to swap the fighting fish for 3 male guppies as I got told they were more 'community friendly' and find them just as beautiful and interesting. 
 
I didn't realise dalmations got much bigger then in the pet shop but you advised they will so they're out and the salt and peppers are the best replacement I have seen so far.  Can you think of any other slightly bigger fish I could get a couple of which would produce roughly the same waste as 6 salt and peppers but less then dalmatians?
 
I was only thinking 5 or 6 CPD and 5 or 6 Tetra together instead of 10/12 of one for more variety and working on the theory the same amount of waste would be produced but give me 2 different type of fish to enjoy.  Water changes shouldn't be an issue and will be done at least once a week

 more if required.
 
I know I probably sound like I want too much lol but I'm trying to balance getting the most out of the tank and filtration system without going over the top.  I knew it was gna be difficult choosing fish but not this hard.  Guess mother nature was aware of this and that's why fishless cycling takes so long

 

[Blondielovesfish]

The fish that fluttermoth is advising you on are more because if the swimming space they need not the waste they produce. I.e neon tetra's are small fish and do not have a large bio load but do require quite a lot of swimming space as they are active fish.
Though the bio load they produce is one of many factors it is not the main one as the main one is the amount of space each fish needs to be happy.

 

[zawar8686]

Thanks Blondie.  So you think neons would definitely be a no no for my tank?
I realise they are active fish but I thought since they are so small 40cm x 40cm would be ok for them to dart around in.
 
Now I'm thinking 3 male guppies, 2 Honey Gouramis and a couple of small shoals of less active fish if that's more suited?
 
Would green neon tetras be better as they are smaller and therefore require a bit less space?

 

[Blondielovesfish]

I'm not sure if they would be out or not. Most people say that 15 gallon's is their minimum so I think it's up to you really. Possibly the green variety might be better but I haven't done any research on them so I can't give you advice sorry. 
If you wanted then you could have 6 Pygmy Cory's which could be nice as they are bottom dwellers. Just a suggestion

 

[zawar8686]

my next question was going to be about bottom dwellers

 
would shrimp or snails be ok to add? I've heard a lot of people say they don't add to your fish count and do a good job of helping keep your tank clean too.  Is this right?  And does the tank have to be fully cycled before adding them, if yes would you add them before or after fish?

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Personally I would add them after the tank was cycled as I think some types are sensitive so it's better to be safe than sorry.
I would add them before the fish but only so the tank is nicer looking for the fish. Though I suppose you could add them with the other fish.
Yes I don't think they add to your fish count which is a good thing especially if you don't have much space left for a Pleco or anything (I'm talking about the bigger tanks mostly).
I would personally go with snails as they aren't good escapees like some shrimps are but it's up to you.
If you wanted snails the nerite's would probably be best as they wouldn't breed in freshwater. Another option could be Assassin snails.
If you wanted shrimp then you could either go with Red Cherry Shrimp or Ghost Shrimp.

 

[zawar8686]

for the purpose of variety again, could I go for 2 snails and 2 shrimp?
 
Wouldn't want them breeding so that sounds like a good suggestion

 

[Blondielovesfish]

I would personally maybe have 2 snails and 6 or so shrimp as I'm pretty sure they like to be in groups and (I think) they are more active with more of their own kind.

 

[CoryLover95]

Personally I would add them after the tank was cycled as I think some types are sensitive so it's better to be safe than sorry.

I definitely second Blondie on this point.  Even 'hardy' Corys are rather delicate when it comes to water quality.  I have 2 mystery snails in my tank and they haven't bred (yet! 

 ) so I think you'd be safe there.  (My tank has been up and running for about 4 months now.)  Best of luck!

 

[Essjay]

Nerite snails are the best option for anyone worried about them breeding too much -- zawar, those are the snails you saw in my tanks. They do lay egss but they rarely hatch in freshwater tanks. Snails and shrimps are even more sensitive than fish to water conditons so they must be added after the cycle has finished.
 
I agree with what the others are saying, stocking a tank is not just about bioload, it's also about the behaviour of the fish. Some fish will potter about quietly, others like to dash around. The fish that dash need bigger tanks than you'd think from the size of them. Neons are fish that like to dash around so need more space. Green neons are smaller but harder to find - I had to get mine on-line a couple of years ago as I couldn't find a shop with them in. Paddock Farm Water Gardens at Dalton Gates had some in a couple of months ago - they may be willing to order more if they haven't got any when your tank is ready.
 
Have you looked at the fish in the link Fluttermoth gave you in post #2? There is quite a selection of fish there to choose from.

 

[zawar8686]

yeah, I looked at them and a lot of other fish lol. It seems to be taking over my life.
Even dreaming about fish

 
My fish of choice currently (subject to change of course and taking into account all the advice received) are:
 
3 Male Guppies
2/3 Honey Gouramis
6/8 Dwarf Emerald Rasboras and
6/8 Green Neons or CPDs
 
plus 2 snails and 6 shrimp as suggested.
 
I think that would get the most out of my tank and provide quite a lot of variety.  Only one of my original choices has made it through lol but I would still be very happy with this line-up.  Does it sound good to you guys?
 

  for all the advice and suggestions

 

[Blondielovesfish]

That looks fine but I thought that unless it was a big tank you couldn't keep more than one gourami together? Or is that just the types?
Even if the honey gourami's aren't aggressive towards each other I would still personally have just one as it could be your "centrepiece fish" and if you had more than one it may not look as nice.
Also if you only had one then you could get maybe some more of the smallest schooling fish that's in your final stocking.
Just my opinion and you don't have to go along with it.

 

[zawar8686]

I thought Honey Gouramis prefer to be kept together (minimum of 2)? It was suggested earlier in this thread to have 3 together.
I put 2 or 3 in case 3 might be too many and was hoping someone would advise on what's better for both the fish and overall tank..
 
Haven't seen cherry barbs anywhere so might struggle to find them.
Saw some cherry barbs in my LFS.  Would these be more or less suited to my tank then tetras?
 
Think I'm getting much closer now to deciding exactly what would be right for my tank so thanks again for everyone's input.
Almost feel like I should say 'our' rather then 'my' tank now lol

 

[Blondielovesfish]

LOL.
Yes upon more research you are right about having several Honey's together...I think the preferred is 1 male to 2 females.
The cherry barb's are bigger so I wouldn't recommend them. 
You could possibly skip the tetra's if you can't find them and instead have some more Guppies and more shrimp. Just another option to think about.

 

[zawar8686]

Yeah 2 males or 1 male 2 females is what I read.
I'd rather have more variety then more of the same fish so would probably look at getting something else if unable to find any green tetras. Saw some cardinal tetras today (which look like green tetras to me??) so they could be an option or maybe just end up going neons and see how they get on in the tank. The comments I've had and research I've done suggest my tank is not ideal but they probably will be ok, if not better then ok.

Saw some apple snails today and was wondering what they're like for breeding? Dnt want to end up with lots of baby snails in my tank..

Also saw a few different types of shrimp which I dnt really know anything about. Again, wouldn't want them multiplying or troubling any if the fish. Slightly larger ones look more interesting so any names and descriptions would be handy for your recommendations.

Still loving guppies, honey Gouramis and tetras so they're pretty much guaranteed to make it in to my tank. Apple snails would be nice if suitable with about 6 friendly/interesting shrimp. That just leaves me one more type of small shoaling fish to decide on that's readily available (haven't seen cpds or the rasboras I liked anywhere ..)