New Babies In Uncycled Tank

[luckyd]

Hello all. I'm new to this forum. About two weeks ago my daughters won two small goldfish in a school carnival and we were catapulted into the unexpectedly complex yet fascinating world of fish keeping. When we won the fish we bought a 5-gallon tank. Unfortunately, the goldfish did not live more than a couple of days and we bought a dalmation fish as a replacement. We were only a couple of weeks into the cycle when she delivered babies! We quickly set up a new five gallon tank, let it run for about a day, then transferred the Mom into that one because she was chasing her babies. She was a bit stressed at first but appears to be adapting.

Just before the babies were born the ammonia level spiked and remains between the "stress" and "danger" level on our monitor (although the Mom fish didn't seem to be in distress). Our pet store confirmed the high reading. The Ph is about 7.4. We have been changing 10% to 25% of the water each day but the ammonia level remains high. However, the fry appear to be doing well so far. There are about eight that we can count.

So, my questions . . . What's the best way to feed the fry? Are the fry in danger or can they acclimate to the higher ammonia levels? Could the ammonia be a false reading since we formerly used ammonia lowering products in the water? Is it safe or advisable to use ammonia lowering products with the babies in the tank? Can we use a gravel vac in the tank without hurting the fry? Is it too stressful to the Mom to move her after giving birth? If so, is it better just to leave Mom and babies together in the future? If so, how can I protect the fry?

And just one more. The pH in the new tank is 8.2. Is that OK for a Molly? The pet store says Mollies like that level but it seems high.

Thanks everyone. I know I'm asking a lot of questions but I'm trying to learn as fast as possible to make the best of this unexpected situation!

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum LuckyD.
You really need to get your ammonia under control. It may be a false high reading but until you get a proper liquid reagent type test kit, the ones with little test tubes, you will not know. In the meantime, I would be doing 50% daily changes on the fry tank and one about that big on the adult's tank. I never advise people to use chemicals to control other chemicals. The problem becomes one of the chemical soup that you end up with when you do that. Nice clean water changes will have the same benefit without creating any new problems. A gravel vac is a good way to do your water changes and can be used with a little care with molly fry. I use a gravel cleaner and drain the water to a bucket. That way, if any fry decide to take a ride through the tube, I can net them back into the tank.
Feeding molly fry is not a big deal. You probably have some food that you are using for the adult female and a bit of the same food crushed to a powder between fingertips will work fine as a staple food for the fry.For mollies, it is best to use fish foods that are high in vegetable content rather than foods high in animal/fish proteins. It better mimics the diet the fish would have in the wild.
If you really want to save lots of molly fry, start with a bigger tank than you have. Fill it with lots of cover like java moss. Place the female into the tank and she can live with the fry she drops if she is well fed and the fry have a place to hide. I do that with my big breeder molly and have a high fry survival rate of about 20 to 30 fry from each drop.

This is a picture of how it can end up looking about 5 weeks after a drop.

Your pH is fine for mollies, one thing the LFS has told you that was correct.

 

[luckyd]

Thank you so much for your advice and the wonderful picture!  We did a 25% water change today and will bollow up with another one tomorrow.  I didn't have enough aged water for a full 50%.  I guess that brings me to another question.  How important is having aged water, especially to make sure it's room temperature?  How do people create large quantities of that?  Thanks also for the advice on the chemicals.  One fish store guy recommended that we suspend Ammo-Carb (actvivated filter carbon) from a mesh bag in the tank to "naturally" control the ammonia over time.  Another said we should put some of the ammo-carb chunks in the filter.  What do you think of this idea?Thanks again!

Welcome to the forum LuckyD. You really need to get your ammonia under control. It may be a false high reading but until you get a proper liquid reagent type test kit, the ones with little test tubes, you will not know. In the meantime, I would be doing 50% daily changes on the fry tank and one about that big on the adult's tank. I never advise people to use chemicals to control other chemicals. The problem becomes one of the chemical soup that you end up with when you do that. Nice clean water changes will have the same benefit without creating any new problems. A gravel vac is a good way to do your water changes and can be used with a little care with molly fry. I use a gravel cleaner and drain the water to a bucket. That way, if any fry decide to take a ride through the tube, I can net them back into the tank. Feeding molly fry is not a big deal. You probably have some food that you are using for the adult female and a bit of the same food crushed to a powder between fingertips will work fine as a staple food for the fry.For mollies, it is best to use fish foods that are high in vegetable content rather than foods high in animal/fish proteins. It better mimics the diet the fish would have in the wild.If you really want to save lots of molly fry, start with a bigger tank than you have. Fill it with lots of cover like java moss. Place the female into the tank and she can live with the fry she drops if she is well fed and the fry have a place to hide. I do that with my big breeder molly and have a high fry survival rate of about 20 to 30 fry from each drop. This is a picture of how it can end up looking about 5 weeks after a drop.

Your pH is fine for mollies, one thing the LFS has told you that was correct.

 

[OldMan47]

I have seen the ammo-carb advertising and think it is just wonderful advertising. Unfortunately products that contain zeolites like that are a very temporary fix. They will not control ammonia "naturally". They are a chemical absorption system that will suddenly stop when the chemical material gets used up. The exact timing of when they stop is unpredictable because just hours before that they will working just as well as when brand new. Unless you happen to test the water shortly after the absorption stops, your fish are left swimming around in ammonia until you discover the problem. A more controlled method of changing a certain amount of water each day with testing to tell you how well you are doing will serve you and your fish much better. You will learn to control the chemicals very well and will give your biological filter a chance to develop properly because the traces of ammonia in the water will grow the filter bacteria. That is something the "natural" action of zeolites will prevent.

 

[sami the cichlid]

This is a picture of how it can end up looking about 5 weeks after a drop.

soz "off topic" but how big were these fry at their age?

congrats Luckyd, u have joined the livebearers breeding club

 

[Tolak]

Thank you so much for your advice and the wonderful picture!  We did a 25% water change today and will bollow up with another one tomorrow.  I didn't have enough aged water for a full 50%.  I guess that brings me to another question.  How important is having aged water, especially to make sure it's room temperature?  How do people create large quantities of that?  Thanks also for the advice on the chemicals.  One fish store guy recommended that we suspend Ammo-Carb (actvivated filter carbon) from a mesh bag in the tank to "naturally" control the ammonia over time.  Another said we should put some of the ammo-carb chunks in the filter.  What do you think of this idea?Thanks again!

If you are using dechlorinator these is no reason to age the water, dechlorinator works instantly. Depending on your water heating system you can mix hot & cold water, this brings you closer to tank temperature. If you have a stand alone system this works great, ones integrated with the home heating system are dependent on the system, ones with a storage tank in the loft and gravity fed are generally a no go.

As long as you are within a few degrees it's fine for most fish, you can judge temperature by touch in most cases. If the water from your home water heating system is questionable you can always heat some on the stove, adding it to the cold to bring it to temperature.

As far as large quantities, folks with large tanks or many smaller ones fill them straight from the tap, with a hose. Since dechlorinator works instantly, add it to the tank, & fill 'er up.

 

[luckyd]

Thank you so much for your advice and the wonderful picture!  We did a 25% water change today and will bollow up with another one tomorrow.  I didn't have enough aged water for a full 50%.  I guess that brings me to another question.  How important is having aged water, especially to make sure it's room temperature?  How do people create large quantities of that?  Thanks also for the advice on the chemicals.  One fish store guy recommended that we suspend Ammo-Carb (actvivated filter carbon) from a mesh bag in the tank to "naturally" control the ammonia over time.  Another said we should put some of the ammo-carb chunks in the filter.  What do you think of this idea?Thanks again!

If you are using dechlorinator these is no reason to age the water, dechlorinator works instantly. Depending on your water heating system you can mix hot & cold water, this brings you closer to tank temperature. If you have a stand alone system this works great, ones integrated with the home heating system are dependent on the system, ones with a storage tank in the loft and gravity fed are generally a no go.

As long as you are within a few degrees it's fine for most fish, you can judge temperature by touch in most cases. If the water from your home water heating system is questionable you can always heat some on the stove, adding it to the cold to bring it to temperature.

As far as large quantities, folks with large tanks or many smaller ones fill them straight from the tap, with a hose. Since dechlorinator works instantly, add it to the tank, & fill 'er up.

Thank you. That's very helpful. I'm glad we don't have to worry so much about aging the water. So far, since we live in Florida, we haven't had to install a heater but we have a thermometer showing the tank is staying at a pretty steady 78 to 80 degrees. We'll keep an eye on it as it gets cooler to see whether we need a heater. Thanks for everyone's help on this! So far, Mom and babies are both doing well. The 25% water change this morning helped and we'll do another one tomorrow morning.