New 252l tank - Discus Behaving Weird

[Shimbob]

Like I say, I have no experience with discus. But I do know that fish will not survive water with nitrite and ammonia for long. Water changes can be less stressful if the syphon is placed in a corner near the substrate/ bottom to drain the old water; then fresh water added slowly for minimum turbulence. Ensure the temperature of the new water is the same.
The quicker the ammonia/ nitrite is removed, the quicker they can begin recovery.

Thank you kindly

 

[Shimbob]

Reduce feeding to a couple of times a week for the next 4 weeks. The fish won't starve.

Do a 75% water change any day you have an ammonia or nitrite reading above 0ppm, or a nitrate reading above 20ppm.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

If the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. After the filter has cycled (in about 6 weeks), you can wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Established filters should be cleaned at least once a month but wait until it has cycled before you start cleaning it.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

The shop that sold you discus as a beginner fish is a bad shop. At the very least they should have made sure the tank was cycled and had been running well for a few months before you took any discus. They are not the easiest fish to keep alive.

Thank you very much. Means so much to have some help on this.
Ok I’ll give not feeding them and water change a go in the way you and the other lovely people on here have suggested.
Yes, I’m pretty annoyed with the shop too tbh, I had no idea that too many fish at any one time could cause these issues and not cycling for 6 weeks was something I had to do. We actually paid this guy to come to our home and set up the aquarium too, so no excuses...

Thank you again. I’ll post an update tomorrow.

 

[Shimbob]

??‍ Jeepers... Not that old chestnut. Every tank should come with instructions on how to cycle and the importance of doing so....especially when keeping discus. Where are they finding these jokers to sell people live animals?

Don't feel bad OP, it's happened to most of us! Hopefully we can help you through so you don't lose your lovely fish... Be prepared that you might though, discus are very sensitive

Thank you. That’s the goal, to not lose these babies

 

[kribensis12]

I was tagged on this thread, but I completely agree with @Colin_T . At this point, a fish in cycle is your only option - I hope these little guys make it!

 

[Itsslucky]

Good luck. I wish I was brave enough to chose discus as one of my first species of fish to keep. They are absolutely stunning fish. Good luck man I hope you can keep them all alive and healthy.

 

[Shimbob]

Okay, did you get any form of ammonia into the tank? If not your tank most likely never did a fishless cycle. You are now technically doing a fish-in cycle. For a fish in cycle there are several threads on here that can help, most are found under cycling your tank. I don’t know much about fish in cycling but a lot of people on here do. Also do you use a liquid test kit or sticks? Sometimes sticks can come back reading things wrong.

I use liquid test kits

 

[Shimbob]

Good morning lovely fish keepers. Today's readings are:

Thursday 13 May
pH 7.72
Ammonia between 0.1 (reduced)
Nitrite 2.0

I will do a water change 50-75% today and check again later today

 

[Lajos_Detari]

I will share on a few key things.
I'm not an expert but I managed to read extensively from internets and books written by the Discus breeders.

1)As most had mentioned, keep the Ammonia and Nitrite at 0 with large water change.
This is most important.

2)What is your tank water GH after mixing the RO and tap water?
Discus requires soft water.
If your tap water is soft, you don't need RO water.
Most importantly is to keep the GH stable rather than fluctuating especially when you make large water change.

3)What is your tank temperature?
Discus don't do well in cold temperature.
They need about 28-30degC.
Warm temperature will increase their metabolism and they will eat more.

4)Discus are picky eaters and beef heart is one of their favorite food.
If they don't eat beef heart, usually it means they are sick.
Don't feed them with frozen bloodworms as two Discus breeders - Jack Wattley and Andrew Soh(ex breeder) did mention that it will cause them to have internal infections.

They may not necessarily eat the pellets that you give them as they are picky eaters and they may not recognize the food at the beginning.
You may need to try different brands of food or you may have to wait longer for them to recognize the food.
Don't keep changing the food as they will get confused.
Stick to 1-2 brands of food. Then slowly you can add a few more types/brands.

They don't like hard food. They prefer soft granulates than pellets.
They also don't like food that is too big.
They prefer to eat at the bottom but some are more bold and they will eat even from the top.
The male Discus are usually more bold than the female one.
So, look for fish food that will sink to the bottom rather than floating.

For young Discus, they require food with high Protein and Fat if you want them to grow faster.
Here are my food recommendation which have high Protein(more than 50%) and Fat and my Discus like them:

1)Dr Bassleer Regular Biofish food.(Protein: 52%, Fat :18%)
Choose the right size for your Discus. (probably size M for your fish size but M is quite fine)
Also, choose carefully before buying as they have many types of food under Biofish food.
Look only for the "Regular" Biofish food.

Bassleer Biofish Food | Regular

www.bassleer.com

Bassleer Biofish Food | The best fish food for your tropical fish on the market

www.bassleer.com

2)Discus food (Protein: 57% or more, Fat :14.5%)

Granulate für Diskusfische - Discusfood

www.discusfood.com

3)Hikari Discus Bio Gold (Protein: 50%, Fat :12%)

Hikari info : Hikari Tropical DISCUS Bio-Gold

www.hikari.info

I managed to convert all my Discus to eating only pellets or granulates and I don't want to use beef heart as it's not suitable/unhealthy for fish in the long run.

Can you elaborate what is the fish reaction when they saw the food?

How long the Discus were kept in the fish stores before you bought them?
If they were kept for some time, can you ask them what food they fed them?
Get the details from them.

5)At the beginning, the fish are usually quite timid but they should get used to your tank after 1 week.
Make sure that your tank is not too empty.
If your tank is too empty, they will feel insecure and timid.
They can easily get frightened when they see sudden movement in front of the tank.
You must get them used to having people in front of their tank.

6)By the way, it can be hard for you to raise your Discus from such a small size.
It will be easier for the fish farm to raise them as they feed them many times each day and they perform water change almost every day due to the heavy feeding.

 

[Shimbob]

After many hours of cleaning, a cracked heater to replace, and a 75% water change, there seems to be some progress on the levels:

7.52 pH
0 Ammonia
1.0 Nitrite
Should I keep the lights off in the tank or turn them on? I had to turn them on to clean as I couldn't see anything

I will share on a few key things.
I'm not an expert but I managed to read extensively from internets and books written by the Discus breeders.

1)As most had mentioned, keep the Ammonia and Nitrite at 0 with large water change.
This is most important.

2)What is your tank water GH after mixing the RO and tap water?
Discus requires soft water.
If your tap water is soft, you don't need RO water.
Most importantly is to keep the GH stable rather than fluctuating especially when you make large water change.

3)What is your tank temperature?
Discus don't do well in cold temperature.
They need about 28-30degC.
Warm temperature will increase their metabolism and they will eat more.

4)Discus are picky eaters and beef heart is one of their favorite food.
If they don't eat beef heart, usually it means they are sick.
Don't feed them with frozen bloodworms as two Discus breeders - Jack Wattley and Andrew Soh(ex breeder) did mention that it will cause them to have internal infections.

They may not necessarily eat the pellets that you give them as they are picky eaters and they may not recognize the food at the beginning.
You may need to try different brands of food or you may have to wait longer for them to recognize the food.
Don't keep changing the food as they will get confused.
Stick to 1-2 brands of food. Then slowly you can add a few more types/brands.

They don't like hard food. They prefer soft granulates than pellets.
They also don't like food that is too big.
They prefer to eat at the bottom but some are more bold and they will eat even from the top.
The male Discus are usually more bold than the female one.
So, look for fish food that will sink to the bottom rather than floating.

For young Discus, they require food with high Protein and Fat if you want them to grow faster.
Here are my food recommendation which have high Protein(more than 50%) and Fat and my Discus like them:

1)Dr Bassleer Regular Biofish food.(Protein: 52%, Fat :18%)
Choose the right size for your Discus. (probably size M for your fish size but M is quite fine)
Also, choose carefully before buying as they have many types of food under Biofish food.
Look only for the "Regular" Biofish food.

Bassleer Biofish Food | Regular

www.bassleer.com

Bassleer Biofish Food | The best fish food for your tropical fish on the market

www.bassleer.com

2)Discus food (Protein: 57% or more, Fat :14.5%)

Granulate für Diskusfische - Discusfood

www.discusfood.com

3)Hikari Discus Bio Gold (Protein: 50%, Fat :12%)

Hikari info : Hikari Tropical DISCUS Bio-Gold

www.hikari.info

I managed to convert all my Discus to eating only pellets or granulates and I don't want to use beef heart as it's not suitable/unhealthy for fish in the long run.

Can you elaborate what is the fish reaction when they saw the food?

How long the Discus were kept in the fish stores before you bought them?
If they were kept for some time, can you ask them what food they fed them?
Get the details from them.

5)At the beginning, the fish are usually quite timid but they should get used to your tank after 1 week.
Make sure that your tank is not too empty.
If your tank is too empty, they will feel insecure and timid.
They can easily get frightened when they see sudden movement in front of the tank.
You must get them used to having people in front of their tank.

6)By the way, it can be hard for you to raise your Discus from such a small size.
It will be easier for the fish farm to raise them as they feed them many times each day and they perform water change almost every day due to the heavy feeding.

Hello, good morning.

First of all, thank you kindly for writing a thorough response, I have read through, and here are my responses.

1) Yes, I did a big water change yesterday, and will do again tomorrow morning
2) GH test kit arrives tomorrow, I did not know that I would need this..
3) Tank temperature is currently 28 degrees c
4) I am looking into the food you recommended, and will start with one of these to begin with. Thank you.
When I put the food in, they have just stayed in hiding behind the sword plants and one of them comes shooting out and eats them mid float (to the ground), but the rest have not been interested. I did notice when I leave the room, they seem to look around for the food,. This tells me they are just not used to me and still a little shy?

I noticed the attached white spots on the tails of the discus, the other fish seem fine. I have given them a small dose of the attached gill fluke treatment.

5) the fish were in the shop I believe 2-3 weeks before they brought them over to my house

Today marks one week, and last night I stared into the tank admiring these beauts, I noticed that they were coming out and swimming around like they owned the place. This morning when I went to steal a cup of water for testing, they became shy again. I haven't fed them for 2 days now, and I will do another water change tomorrow, and feed them after that.

Readings this morning are as folllows:
pH 7.71
Ammonia 0.1
Nitrite 1.5

The size of the fish are actually 6-8cm

Let me know if I need to do anything outside of all this, or any other recommendations. Thanks again everyone. Much love.

 

[Colin_T]

If you have live plants in the tank, turn the light on

 

[Lajos_Detari]

1)The yellow Discus seems to have fins rot on its tail.
Did the fish have this condition when it first came?
You can treat it with some anti-biotic though I can't remember the name at the moment.(need to check)

Salt probably can help but for serious case of fins rot, salt won't be strong enough.
If you use salt, you can use about 1 tablespoon of salt for 20 liters of water.
Use it for about 1-2 weeks.

Or wait for Colin who is the expert in fish diseases and treatments.

2)Take note that when you use RO water(which has GH 0) and mix it with tap water, it will bring down your water GH.
And if you use different ratio of RO and tap water for each water change, the GH will fluctuate.
Too much GH fluctuation is bad for the fish.(probably may kill them
So, don't use RO water if your tap water is soft enough.

3)Try to sit in front of the tank and watch them everyday for them to recognize you.
And they will become less timid once they can recognize you.
Discus are intelligent fish and they can recognize their master after a while.
But if they see stranger, they may get frightened easily.

Colin used to suggest that you should let them get used to seeing many people.
Then they won't be timid anymore whenever there are people around.

4)Can you ask your fish store what food that they use to feed them?
It will be easier if you use the same food to feed them.
But one bad practice by some fish stores are they like to use beef heart and bloodworms to feed them.
This will spoil them and sometimes they won't accept other food other than these two.

Anyway, most fish farms will feed them with beef heart.
You can still feed them with beef heart at the beginning if you want.
But it's best not to use it in the long run as animal meat such as beef, pork, mutton are not suitable for them.
Discus or other fish should only be fed with fish or prawn meats.

Whenever you introduce new food to them, try to feed them in the morning when they are the most hungry.
Make sure that they see your hand coming from above the tank with food when you feed them.
If I am not wrong, that is how they are fed in the fish farms and fish stores.
That's why I also prefer to have bare tank where they can easily see us.

Probably you can wave your hand "gently" at the top of the tank to catch their attention before feeding them.
You can make this a habit so that they will recognize that this is feeding time in the future.

5)Diseases: Observe your fish for these diseases.
a)Gill flukes : Symptoms are fish will scratch at objects or the tank glass. At final/late stage, fish will breathe fast.

b)Internal infections due to eating live food: Symptoms are fish will stop eating, having white poops or skinny/sunken belly.

These two are the most common diseases for Discus.
I will you more info on these two diseases if you are interested.
Some people said that Discus are delicate. Actually, they are not.
In fact, I find them to be more hardy than my other fish.
They only die due to diseases.

For fins rot, it could be due to dirty water caused by overfeeding especially when they are at the fish store.
If you overfeed them with live food and don't do enough water change, it will cause many problems.

Always observe your fish to understand them and especially when they are sick.
This is vey important if you want to succeed in keeping fish.

6)Take note that most Discus keepers prefer to have bare tank than planted tank.
It will be difficult to siphon out all the debris/waste in the tank when you have sand or gravel.
You will need "extra" maintenance work with sand and gravel.

 

[Shimbob]

Hi there,

1) I am not sure if they had this when they arrived, but given today marks a week of having them, they can't have got it from the tank which had nothing in it?? All the levels were fine, of course this 6 week cycling is something I was totally unaware of, and I would have expected the fish shop to make me aware of this, given I paid him to come to my home, set up the tank and come back weeks after with the fish... So disappointed.

2) Noted, thank you. I had no idea!

3) I spend hours every night after work staring at them on a little stool, I find them mesmerising; they come to say hello and swim around more confidently now, so I am hoping they are now getting used to me and my hysterical 3 year old. My son knows no sudden movements and comes to say good morning and goodnight to them every night, it is the sweetest. He even know knows to walk over very slowly, do not touch the glass or the cabinet!

4) I have, and no response...

5) Does anyone know what ICH is? Could the fish have this? I am spending a lot of time watching them and trying to understand them better. You guys have been incredibly kind and helpful, and I've also been speaking to some breeders on various forums who have too, provided some very helpful info. Trying my best .

6) I am painfully aware of this point in a week, I actually don't mind it, it took me 3.5 hours of massive OCD cleaning but I actually kind of enjoyed it. I like cleaning. No, I will not come and clean your house .

I am just worried my little yellow one has not come out of hiding all day now, and the others are swimming around like the own the place.. wondering when this medication I put in the tank will start working...

 

[Mothi]

Hi,

You can use Esha 2000 for fin rot. I've used it in the past and it worked for me.

 

[Colin_T]

The discus in the pictures do not have white spot (Ichthyophthirius). They do have excess mucous and the yellow one has fin rot (as mentioned by Lajos_Detari).

There is something in the water irritating the fish and that is causing the excess mucous and fin rot.

Check the water quality for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH.

Fin rot can normally be treated with daily water changes and gravel cleans, cleaning the filter, and adding salt (1-2 heaped tablespoons of sodium chloride for every 20 litres of water). Keep salt in the tank for 2-4 weeks.

If there's no improvement after a few days of salt you will need either a liquid broad spectrum medication or anti-biotics.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

I noticed tht one of your orange Discus has some black spots on it which is called as "black peppering".

Can you still return or exchange the fish?
To me, I will reject it if they give me this type of fish especially if you are paying for a high price.

Here are some info about black peppering:

Why Do My Discus Have Black Spots? – Black Peppering Spots Cure | Discus Rescue

Pigeon blood discus is known for black peppering spots, which is a normal skin coloration found on discus fish with a pigeon blood gene in them. These black peppering spots also could be taken from a disease or caused by stress. Hence, mostly the black peppering spots aid the discus fish for...

discusrescue.com