My Plants Look .. Rubbish :~/

you know what its like when you get the 'planting bug'!!! :hyper: Trouble is the more you read the harder and more expensive it all seems to become :/

I thought at first I was getting shoddy looking plants because there wasn't enough nutrient. Hence, I bought the TPN+. Then the algae progressed and I learned I had too much light for the CO2, hence why I got the Flourish Excel. I suppose its just gonna be down to me getting the balance right.

I'll get a pic/video as soon as possible, its lights off at the moment. I'll do a large water change tomorrow and start from scratch.

I have fine gravel at the rear where my Sag is planted. The rest of the tank is play sand, about 1 to 1 and 1/2" deep.
 
is the more you read the harder and more expensive it all seems to become

Each mistake costs money. lol

I spent circa £2000 to build my setup before I got it right. I could have bought the final setup equipment and all for around £600. thats a lot of wasted purchases, mistakes, silly shortcuts etc.

I thought at first I was getting shoddy looking plants because there wasn't enough nutrient.
Not necessarily


Then the algae progressed and I learned I had too much light for the CO2, hence why I got the Flourish Excel.
Not at all. You have low light which is easily under a non CO2 limit. Less than half way there some may say.

I suppose its just gonna be down to me getting the balance right.
Or the circulation which is now being addressed. We just need to sort it out properly.

Substrate is a key thing really. Nutrient substrates that have high CEC like Tropica etc (clay) are a superb investment in a low light tank. They soak up nutrient in the water and therefore it is always accessible to the plants whilst being locked away out of the water column.

AC
 
is the more you read the harder and more expensive it all seems to become

Each mistake costs money. lol

I spent circa £200 to build my setup before I got it right. I could have bought the final setup equipment and all for around £600. thats a lot of wasted purchases, mistakes, silly shortcuts etc.

I thought at first I was getting shoddy looking plants because there wasn't enough nutrient.
Not necessarily


Then the algae progressed and I learned I had too much light for the CO2, hence why I got the Flourish Excel.
Not at all. You have low light which is easily under a non CO2 limit. Less than half way there some may say.

I suppose its just gonna be down to me getting the balance right.
Or the circulation which is now being addressed. We just need to sort it out properly.

Substrate is a key thing really. Nutrient substrates that have high CEC like Tropica etc (clay) are a superb investment in a low light tank. They soak up nutrient in the water and therefore it is always accessible to the plants whilst being locked away out of the water column.

AC

I have a very cheap solution.

Change the water as often and as much as possible to return your water balance to normal.
Syphon your gravel thoroughly each time.


Don't add anything in it, that is why probably it is getting worst.
 
and what pleasure do you get if all you do is waterchanges?
 
If that post isn;t an attempt at flaming then it is laughable. This is a non CO2 tank. Non CO2 tanks do better with no water changes. However I would not suggest no waterchanges until the tank is sorted and the user has the belief inwhat they have and are doing.

AC
 
If that post isn;t an attempt at flaming then it is laughable. This is a non CO2 tank. Non CO2 tanks do better with no water changes. However I would not suggest no waterchanges until the tank is sorted and the user has the belief inwhat they have and are doing.

AC

My theory is based on this:

Imbalance between P and N, more water change pretty much resets the water quality, gravel cleaning cleans excess waste and reduce P.

If you like playing with chemistry set this would help.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~buddendo/aquarium/redfield_eng.htm

The article said not to change water often but to add N/P instead.

I took a conclusion that there was heavy imbalance in my water quality, I bought a P test kit and it did spike heavily.

So I did a reset to the water first trying to reduce my P to acceptable level, afterwards I don't really need to play with chemistry set and the algae growth stops.

I understand the common understanding for people are P = bad = algae and the other group say P = good and needed.

I think both are right, P if kept under control (Should not be 0) does not create problem.

Adding fertiliser depends on what fertiliser my further push your imbalance.

But what do I know :) I am no expert in this, just sharing my experience
 
Redfleld Ratio - This post is from just a month ago and saves me a lot of typing :)
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/336801-the-redfield-ratio/page__hl__redfield__fromsearch__1

This hobby has come on a long way in the last few years alone in terms of understanding what to do and whats actually going on. Redfield is pretty old. Ignore ratios, just do what the plants need and not what someone thinks they need.

P can be as high as you want it. The reason we tend to limit it below a certain level is because it reacts very easily with Fe. The more P often means cloudy water as it reacts with the Fe and locks it away. It isn't anything to do with a N P ratio. We will normally be doing circa 1:6 and not 1:10 but as above this is not fixed. Some may do 1:3 Some may do 1:20. No rules here.

The article said not to change water often but to add N/P instead.
I do no water changes and only NP every couple of months IF necessary.

I took a conclusion that there was heavy imbalance in my water quality, I bought a P test kit and it did spike heavily.
Thats why we don't test. Testing parameters with hobby test is a recipe for disaster in many cases. Inaccuracies, false readings, acting on old info etc can be the bane of many people's tank.

So I did a reset to the water first trying to reduce my P to acceptable level, afterwards I don't really need to play with chemistry set and the algae growth stops.
How much P do you think is already in the tap water? If you have a planted tank and it uses P, then doing no water changes would in essence (apart from that in fish waste and food) mean you reach zero, just as nitrate. Water change will replenish, not reset. However if you are following a no water change regime and using the fish waste and food as your source of N and P, what is the difference? Just means unbalancing what was stable. i.e. the tank had set its parameters over the space of time and then suddenly fresh tank water with a huge difference in all paramters including KH, Ph and nutrient levels is added in. Makes no sense to me if we are using it in conjunction with the redfield argument.

I could understand it as feasible if we are resetting with RO water and then adding the N and P as that would be a reset of sorts but to just ad tap water in is adding an 'unknown' in terms of content and therefore any ratio is out of the window.

I understand the common understanding for people are P = bad = algae and the other group say P = good and needed.

Wrong way round here. People who are serious with planted tanks already follow NP = good. those who have little interest in the plants other than decoration are in the main NP = Bad

I think both are right, P if kept under control (Should not be 0) does not create problem.
The only problem you will have with P is if there is a reaction with Fe. The level that are suggested for 'keeping it under control' are way lower than any problem area IMO and others. Problems normally arise when people try and micro control things like nutrients because they fear old understandings.

Adding fertiliser depends on what fertiliser my further push your imbalance.
Only things that controls what fertiliser is added are:
1 - The type of tank - Light levels, CO2 addition, regime etc.
2 - The content of the fertiliser. Does it have N and P in it? Does it fit the type of tank?

What helped me really is that I went the hi tec way before coming to non CO2. I learnt to push things first and then was able to lose any fears I may have gained from researching non CO2 first. Then I can take on the non CO2 approach with no fear of N and P neither in their ratio or concentration. It also taught me to trust the water parameters and not to play with them. Let the water go where it wants and not worry about a parameter changing over time.

I think those who go the other way round often have a bit of a handicap as they research low tech methods and the majority of those are written by long term old myth believers. The world is slowly changing though :)

AC
 
P1030975.jpg


P1030979.jpg


Here is a piece from the sag I have cut. Gives good example of type of algae i have.
P1030992.jpg


P1030972.jpg


Would you reckon I need to get a test kit to get an idea what my tap & tank water is like? In terms of hardness, Nitrogen and Phosphorus etc
 
also, as you have mentioned that a good substrate helps in a low tech. Would it be possible to alter the substrate I already have now in some way sufficiently without emptying the entire tank? i.e. is there a material that can be added/stirred in with my sand around the planted areas?

My goal is to have a very heavily planted tank. Obviously I am going to have to upgrade along the way. However, I am not earning copious amounts of cash! ;)
 
The first algae looks like GDA. The others like staghorn and GSA. Mixture of causes but all reptty remediable.

I am going to suggest you start again but give you some reading first.

This is Tom Barr's non CO2 method. This is what I use. It basically uses the principle of the walstad method with some tweaks and works pretty darned well. Just read the first 10 or so pages, the rest is a bit repetition etc.
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2817-Non-CO2-methods

This is the original Walstad method. I am not suggesting use this as I think it has a few myths in it but we can use some aspects in Tom's method.
http://theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method

As for cost. Unless something equipmentwise needs replacing in my tank I spend about £15 a year on my tank. Thats fish food :) I make more in plant sales than that. So my tank actually turns a profit over a year :)

Now there will be some expense. Not large, not high prices but we need some substrate material and then we are go go go :) The fish can go in a container for 24 hours with a blanket around them while you do it. I have done that many times when I was rescaping regularly.

After you complete the simple substrate part then you can return all you have as was. Plants cleaned, hardware and scape cleaned, up to temp and fish in. Barring problems you won't be doing another water change for a long long time.

If you really want to go for it this is quite good. You can take a read of it and decide :) I didn't use this as I already had 2 year old Tropica which was doing the same thing really.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/library/52554-how-mineralized-soil-substrate-aaron-talbot.html

That is a little down the road. Let me know when you've read the articles

AC
 
Brilliant stuff! I'm getting there. What has been drilled in so far though is:

' Without soil, plants don't grow well enough to do "their job" ' [http://theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method]

I'm loving reading about the Calvin cycle again :drool: :lol:

Seriously though, this method is ... so me!
I am in preference of a strong, healthy grown plant to a forced, fast grown, CO2 (steroid) injected freak of a plant :lol:

Right. I am now decided after reading some of your links (i will be reading much more!). I need to start from scratch. I need to consider my fish first though, and its not going to be easy :no:
 
Forget the fish and concentrate on the method. If you set it up correctly the fish are out of the tank less than 24 hours.


Then a bit of monitoring/testing for a couple of weeks, then reach out pick up fish food, add some put it away, legs out, hands behind head. Nothing more to do.

AC
 
Forget the fish and concentrate on the method. If you set it up correctly the fish are out of the tank less than 24 hours.


Then a bit of monitoring/testing for a couple of weeks, then reach out pick up fish food, add some put it away, legs out, hands behind head. Nothing more to do.

AC

i did get away with changing over from gravel to sand with my current fish, so the same principle follows i suppose.. any tips on the exact soil mix to use? sounds better to mineralise it / leave it to oxidise etc gonna invest in a massive test kit to find out exactly what my tap water is like first!
 
Use the J Arthur Bowers JI3. Someone I know used to cough...cough. In fact on this same sofa I am alone on ;)lol work there. In fact used to control the raw materials coming onto site. Therefore I know what is in it.

Try the mineralised next summer on a smaller tank. lol unless you want it in your house laid out 1cm thick over and 8ft x 8ft aquare poly sheet for a month or 2?

AC
 
So..

the only real changes i have made is to remove the large air curtain i had set up, and add a spray bar that just ripples the surface.

i have been dosing 4ml of TPN+ each morning when i feed fish. i havent used excel.. it only seems to make algae worse(?)

add time and patience and now the new leaves amd plants do not have ANY algae at all!!! i am just slowly trimming and removing the old algae covered leaves now.

i find it shocking that the most effective solution has been to remove airation and alter the flow! such a cheap solution :D Walstad may well be on rhe horizon.. i fancy i'll create a journal if i go ahead and set that up
 

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